A-10 Warthog's Tusks Are Being Sharpened For A High-End Fight
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A little flippant given our service members being in harms way, no? One aviator is still unaccounted for.
I'm trying to walk the line here but the message from our senior leadership is things like "total air dominance", "complete control of Iranian skies", "They have no anti-aircraft equipment. Their radar is 100% annihilated..."
https://abcnews.com/Politics/air-de...ed-american-dominance-iran/story?id=131690203
My career is in the DoD in case anyone questions my bona fides.
jeff
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My career is in SAM suppression fighter aircraft (both F-4C and F-4G Wild Weasels) in case you question my bona fides, and no, I don't consider it flippant.
But in no way am I either endorsing those statements attributed to senior leadership, nor am I minimizing the efforts of our fighter pilots and aircrew. Just pointing out the Iranian defenses are insignificant to the point of being less of a threat than high level training exercises.
But in no way am I either endorsing those statements attributed to senior leadership, nor am I minimizing the efforts of our fighter pilots and aircrew. Just pointing out the Iranian defenses are insignificant to the point of being less of a threat than high level training exercises.
I worked on Litton AT and Dalmo Victor later versions on the ALR and APR radar warning systems. Plenty of the old timers had Wild Weasel stories. Ummmm........gonads. Wow.
It’s not senior military leadership making those claims of total annihilation of Iranian air defenses. MANPADS are easy to hide and I’m sure they have lots of them bought over the years. Reports are that a lot of their SAM systems are in bunkers or mobile. But certainly they don’t want to expose what they have if they can help it.
Will be interesting to see what tactical adjustments are made in the coming days. Seems we'd been transitioning from standoff weapons (see the 800+ Tomahawks fired) and stealth platforms to more vulnerable platforms. Seems odd to be losing airframes after "this war has been won"...
jeff
jeff
Almost makes you wonder if the civilian leadership isn't listening to the military leadership.
jeff
Not to get political, but civilian leadership universally tends to exaggerate and oversimplify. It's just the nature of the beast. Defenses may be drastically reduced, but they are never totally eliminated.
Every fighter 8+ hour mission, every Navy night trap, every bomber 20+ hour mission is a remarkable feat. These guys are doing it routinely. The fact we haven't had a plethora of accidents at this ops tempo points to the quality of our maintainers, aircrew, loaders and planners.
Every fighter 8+ hour mission, every Navy night trap, every bomber 20+ hour mission is a remarkable feat. These guys are doing it routinely. The fact we haven't had a plethora of accidents at this ops tempo points to the quality of our maintainers, aircrew, loaders and planners.
Found the second F-15 pilot
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CleanSump
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Iran has shoulder, single user, antiaircraft missiles just like the Russians and US/Allies. Man-Portable Air-Defense Systems (MANPADS) include tripod mounted launchers as well as shoulder mount (like Stingers and old Redeye).
Shoulder launched missiles and Anti Aircraft Artillery (AAA or "Triple A"), shot down many aircraft during the previous Gulf Wars.
Shoulder launched missiles and Anti Aircraft Artillery (AAA or "Triple A"), shot down many aircraft during the previous Gulf Wars.
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I don't remember the source, but apparently this could have been a MANPADS that doesn't turn on a its radar until last minute. Apparently 2 of them are shot at the jet with the hope one gets through.
IDK how this works at all, but I would think there is some kind of sensor that sees a rocket motors heat come up at it, or at least a streak of smoke?
This is all very complex, but interesting at the same time.
Who knows, could have been a mechanical issue.
Russia recently sent a plane full of "medical aid" and China flew over over 30 tons of supplies as well. Could be a testing ground for their equipment.
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It wasn't mechanical issues, it was confirmed hostile fire.
Yes, the aircraft systems are complex and interesting.
MANPADS are mostly passive missiles. No radar to light the target. Reality is that a single guy shooting off his shoulder has been quite successful and proven in Iraq - they do what they are designed to do if fired in the proper window. Sometimes the stars align. Untrained illiterates have even shot simple RPGs into moving helicopters.
The helicopters hit in the current scuffle have been hit with AK-74s. You can't hightec away the basics.
Don't know what Russia and China are giving Iran, but they're not likely to risk anything sensitive they don't want the US to get ahold of. If Russia didn't use it in Ukraine, they're not going to send it where we have troops. Neither would China take the risk.
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MANPADS don’t have radar. MAN Portable Air Defense Systems - Stinger, SA-7/14, SA-16/18, etc. are all IR guided.
The range and altitude capability are limited - a man can carry only a small rocket motor, and the warhead is also fairly small, but there is no radar or EM “signature” to know that the adversary has them in the area. You simply have to be careful when you’re down and dirty in enemy territory, as they can be employed against anything if the operator gets a clear line of sight on the airplane.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K38_Igla
I’ve heard jokes about the a10.
The only aircraft to encounter bird strikes from behind.
Speed is measured with a calendar.
In all seriousness, if I was in a battle on the ground I would want an A10 in there doing there thing.
A great aircraft for a lot of years
There is always a sterilized and simplified story for the masses. Total air dominance is quite different than zero hostiles on the ground.
There is always a cat and mouse game going. Let the mouse get a little brave and his family will pop up as well.
IR signatures vary a bit, but they can be "seen".
And it is interesting we can do a search and rescue over hostile with no casualties.
IR signatures vary a bit, but they can be "seen".
And it is interesting we can do a search and rescue over hostile with no casualties.
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Indeed the tactical proficiency of our service members (and the civilians and contractors supporting them) is exceptional. Its the strategic side of things that I'm worried about.
jeff
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They used too many precision ammunition too fast. That made them fly lower and using less accurate, “dumb” ammunition.
I have seen three weeks ago F15E flying really low, and first thing that was on my mind was French Mirage that was downed in Bosnia that flew too low although pilot was warned several times about it. He was shot down by SA-7 “Strela.”
Iranians have thousands MANPADS. But there are big limits to their effectiveness. They are very dangerous as long as operators are well trained. They require patience, timing so that airplane is in right targeting envelope before battery runs out. That is biggest issue. They are wasted mostly bcs. operator fires missile as battery is nearing the end of cycle.
Iran has thousands of them.
Old SA-7’s are probably long pass their life cycle, doesn’t mean they are not working. They have very small warhead and are “tail chaser,” as seeker is not cooled. Issue is not whether it can down airplane or helicopter (especially helicopter), but that it requires good training.
SA-16, 18 and 24, “Igla,” especially SA24, is really dangerous stuff. Much stronger warhead, can shoot from any direction etc. Requires less training, longer battery cycle.
The real issue for Iranians is training. In 1999 Serbians didn’t shoot down F117 by luck with SA3 from 1962, but bcs. they were well trained. Iranians shoot down Ukrainian passenger jet with “Tor,” missile bcs. lack of training. Regimes like Iranian first and foremost train their troops to resist internal threat, popular uprising. That is where most money is going. That is why their symmetrical capabilities are thin (put on a side ballistic missiles, that is different story).
So, can they shoot down airplane? Yes. We will adjust our tactics, start flying bit higher. The real problem is going to be ground invasion, if it happens.
I have seen three weeks ago F15E flying really low, and first thing that was on my mind was French Mirage that was downed in Bosnia that flew too low although pilot was warned several times about it. He was shot down by SA-7 “Strela.”
Iranians have thousands MANPADS. But there are big limits to their effectiveness. They are very dangerous as long as operators are well trained. They require patience, timing so that airplane is in right targeting envelope before battery runs out. That is biggest issue. They are wasted mostly bcs. operator fires missile as battery is nearing the end of cycle.
Iran has thousands of them.
Old SA-7’s are probably long pass their life cycle, doesn’t mean they are not working. They have very small warhead and are “tail chaser,” as seeker is not cooled. Issue is not whether it can down airplane or helicopter (especially helicopter), but that it requires good training.
SA-16, 18 and 24, “Igla,” especially SA24, is really dangerous stuff. Much stronger warhead, can shoot from any direction etc. Requires less training, longer battery cycle.
The real issue for Iranians is training. In 1999 Serbians didn’t shoot down F117 by luck with SA3 from 1962, but bcs. they were well trained. Iranians shoot down Ukrainian passenger jet with “Tor,” missile bcs. lack of training. Regimes like Iranian first and foremost train their troops to resist internal threat, popular uprising. That is where most money is going. That is why their symmetrical capabilities are thin (put on a side ballistic missiles, that is different story).
So, can they shoot down airplane? Yes. We will adjust our tactics, start flying bit higher. The real problem is going to be ground invasion, if it happens.
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