97 M3 and 5w40?
- Thread starter Nephets
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well ive got about 500 miles on the rotella... she is acting awesome so far!
BMW magically changed to LL-98 when they assumed the roll of paying for maintenance for 4 years and 50K miles. Previous to that they could not change the oil often enough and it was typically a 5W-30 oil as spec'ed in the manual. I have both a 97 and 98 M3 and the change was more economic than anything else. The engine was perfectly happy with dino oil before this. My new E93 335 BMW does use 5W-30 BMW oil but I now use GC 5W-30.
I am old school and do change my oil in all 3 of my BMWs at no more than 7500 miles. I guess it works my BMW M3 convertible has 280K miles on it with no leaks or burning oil. This M3 was treated to dino oil exclusively for 12 years and worked fine. Pulled the head to see how the engine looked. Carbon yes but valves were fine, guides are fine just put new springs in and polished out some light scoring on the cams. BMW builds a [censored] of an engine...
I am old school and do change my oil in all 3 of my BMWs at no more than 7500 miles. I guess it works my BMW M3 convertible has 280K miles on it with no leaks or burning oil. This M3 was treated to dino oil exclusively for 12 years and worked fine. Pulled the head to see how the engine looked. Carbon yes but valves were fine, guides are fine just put new springs in and polished out some light scoring on the cams. BMW builds a [censored] of an engine...
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+1 we see multiple M3s with over 200k on them, one older 528 has almost 400k! My partner drives an 91 M5 with 198k on it and no issues whatsoever. Cant beat the straight sixes, without Vanos theyre even better.
I run nothing but RT6 in the M50 based engines here in the SE. Great oil that doens't break down with heat, even in the 400+ whp turbo cars on track in the late summer extreme heat.
Vanos is nothing but an oil-driven vane pump that moves the intake camshaft. Vanos provides more low-end torque, and more overall power - area under the curve, or total power if you like, which is what actually wins races, not peak hp. And if you're looking at an M50 NV vs an M50 vanos (or S52, or w/e vanos m50 based engine) - significant differences. The vanos motors have smaller diameter valve stems, therebye flowing more air. Softer valve springs, since the cams don't need to be quite as aggressive (factory at least) resulting in less parasitic losses. The whole 'vanos is evil' is such uneducated [censored] by engine builders who don't understand how variable cam timing can be so incredibly advantagious, for both power and economy.
Vanos is nothing but an oil-driven vane pump that moves the intake camshaft. Vanos provides more low-end torque, and more overall power - area under the curve, or total power if you like, which is what actually wins races, not peak hp. And if you're looking at an M50 NV vs an M50 vanos (or S52, or w/e vanos m50 based engine) - significant differences. The vanos motors have smaller diameter valve stems, therebye flowing more air. Softer valve springs, since the cams don't need to be quite as aggressive (factory at least) resulting in less parasitic losses. The whole 'vanos is evil' is such uneducated [censored] by engine builders who don't understand how variable cam timing can be so incredibly advantagious, for both power and economy.
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Originally Posted By: KenO
I run nothing but RT6 in the M50 based engines here in the SE. Great oil that doens't break down with heat, even in the 400+ whp turbo cars on track in the late summer extreme heat.
Vanos is nothing but an oil-driven vane pump that moves the intake camshaft. Vanos provides more low-end torque, and more overall power - area under the curve, or total power if you like, which is what actually wins races, not peak hp. And if you're looking at an M50 NV vs an M50 vanos (or S52, or w/e vanos m50 based engine) - significant differences. The vanos motors have smaller diameter valve stems, therebye flowing more air. Softer valve springs, since the cams don't need to be quite as aggressive (factory at least) resulting in less parasitic losses. The whole 'vanos is evil' is such uneducated [censored] by engine builders who don't understand how variable cam timing can be so incredibly advantagious, for both power and economy.
I think he was speaking from a maintenance perspective. IIRC the rubber seals on the earlier units were known to fail fairly early.
I run nothing but RT6 in the M50 based engines here in the SE. Great oil that doens't break down with heat, even in the 400+ whp turbo cars on track in the late summer extreme heat.
Vanos is nothing but an oil-driven vane pump that moves the intake camshaft. Vanos provides more low-end torque, and more overall power - area under the curve, or total power if you like, which is what actually wins races, not peak hp. And if you're looking at an M50 NV vs an M50 vanos (or S52, or w/e vanos m50 based engine) - significant differences. The vanos motors have smaller diameter valve stems, therebye flowing more air. Softer valve springs, since the cams don't need to be quite as aggressive (factory at least) resulting in less parasitic losses. The whole 'vanos is evil' is such uneducated [censored] by engine builders who don't understand how variable cam timing can be so incredibly advantagious, for both power and economy.
I think he was speaking from a maintenance perspective. IIRC the rubber seals on the earlier units were known to fail fairly early.
Originally Posted By: Nephets
I will be seeking out M1 0w40 for my next OCI. I'm sure I can find it, I just went to 5 stores and realized it was no where to be found in quarts or the big jugs. Maybe if I go to the 'Richey' part of town or the upscale suburbs, I might be able to find it next time.
Did you try going to SUPER Wal-marts? The smaller Wal-Mart by my house has a pretty limited selection and doesn't carry M1 0W-40, but they have it (in quart size) at both Super Wal-Marts I've been to. I've also seen it at every AutoZone, Advance Auto, O'reilly, and Pep Boys I went to (except they want almost $9/qt instead of $6.47 at Wally's). This is in Denver-area.
Just put the M1 0W-40 in my 97 M3 for the first time, and it's made a huge difference. I used to run M1 5W-30, 10W-30, or 10W-40, sometimes even the High Mileage, but it never ran as good as it does on the 0W-40, and startups have become much smoother and quieter. How many miles on your M3? I've got 152k now, bought it in 2003 with 105k (only way I could afford it at the time).
I will be seeking out M1 0w40 for my next OCI. I'm sure I can find it, I just went to 5 stores and realized it was no where to be found in quarts or the big jugs. Maybe if I go to the 'Richey' part of town or the upscale suburbs, I might be able to find it next time.
Did you try going to SUPER Wal-marts? The smaller Wal-Mart by my house has a pretty limited selection and doesn't carry M1 0W-40, but they have it (in quart size) at both Super Wal-Marts I've been to. I've also seen it at every AutoZone, Advance Auto, O'reilly, and Pep Boys I went to (except they want almost $9/qt instead of $6.47 at Wally's). This is in Denver-area.
Just put the M1 0W-40 in my 97 M3 for the first time, and it's made a huge difference. I used to run M1 5W-30, 10W-30, or 10W-40, sometimes even the High Mileage, but it never ran as good as it does on the 0W-40, and startups have become much smoother and quieter. How many miles on your M3? I've got 152k now, bought it in 2003 with 105k (only way I could afford it at the time).
For what it's worth, maybe not much, I just did a write up of my experiences with various oils in my BMWs (past and present) including a very heavily modified E46 328Ci putting down well over 400rwhp with around 76k miles, an E46 325i used as a daily driver with moderate mods and 150k on the clock, and an E38 740i (4.4l V8, only A/T BMW I have) with almost 100k.
I have had sludging issues with BMW 5w30, GC 5w30, M1 0w40/5w40. Amsoil was unimpressive to me. The only oils that have helped clean and have kept clean my engines have been Royal Purple 5w30/40 and Redline 5w30/40. I very rarely use oil additives, but do use Redline SI-1 and Techron in the tank, and I have had excellent experiences and results with, Seafoam (throttle body, brake booster line, PCV, oil for 30-60miles, and gas tank), confirmed via boroscope.
IMO, M1 is NOT quality, its name.
I have had sludging issues with BMW 5w30, GC 5w30, M1 0w40/5w40. Amsoil was unimpressive to me. The only oils that have helped clean and have kept clean my engines have been Royal Purple 5w30/40 and Redline 5w30/40. I very rarely use oil additives, but do use Redline SI-1 and Techron in the tank, and I have had excellent experiences and results with, Seafoam (throttle body, brake booster line, PCV, oil for 30-60miles, and gas tank), confirmed via boroscope.
IMO, M1 is NOT quality, its name.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: nleksan
For what it's worth, maybe not much, I just did a write up of my experiences with various oils in my BMWs (past and present) including a very heavily modified E46 328Ci putting down well over 400rwhp with around 76k miles, an E46 325i used as a daily driver with moderate mods and 150k on the clock, and an E38 740i (4.4l V8, only A/T BMW I have) with almost 100k.
I have had sludging issues with BMW 5w30, GC 5w30, M1 0w40/5w40. Amsoil was unimpressive to me. The only oils that have helped clean and have kept clean my engines have been Royal Purple 5w30/40 and Redline 5w30/40. I very rarely use oil additives, but do use Redline SI-1 and Techron in the tank, and I have had excellent experiences and results with, Seafoam (throttle body, brake booster line, PCV, oil for 30-60miles, and gas tank), confirmed via boroscope.
IMO, M1 is NOT quality, its name.
And you are entitled that opinion sir
Myself, and many others, have had great experience with M1 keeping our engines clean. I've posted pics of my one 302 on here before that has 332,000Km's on it and is as clean as a whistle inside, I've only used M1 in it.
I'm currently using their 0w40 in my S62.
For what it's worth, maybe not much, I just did a write up of my experiences with various oils in my BMWs (past and present) including a very heavily modified E46 328Ci putting down well over 400rwhp with around 76k miles, an E46 325i used as a daily driver with moderate mods and 150k on the clock, and an E38 740i (4.4l V8, only A/T BMW I have) with almost 100k.
I have had sludging issues with BMW 5w30, GC 5w30, M1 0w40/5w40. Amsoil was unimpressive to me. The only oils that have helped clean and have kept clean my engines have been Royal Purple 5w30/40 and Redline 5w30/40. I very rarely use oil additives, but do use Redline SI-1 and Techron in the tank, and I have had excellent experiences and results with, Seafoam (throttle body, brake booster line, PCV, oil for 30-60miles, and gas tank), confirmed via boroscope.
IMO, M1 is NOT quality, its name.
And you are entitled that opinion sir
Myself, and many others, have had great experience with M1 keeping our engines clean. I've posted pics of my one 302 on here before that has 332,000Km's on it and is as clean as a whistle inside, I've only used M1 in it.
I'm currently using their 0w40 in my S62.
Oh I absoluty agree, and it is simply my opinion based on my experiences. Just as some people would see an M3 or M5 as a maintenance nightmare and be happier in a Toyota, so goes it with the oils we choose to use in said cars. Some are undoubtedly better than others, but once you get into the boutique oils, it's rather like arguing the merits of a Ferrari vs a Lamborghini (and I am aware Ferraris come filled with Mobile One).
However, although I can only give my opinions and experiences, which are nothing more than anecdotes, I do try my best to back them up; to.give my reasoning for my preferences. It is in this way that I feel i can best contribute to what is essentially the world's oil Wikipedia.
Sincerely,
nleksan
However, although I can only give my opinions and experiences, which are nothing more than anecdotes, I do try my best to back them up; to.give my reasoning for my preferences. It is in this way that I feel i can best contribute to what is essentially the world's oil Wikipedia.
Sincerely,
nleksan
Originally Posted By: Nephets
well ive got about 500 miles on the rotella... she is acting awesome so far!
That's great but the 5W-40 T6 (HTHSV 4.0cP, 169 VI)) is heavier than necessary for the M52 engine particularly for winter use. Back in the day the spec' oil for winter (ambient temp's up to 50F) was an energy conserving 5W-30.
As others have suggested M1 0W-40 is an excellent year round use oil and is not that much heavier on start-up to a 5W-30. If you can't get M1 0W-40, other options are BMW 5W-30, GC 0W-30, RP 0W-40, PU 5W-40 and Castrol Syntec 5W-40 (although GC is preferred).
well ive got about 500 miles on the rotella... she is acting awesome so far!
That's great but the 5W-40 T6 (HTHSV 4.0cP, 169 VI)) is heavier than necessary for the M52 engine particularly for winter use. Back in the day the spec' oil for winter (ambient temp's up to 50F) was an energy conserving 5W-30.
As others have suggested M1 0W-40 is an excellent year round use oil and is not that much heavier on start-up to a 5W-30. If you can't get M1 0W-40, other options are BMW 5W-30, GC 0W-30, RP 0W-40, PU 5W-40 and Castrol Syntec 5W-40 (although GC is preferred).
Originally Posted By: nleksan
(and I am aware Ferraris come filled with Mobile One).
Bite your tongue! Ferrari are Shell sponsored and only come filled with Shell products. Engine oil is PU 5W-40 (HTHSV 3.68cP, 179 VI).
(and I am aware Ferraris come filled with Mobile One).
Bite your tongue! Ferrari are Shell sponsored and only come filled with Shell products. Engine oil is PU 5W-40 (HTHSV 3.68cP, 179 VI).
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: nleksan
Oh I absoluty agree, and it is simply my opinion based on my experiences. Just as some people would see an M3 or M5 as a maintenance nightmare and be happier in a Toyota, so goes it with the oils we choose to use in said cars. Some are undoubtedly better than others, but once you get into the boutique oils, it's rather like arguing the merits of a Ferrari vs a Lamborghini (and I am aware Ferraris come filled with Mobile One).
However, although I can only give my opinions and experiences, which are nothing more than anecdotes, I do try my best to back them up; to.give my reasoning for my preferences. It is in this way that I feel i can best contribute to what is essentially the world's oil Wikipedia.
Sincerely,
nleksan
And that's just fine! My experiences with Redline have been good, Royal Purple, not as good, and Mobil 1 good.
And I agree with your sentiments regarding the M5/M3 thing. I've been nothing but pleased with my M5 ownership experience thus far, even though it has needed a few parts, the satisfaction of driving it, well, you already know.
And I respect the effort you've taken to back up what you've posted
I've got 15+ years experience with Mobil 1 in a host of Ford apps with results similar to yours with Redline.
Oh I absoluty agree, and it is simply my opinion based on my experiences. Just as some people would see an M3 or M5 as a maintenance nightmare and be happier in a Toyota, so goes it with the oils we choose to use in said cars. Some are undoubtedly better than others, but once you get into the boutique oils, it's rather like arguing the merits of a Ferrari vs a Lamborghini (and I am aware Ferraris come filled with Mobile One).
However, although I can only give my opinions and experiences, which are nothing more than anecdotes, I do try my best to back them up; to.give my reasoning for my preferences. It is in this way that I feel i can best contribute to what is essentially the world's oil Wikipedia.
Sincerely,
nleksan
And that's just fine! My experiences with Redline have been good, Royal Purple, not as good, and Mobil 1 good.
And I agree with your sentiments regarding the M5/M3 thing. I've been nothing but pleased with my M5 ownership experience thus far, even though it has needed a few parts, the satisfaction of driving it, well, you already know.
And I respect the effort you've taken to back up what you've posted
I've got 15+ years experience with Mobil 1 in a host of Ford apps with results similar to yours with Redline.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: nleksan
Oh I absoluty agree, and it is simply my opinion based on my experiences. Just as some people would see an M3 or M5 as a maintenance nightmare and be happier in a Toyota, so goes it with the oils we choose to use in said cars. Some are undoubtedly better than others, but once you get into the boutique oils, it's rather like arguing the merits of a Ferrari vs a Lamborghini (and I am aware Ferraris come filled with Mobile One).
However, although I can only give my opinions and experiences, which are nothing more than anecdotes, I do try my best to back them up; to.give my reasoning for my preferences. It is in this way that I feel i can best contribute to what is essentially the world's oil Wikipedia.
Sincerely,
nleksan
And that's just fine! My experiences with Redline have been good, Royal Purple, not as good, and Mobil 1 good.
And I agree with your sentiments regarding the M5/M3 thing. I've been nothing but pleased with my M5 ownership experience thus far, even though it has needed a few parts, the satisfaction of driving it, well, you already know.
And I respect the effort you've taken to back up what you've posted
I've got 15+ years experience with Mobil 1 in a host of Ford apps with results similar to yours with Redline.
Amen to that.
And my bad on the Ferrari... I slapped myself for that, I know better! :-$
Originally Posted By: nleksan
Oh I absoluty agree, and it is simply my opinion based on my experiences. Just as some people would see an M3 or M5 as a maintenance nightmare and be happier in a Toyota, so goes it with the oils we choose to use in said cars. Some are undoubtedly better than others, but once you get into the boutique oils, it's rather like arguing the merits of a Ferrari vs a Lamborghini (and I am aware Ferraris come filled with Mobile One).
However, although I can only give my opinions and experiences, which are nothing more than anecdotes, I do try my best to back them up; to.give my reasoning for my preferences. It is in this way that I feel i can best contribute to what is essentially the world's oil Wikipedia.
Sincerely,
nleksan
And that's just fine! My experiences with Redline have been good, Royal Purple, not as good, and Mobil 1 good.
And I agree with your sentiments regarding the M5/M3 thing. I've been nothing but pleased with my M5 ownership experience thus far, even though it has needed a few parts, the satisfaction of driving it, well, you already know.
And I respect the effort you've taken to back up what you've posted
I've got 15+ years experience with Mobil 1 in a host of Ford apps with results similar to yours with Redline.
Amen to that.
And my bad on the Ferrari... I slapped myself for that, I know better! :-$
Hi,
Nephets - M1 0W-40 is a great lubricant to use in the M52/S52 engine families when used within the correct ambient temp range
I live in the Tropics (winter low 15C-summer high near 40C and very high humidity) and used M1 0W-40 in my Z3 2.8 (M52) for nearly three years
Delvac 1 5W-40 was a little quieter at startup but oil flow is important in Vanos engines (hence lubrication system modifications over time)so M1 0W-40 was my choice
Prior to selling it I did a "cleanliness check" of the valve gear and it was perfectly clean and oil consumption was zero between OCIs
Nephets - M1 0W-40 is a great lubricant to use in the M52/S52 engine families when used within the correct ambient temp range
I live in the Tropics (winter low 15C-summer high near 40C and very high humidity) and used M1 0W-40 in my Z3 2.8 (M52) for nearly three years
Delvac 1 5W-40 was a little quieter at startup but oil flow is important in Vanos engines (hence lubrication system modifications over time)so M1 0W-40 was my choice
Prior to selling it I did a "cleanliness check" of the valve gear and it was perfectly clean and oil consumption was zero between OCIs
Originally Posted By: nleksan
Some are undoubtedly better than others, but once you get into the boutique oils, it's rather like arguing the merits of a Ferrari vs a Lamborghini (and I am aware Ferraris come filled with Mobile One).
I really can't speak to your experience, but there is one thing that should be noted about boutique oils, particularly those that are not actually certified to the most current ACEA, API, ILSAC, or manufacturers' specifications. A certain boutique oil may excel at one or more criteria, but be less than stellar on others.
I'm a bit of an RP fan, so I'll pick on RP here to avoid simple brand slamming. It is often claimed that RP does a great job cleaning. It is also claimed that it isn't the most shear resistant. I am aware that both claims are rather anecdotal, but that's what we are dealing with.
The point is that all oils are compromises. If a company claims an oil to be sufficient for a certain specification, yet actually lacks it, there are a couple possible reasons. The company may not feel the cost justifies the expense. I'm sure RP is not in a rush to certify its 0w-40 to the latest ACEA, BMW, VW/Audi, and Benz specifications. That can't be cheap, and probably isn't prudent given their market share. Also, note that RP intentionally did not get the latest API/ILSAC certifications until lately, simply because their Synerlec package could not meet API/ILSAC specifications. Again, it's a compromise.
That's not to say the something like RP 0w-40 cannot do the job where M1 0w-40 is correctly certified for the vehicle. If I were driving such a vehicle out of warranty, RP 0w-40 is at a more reasonable price for me than the M1 0w-40. Under warranty, however, I'd likely splurge for the extra few cents per litre.
Some are undoubtedly better than others, but once you get into the boutique oils, it's rather like arguing the merits of a Ferrari vs a Lamborghini (and I am aware Ferraris come filled with Mobile One).
I really can't speak to your experience, but there is one thing that should be noted about boutique oils, particularly those that are not actually certified to the most current ACEA, API, ILSAC, or manufacturers' specifications. A certain boutique oil may excel at one or more criteria, but be less than stellar on others.
I'm a bit of an RP fan, so I'll pick on RP here to avoid simple brand slamming. It is often claimed that RP does a great job cleaning. It is also claimed that it isn't the most shear resistant. I am aware that both claims are rather anecdotal, but that's what we are dealing with.
The point is that all oils are compromises. If a company claims an oil to be sufficient for a certain specification, yet actually lacks it, there are a couple possible reasons. The company may not feel the cost justifies the expense. I'm sure RP is not in a rush to certify its 0w-40 to the latest ACEA, BMW, VW/Audi, and Benz specifications. That can't be cheap, and probably isn't prudent given their market share. Also, note that RP intentionally did not get the latest API/ILSAC certifications until lately, simply because their Synerlec package could not meet API/ILSAC specifications. Again, it's a compromise.
That's not to say the something like RP 0w-40 cannot do the job where M1 0w-40 is correctly certified for the vehicle. If I were driving such a vehicle out of warranty, RP 0w-40 is at a more reasonable price for me than the M1 0w-40. Under warranty, however, I'd likely splurge for the extra few cents per litre.
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