99 Ram Van Conv....New here need help.

[camaro69327]

HI,

Thanks in advance for both the Place to ask for help and any help offered .

The Three Year Mystery !


Returning Home from a 200 mile trip (Normal oil change done just before by Me) 50 Miles or so into return trip Bright RED warning light ....CHECK GAGES!!. Good thing nobody was around as i did swerve slightly as I scanned around Finally to notice OIL Needle pointing at 0 . WHAT!! I instantly Threw it in netural and turned off the ignition. Coasted safely to the side.. Being thats its 2 a.m. and dont have my cell phone. . So I sat for a few thinking I must have Dropped a drain plug cause I Just checked the Oil level less than 50 miles back when I got gas. and it was half a quart low. so i put some in.

I exit & walk to the back and think sweet no trail. Open the hood, check the oil good ?....OH! Wait... if I have Oil and no pressure that means the Pump gave? Now what . I could sleep in the van for the night then walk to call my son and a tow truck . I decide to try starting it JUST in case it is pumping and it s the instrument cluster?? Start it and i have normal readings Ok lets drive . get about 15 miles BOOM there it is again the needle at 0 . Just slowed this time and sliped it into netural and pressure returned. OK time to Test if this is JUST a sensor or there really is no OIL pressure. as this is 2 A.M. I sat and let it idle for a few with the gage reading 0. 1 min .....minute 30....ohhh I hear ticking .... yep there it is noooooo. turn it off.

....turns out IF I let it sit for 10 mins I can drive for 10 -12 mins. so this is how i got my butt home. Lucky for me as I Bought this used off the lot and have an extended warranty!

Start it up in the morning drive to Dealer. Explain my fun the Night before to the write up guy even telling him i let it run for about a min and heard a faint tick and turned it off. after waiting I always have good pressure. Specifically said "so i doubt it's just a sensor". Leave and they call the next day "Your vans ready" Oh what was it . "the oil sending unit"

paid my $100 Ded. as i turn out the Drive the needle went to .....you Guessed it "0". Turned right back into the next Driveway pulled around to the write up desk. HEY ITS STILL DOING IT!!!....take him out side and its reading 40 PSI.

Well we cant fix it if its working. and he goes back inside & I let it idle till the Bright Red light appeared and went to get him ..Now do you see that its still doing it? I leave the van with them again.

3 days later I pick the van up after they put in a NEW oil Pump. What do you mean I have to pay you again you didn't fix it the first time ? back and forth..OK what ever. I pay another Deductible.

Drives Fantastic.....till a year later . are you kidding me I just changed the oil. I always change the oil. OCD even about the [censored] oil. Take it back... bummer are you kidding the oil pump went and NOW its out of warrenty?? you just put that in . the original was good for 8 years and about 95,000 miles and yours was good for a year and only 12,000 well they did end up replacing it again.

8 months later it did it again this time I Did a motor Flush and it went away ...that was 4 months ago. Last month when it happened I took it to an "oil Place" and had them do a flush. Cause its cold out side and my Camaro OWNES my one car garage...lol.

Last week it did it again. MY intervall is Shrinking fast this is my only way to work . MY drive to work is 20 mins long and all E-way.


The important Stuff.

99 Doge Ram 150
5.2 L

Usual brand of choice was Quaker State but last few changes were castrol. and filter was usually what was on sale...Dont beat me up to much . Teach me i will change....lol
Idle PSI 30 or so. @ speed 50-60 ish..
Full conversion HI-Top
Runs and Drives Fantastic!
Drinks about a Quart a month. No Leaks . and I don't see smoke when driving.
Just did Seafoam 1/2 can in crank case. (Can I leave this in?)

Yes have always kept up on the oil changes and filter on each one have no clue as to before I got it with 80,000 = miles on it . No I haven't even had a look into the valve cover as its under the dog house . and the filler tube is about a mile long. AS i believed till recently it was the pump but now I don't think it ever was the pump.


Any help is really gonna be appreciated.


AT one point the porter brought me the car ticking loudly with out pressure HERE its Fixed!!!! So yes there is more to this but this is the main points the Ticking that was present from the last fiasico with the dealer just went away after the last flush. sounds really good on start up now. but the little puff of blue smoke is still there.

 

[tomcat27]

very common problem with all of the dodge magnum engines. (3.9, 5.2 - maybe more) the oil sludges a little and clogs the smaller than normal pickup screen with its smaller than normal holes. also, from what I have heard, the oil pickup is stuck in a corner of the pan with baffles around it. actually, the baffle part I am not sure on - but I have two friends who have lost multiple oil pumps and eventually the motor. use a synthetic oil, change it frequently - add some MMO. the oil pump itself is not intrincicly bad, but it gets starved for oil due to the oil pickup screen that clogs easily. the whole thing is too bad, since the 5.2 engine has a long history of being a very durable engine.

 

[tomcat27]

btw - I have a 98 - and I do a 5k OCI with M1 Extended Life. I am still nervous about it and wish it was easier to pull the oil pan just to look - I tow a 6000lb boat with mine with the dual A/C running in July heat with the van fully loaded - so I am sure that I heat up the motor and stress the oil.

I agree, its a great running rig, but I will always be nervous about sludging.

 

[JimPghPA]

Just a thought, do not know for sure that this is you problem, but if the return paths for the oil are plugged up then there would be 0 oil pressure when too much oil gets trapped above.

One clue might be the new oil being thicker would return slower.

Another clue is the one quart per month usage. If the oil does not return well you usually have more getting by the valves and being burnt off.

One way to find out if this is happening would be to measure the oil level with the dip stick while the oil pressure is at 0 with the engine running.

Also you could probably do oil level checks every minute after you shut off the engine after a 0 oil pressure problem. You would see the level increasing each minute as the oil slowly returned.

If this is the problem, you could try some type of oil pathway flush, but a flush on an engine with a lot of crud is taking the chance of getting crud into bearing surfaces and damaging the engine. If you do a oil path way flush get that stuff out as soon as the required run time/millage is done.


Or go with a high detergent thin oil to provide the required return flow and improve engine oil passage cleaning.

These are just good guesses, but good guesses are probably all anyone can come up with unless (to put it in engineering terms, you improve the signal to noise ratio) ie. pull apart the engine and examine what is going on.

Some engines are known to have the oil return paths ways clog up. I do not know if Dodge 1999 5.2L is one of them. Maybe someone who knows the Dodge 1999 5.2L could tell you. Sometimes on engines that are known to have the oil return passages clog up all you have to do is to run a wire down the passages to ream them out. Most good engine rebuild shops enlarge these passages when they rebuild any engine known to have this type of problem. I know the back of some chevy engines had that problem. Some engines have front passages clog. I do not know if the passages you would have to access are accessible below the valve cover or if you would have to remove the intake manifold. On the chevy you could get to them by removing the valve cover.

If it were mine and I did not want to put money into it and I verified that the oil was getting trapped above by measuring the dip stick when the engine is running with 0 pressure, I would then consider the oil pump good and run a much thinner oil with high detergent, and change it more often.

I know thin oil burns off faster and the more oil you burn off the faster you can foul plugs. But if the high detergent opens up the passages then you could go to a high detergent of the usual thickness, and you would not have the problem.

 

[tomcat27]

do a google search on dodge 5.2l sludge. a friend of mine toasted the engine in his 99 durango at only 45k miles. yes, he was using quaker state. I dont know what OCI, but knowing him he stretched it.

 

[JimPghPA]

Another possible cause, piston blow by gas going back up oil drain passages reaches a rate that prevents oil from draining back down fast enough. If this is the problem the fix would be to hone cylinders and put in new pistons and rings. A quick cheap temporary fix would be to provide an alternative path for the excess crank case gas to vent. If this is the problem the first (very short term temporary) fix would be to simply leave the dip stick out about one inch so the dip stick port increases crank case venting. An alterative fix would be to some-how run a hose of about 3/4 inch ID from the upper portion of the crank case (on engines that have wide paths for oil return at the lifter area there might be a metal cover and this new vent path could be added up there) to a PVC valve and then to the air cleaner. You want to provide extra venting of the crank-case without allowing water to have any path to this vent if the engine were ever to get a good splash from the vehicle hitting a large puddle, or driving in a real bad rain storm.

My grandmothers 64 rambler had so much blow by that it would foul the air-cleaner. The fix for such vehicles is a hose that vets downward to prevent rain from getting in.

 

[camaro69327]

Originally Posted By: tomcat27
very common problem with all of the dodge magnum engines. (3.9, 5.2 - maybe more) the oil sludges a little and clogs the smaller than normal pickup screen with its smaller than normal holes. also, from what I have heard, the oil pickup is stuck in a corner of the pan with baffles around it. actually, the baffle part I am not sure on - but I have two friends who have lost multiple oil pumps and eventually the motor. use a synthetic oil, change it frequently - add some MMO. the oil pump itself is not intrincicly bad, but it gets starved for oil due to the oil pickup screen that clogs easily. the whole thing is too bad, since the 5.2 engine has a long history of being a very durable engine.


Thanks ,

Synthetic oil.?...Like I said ...New here and before this ..To me oil was just that OIL....lol...as in all the same ...

So IF I have to pull the pan ...anyone know if there is an after market alternative (Larger Pump ,Tube, Screen??

 

[camaro69327]

Originally Posted By: tomcat27
btw - I have a 98 - and I do a 5k OCI with M1 Extended Life. I am still nervous about it and wish it was easier to pull the oil pan just to look - I tow a 6000lb boat with mine with the dual A/C running in July heat with the van fully loaded - so I am sure that I heat up the motor and stress the oil.

I agree, its a great running rig, but I will always be nervous about sludging.



I Replaced a rusted out pan on a Van...SO not fun to do.
And Yes Runs Great Just need to Get it Stable and Trustworthy again..

 

[camaro69327]

Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
Just a thought, do not know for sure that this is you problem, but if the return paths for the oil are plugged up then there would be 0 oil pressure when too much oil gets trapped above.

One clue might be the new oil being thicker would return slower.

Another clue is the one quart per month usage. If the oil does not return well you usually have more getting by the valves and being burnt off.

One way to find out if this is happening would be to measure the oil level with the dip stick while the oil pressure is at 0 with the engine running.

Also you could probably do oil level checks every minute after you shut off the engine after a 0 oil pressure problem. You would see the level increasing each minute as the oil slowly returned.

If this is the problem, you could try some type of oil pathway flush, but a flush on an engine with a lot of crud is taking the chance of getting crud into bearing surfaces and damaging the engine. If you do a oil path way flush get that stuff out as soon as the required run time/millage is done.


Or go with a high detergent thin oil to provide the required return flow and improve engine oil passage cleaning.

These are just good guesses, but good guesses are probably all anyone can come up with unless (to put it in engineering terms, you improve the signal to noise ratio) ie. pull apart the engine and examine what is going on.

Some engines are known to have the oil return paths ways clog up. I do not know if Dodge 1999 5.2L is one of them. Maybe someone who knows the Dodge 1999 5.2L could tell you. Sometimes on engines that are known to have the oil return passages clog up all you have to do is to run a wire down the passages to ream them out. Most good engine rebuild shops enlarge these passages when they rebuild any engine known to have this type of problem. I know the back of some chevy engines had that problem. Some engines have front passages clog. I do not know if the passages you would have to access are accessible below the valve cover or if you would have to remove the intake manifold. On the chevy you could get to them by removing the valve cover.

If it were mine and I did not want to put money into it and I verified that the oil was getting trapped above by measuring the dip stick when the engine is running with 0 pressure, I would then consider the oil pump good and run a much thinner oil with high detergent, and change it more often.

I know thin oil burns off faster and the more oil you burn off the faster you can foul plugs. But if the high detergent opens up the passages then you could go to a high detergent of the usual thickness, and you would not have the problem.



Thanks.

The Bold section...Very Good thought IF it ever goes to 0 again I will do this

Second Bold.....What IS a high Det Oil and what would be thinner... 5 w 30 is what it calls for and what i have always used?


Quote:
Or go with a high detergent thin oil to provide the required return flow and improve engine oil passage cleaning.
again sorry Guys ....What would that Be cause this sounds Good....lol

And its NOT that i dont want to spend the money....IF i had the money now I would so just Drop in a Crate motor and be done with it. I really like this Van and When i do have the money I will put in a new motor...Making sure of course to put in some kind of Racing pump with an over sized tube and Screen....lol

 

[camaro69327]

OK Did a little Googling..

ATF?
Desiel Oil??
Mobil 1 Synth? IF good what do i need to Do to Switch to a Synth??


Sorry to be a pain with all the Posts and Questions...
Thanks again.

P.S. Should i be editing my one post over and over?.....lol\

OR

Castrol GTX HiGH Milage...This I have used in the past in this motor....

 

[JimPghPA]

Pennzoil Platinum, or for even higher detergent the new Pennzoil Ultra if you can find it.

Try some Seafoam. Works excellent for that purpose. You add about 1.5 oz of Seafoam p/qt of oil in the crankcase( no need to do an OOC -- just add the Seafoam ). Drive for a couple hundred miles or so.

 

[camaro69327]

Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
Pennzoil Platinum, or for even higher detergent the new Pennzoil Ultra if you can find it.

Try some Seafoam. Works excellent for that purpose. You add about 1.5 oz of Seafoam p/qt of oil in the crankcase( no need to do an OOC -- just add the Seafoam ). Drive for a couple hundred miles or so.

Thanks Jim,
in my first post I mention Seafoam. (easy to miss} I have it in now (Seafoam). I picked up some valve cover gaskets yesterday and next weekend im gonna pull them when I change out the oil thats in it .


What Brand Filter Should I Get ? (Go to Dealer and let them do it?


Manf recomands 5 w 30

Would 5 w 20 harm anything . but drain back faster?


On a Side note When the oil change place did there thing last monday the guy says your radiator cap is weak and its low in the reservoir . so he put on a new cap and filled it up .

Leaving work Thursday I didn't get a Mile and the temp gage was headed OFF the chart. shut it down before red zone.

Get out look around no steam no leaks nada. upper rad hose if hot and solid as a rock. half cracked cap and it erupted (Reclosed it) After waiting I opened the cap and saw that the core was exposed and the reservoir is empty. As I was was geting in the Van I Noticed there is ANTIFREEZE on the ground coming from my REAR tire. ???? LOL IT has rear heater and AC It was leaking from clear tube running down from underbody As temp was down to a low level again I left it locked but loose. and while watching temp drove 2 blocks to a oil change place i knew was close. We put antifreeze in and I could drive . next day I stop at rad place I have used before (Great guy) let me do the work and charged me $36 .(This included a gal of anti where half of the gall went it to top it up. he then filled it with water and gave me the 50/50 . We by-passed the rear hoses for now. problem solved...lol .

 

[JimPghPA]

All of this about your vehicle is just a best educated guess. Until you open it up who really knows what you are dealing with?

A thinner oil (especially in the winter) should not cause any damage, but you probably will have more leakage, and more burn off and may foul your plugs quicker. It really is a guessing game about what would be best for your engine without opening things up and seeing what is really going on. One of the things you are up against is:

The oil pump has a output pressure limit. Yes a thinner oil will gravity drain back down faster. But at the same time at the high RPM range thinner oil will flow from the pump up through the engine easier and cause less backpressure. Normally at high RPM's the oil pump output pressure limit opens the amount required to limit the pressure. This opening actually limits the flow rate up through the engine. At high RPM's a thin oil will flow up through the engine with less restriction, and thus allow more flow and better oil cooling of the engines oil cooled parts. This is why Formula 1 cars and other high RPM race engines use a very thin oil.

So while a thinner oil will drain back down better there is a slight chance that improvement would be negated and even go in the other direction, especially at high RPM's.

A multi weight will flow back down better than a mono weight when the engine is cold.

Thinner oil will also do a better job of allowing build up to absorbed back into the oil to help in cleaning the oil passages.

It is tough when you do not know the history of the vehicle for the first 80K miles.

BTW Purolator PureOne is the best filter.

Good luck.

 

[JimPghPA]

Some other oil flushes are:

Lubro Moly Pro-Line Engine Flush

MMO

 

[rd_blair]

Hi camaro69327

Just a thought. Maybe you have a lot of crud in the valley under the intake. I have the intake on my engine (1999 5.2L) apart right now because of a bad bellypan gasket. You would not believe the crud I found. Buildup there could slow up the oil comeing back to the oil pan. It could also be the reason why it takes less time for your problem to show up each time. I think It maybe working its way down to your oil pickup from valley or above and not developing at the oil pickup. The screen is fine on the oil pickup and it is easily blocked. Was the pickup changed or cleaned each time the oil pump was changed?

I flushed my motor before I took it apart. It didn't look like it even touched the stuff in the valley.

Read a lot about this oil presure problem on the net. These 5.2L can be real dirty engines.

I liked your post because of the history you provided. I just joined this forum so I could respond to you. I hope I made my thought clear to you. Wish you luck and hope to hear the outcome.