97 Honda Civic, Amsoil SSO 0W-30, 7.5k miles

[CompSyn]

Vehicle----------1997 Honda Civic EX,
Engine-----------D16Y8 1.6L VTEC, 4 cyl
Trans------------Five Speed Manual
OIL--------------3.8 qt Amsoil SSO 0W-30 (First run)
Oil additive-----None
Make-up oil----2.5qts (approx)
Oil filter---------Honda OEM #15400-PLM-A02 (Manufacturer – Honeywell)
Air filter---------K&N OE Replacement Panel Filter # #33-2104
Miles on oil/filter------7,504 (approx 10 months – April to February)
Miles on vehicle—---137,458 (owned since 41,000-miles)

UOA by Oil Analyzers Inc:

WEAR METALS (PPM)
iron-------------------11
chromium-------------0
nickel------------------0
aluminum-------------6
copper----------------8
lead-------------------33
tin---------------------0
cadmium--------------0
silver------------------0
vanadium-------------0

Contaminant Metals (PPM)
silicon------------------6
sodium----------------27
potassium-------------1

Multi-Source Metals (PPM)
titanium-----------------0
molybdenum-------------1
antimony-----------------0
manganese--------------0
lithium-------------------0
boron---------------------6

Additive Metals (PPM)
magnesium----------42
calcium-------------3540
barium-----------------0
phosphorus--------802
zinc-----------------944

fuel-----------------3.0%
visc40---------------n/a
visc100--------------9.3 (rated at 10.3 but still in grade with SAE 30 range)
water---------------- soot/solids---------- coolant---------------NO
change---------------YES
oxida-----------------38
nitr------------------26
TBN------------------3.85 (started at 13.2)

Background notes:

Prior to the OCI shown here in this UOA, Castrol GTX 5W-30 was used almost entirely during the last 100,000-miles of operation and changed every 3,000-miles/3-months.

Driving habits included mostly in town driving of less than 10-mile trips and monthly trips of 100-miles or more. Seasonal ambient temperatures range from -5F to 115F.

At approximately 130,000-miles, the beginning of this OCI, the motor oil was changed to Amsoil Signature Series SAE 0W-30 (SSO). Amsoil Engine Flush was utilized before the switch to Amsoil synthetic motor oil. Engine flush recommendations were followed carefully. After the engine flush was complete and the old motor oil was drained out, it was observed that fine black carbon like particles were suspended in the old motor oil. A new Honda OEM oil filter was installed and new Amsoil motor oil added filling the sump capacity to 3.8qts.

Other noteworthy conditions of this OCI include spark plug replacement and valve adjustment going 5,700-miles past the recommended service interval. It’s assumed that the higher lead, shearing effect, low TBN and fuel dilution is related to the slightly neglected maintenance. These maintenance items were addressed at the end of this OCI. The Honda technician that performed the valve adjustment noted the presence of a hard baked on carbon like substance on the inside surface of the valve cover. It was said that two trips to the solvent tank was unable to remove the deposits. The recommendation was to change OCIs from 3,000-miles to 1,500-miles in order to prevent further deposit build-up.

Directly after the valve adjustment was completed, the motor oil was drained, oil sampled for this UOA, new Amsoil (SSO) and Amsoil EaO 20 oil filter installed. Other new equipment includes a AMSOIL Ea Universal Air Induction Filter in the place of the K&N. This next OCI will run for 12-months and is not expected to exceed 10,000-miles. Another UOA will be performed at that time.

 

[Turk]

Nice detail on the notes.

Did it leak or use the 2.5 quarts?

 

[04SE]

If the sump holds 3.8 and you added 2.5, why change it, just keep adding.

 

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: 04SE
If the sump holds 3.8 and you added 2.5, why change it, just keep adding.


Yeah, that makes your numbers kind of useless/unreliable to use for analysis.

Did this engine use/lose this much oil with the GTX?

 

[Bill in Utah]

Let's see.. Did the flush and used all the Amsoil stuff (sounds like an ad saying Amsoil 8 times

) and the TBN was only 3.85 AFTER 2.5 quarts of make up oil in only 7.5k miles?

So much for a 15k or 30k oil in this engine. (one known for being easy on oil)

And to think some folks BLINDLY go for a 15k or further run with ANY oil without checking if it works in their engine just because is amazing...

Just like so many members who give the since its syn its ok for xx miles or 1 year...

Sorry, I care about my engine more than that.

Back to your UOA.. KEEP the K&N and save your $$. The Filter is working perfectly. Your not going to gain anything with the new filter.

Does SSO have sodium in it? Possible coolant leak here? Fuel high. Any flashpoint numbers?

Interesting UOA.. Like above, how much oil did you use with GTX?

Take care, Bill

 

[Pablo]

Let's take a deeper look at this.

Car was run 130,000 miles with 3K oil changes with GTX. He had "hard baked on carbon like substance on the inside surface of the valve cover.It was said that two trips to the solvent tank was unable to remove the deposits. " Plus, he has significant fuel and tune up issues.

Sounds like some folks aren't really thinking this through.

Take care,

Paul

 

[buster]

I agree with Pablo. Pre-existing problems and excessive blow by is causing the Tbn to drop faster than it normally would in a well maintained engine. Things should improve with further use of the SSO if all the other issues were taken care of.

 

[addyguy]

I'd bet the lead is a combination of high fuel dilution, AND left-over cleaning/flushing from the engine flush being run. The SSO is 'picking up' what wasn't drained out before. Hopefully, new plugs will help with the fuel, and all the junk is drained out.

But, if it were me, I'd use XL 5W-30 and drain/sample at 6-months, to make sure the 'junk' was out before going a full year.

BTW Bill, the sodium is from the GTX...they use a lot of it in GTX.

 

[Pablo]

Actually my suggestion(s) is/are a couple things:

Main: get all the tune up stuff in order. Then,

a) run AutoRx
and/or
b) Run ACD 10W-30/SAE30 for a few 3-4K intervals.

 

[CompSyn]

Thanks for the posts.

The car has no oil leaks. The valve seals and piston rings seem to be okay. The car does not smoke and the spark plugs were clean when I replaced them. Guess the only way to tell is to perform a leak-down test. But I don’t feel I have an issue in that department yet and don’t want to go through the time/expense. The GTX was not consumed like this first run of SSO. Wow! It was amazing how bad the spark plug electrodes were though. The Honda owner’s manual recommends changing the plugs every 30k. I procrastinated till 35k and it was way too long. Lesson learned; I’ll probably change them at 25k on the next go around.

Also, this 1.6L VTEC is a vary peaky engine. Peak horsepower is at 6600rpm, and peak torque is at 5500 and there are a lot of steep grades and hills where I live. So I’m not afraid to utilize the power band as the engineers intended. I’ll bet there is a lot of heat generated; maybe more than others. I’ve found that many folks freak out if they take their engine to 4k rpm. That said and knowing about the previous OCI schedule with the GTX, it seems as though this engine tore up the GTX in a big way. Too bad I didn’t know about UOAs back then that could prove this assertion. The mechanic solution to this is humorous. It’s kind of like the Government. If something is not working right and providing good results, the solution is to throw more money it. Similarly, if your motor oil is not providing good results at 3k/3-mo intervals, then go to 1.5k intervals. The import shop where I got the valve adjustment done sells a lot of GTX.

So at this point, I have no doubts that the SSO has failed me in any way. There is no question that this oil was badly battered during this OCI, running in a dirty engine and with some maintenance issues. This Amsoil extend drain thing would be a hard sell if one was not willing to be patient and look at the overall picture.

Question: It seems like I read that a TBN of 1 was to be considered low. Wouldn’t there still be usable life in an oil with a TBN of 3.85?

Let's see how this plays out with the next UOA.

 

[addyguy]

You're right about the TBN, you COULD have easily gone 10-12k miles on this oil, and still had a TBN above 1.

BUT, with that much fuel in the oil, you're bearing wear would have continued. Hopefully, now that the tuning issues are sorted out, your next run will be much, much better!

 

[JoeFromPA]

I'm chuckling to myself right now. 130,000 miles and you had no oil consumption (does this mean your dipstick was always topped off, or you never did a top-off between your 3000 mile OCIs?), but then you did an engine flush and used SSO and you've got consumption of 1 quart every 3000 miles all of the sudden? Sounds like you could have loosened some deposits which were keeping things sealed up in the combustion chamber.

I'm very surprised by yourcomment on sparkplugs though....30k is a conversative changing schedule. 5k over shouldn't result in that much difference in how they look. Even running these engines hard doesn't do much but keep them clean.

If your consumption keeps up, I'm going to guess that either you got rid of some "good" deposits in that engine flush, you never noticed the consumption before because you were doing 3k oil change intervals, or you are leaking but not noticing it somehow...

Alot of people (including myself) are assuming fuel is the reason for the wear....but my question is: What was your sampling technique? If you improperly sampled by idling the engine beforehand, or not doing a solid 20 minute drive beforehand, you could just have a fuel spike from that. AFAIK, you were in a fine state of tune running this oil from 28-35k on the same spark plugs and with the other things you've mentioned, and I've never heard of these engines being fuel dumpers. Quite the opposite actually: These engines, even with slightly sub-par maintenance, seem to be effortlessly easy on oil until things get really out of hand.

Joe

 

[buster]

It can be tough at times to nail down an exact cause of oil consumption. There are often several possibilities such as fuel dilution from poor fuel injector spray patterns, deposits, worn rings and an engine that wasn't aggressively broken-in. I tend to hit the 4-5k rpm range often. In a Honda, you don't even begin to see hp until that range. lol

I have the Honda 2.4L and it's always consumed some amount of oil for whatever reason. I still think I should have used a more aggressive break-in.

All of Amsoil motor oils will contain high doses of detergents and dispersants. You can see oil consumption spikes from switching oils due to chemistry differences and cleaning from existing oils. The drop in Tbn with this run of SSO suggests fuel dilution and some cleaning are taking place.

I would run Amsoil PI fuel system cleaner every 5-6k miles, then switch to a 5w40 DEO only if the consumption doesn't stop after another consecutive run with SSO.

 

[JoeFromPA]

Buster - For a comparison to your statement, and a counterpoint, my 2006 civic SI was brokenly in with a modest amount of aggressiveness. I consumed 1 quart every ~2k miles for the first 26k miles.

I switched to Series 2000 0w30 at 26k and ran it to 35.5k the first time with consumption decreasing to about 1 quart every 3-3.5k IIRC. I then started SSO for 14.5k in the first run and I'm currently at ~11k on the second run of SSO.

So I've now have AMSOIL in my car for ~35k miles....over that time, oil consumption has continually decreased with time. At 61k miles, I now burn 1 quart every ~7.5k miles.

And I am not gentle on my car except when warming her up. She gets regular exercise, including WOT runs to redline and high rpm engine braking.

Just one counterpoint example of a switch to AMSOIL and the resulting oil consumption experience.

Joe

P.s. My OEM recommendation for valve adjustment/spark plug change is 105k miles. I'm curious to see what they look like at that time....and what it runs like after the tune-up

 

[CompSyn]

Originally Posted By: buster
All of Amsoil motor oils will contain high doses of detergents and dispersants. You can see oil consumption spikes from switching oils due to chemistry differences and cleaning from existing oils. The drop in Tbn with this run of SSO suggests fuel dilution and some cleaning are taking place.

I would run Amsoil PI fuel system cleaner every 5-6k miles, then switch to a 5w40 DEO only if the consumption doesn't stop after another consecutive run with SSO.


My hunch for the cause of the oil consumption is directly in line with what buster just said. For what it's worth, I have ran two treatments of the Amsoil PI fuel system cleaner, one at the beginning of this OCI and one at the end.

Also, I asked Pablo what he though about the oil consumption in an e-mail.

This is what Pablo said:

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Because as the synthetic oil cleaned the ring lands and the crank case, the dirty oil was consumed. I'll bet it used more toward the end of the OCI.


That’s exactly right. The OCI started in April and it was mid-to-late summer when I added a quart. Then in December, I checked it again and it hardly registered on the dip stick. I topped it off with a gallon jug of SSO, so I’m guessing as to how much that was. Something like 1.5-to-2.0qts. My apologies for not having exact numbers, but Pablo is dead on, more oil was consumed towards the end of the OCI.

 

[buster]

Thanks Joe. I think it's important, especially with some oils, to use them for at least a few intervals before switching. As you have noticed, your oil consumption has gone down the longer you have used the SSO.

Of all the cars I have had, the two that were broken in hard (Dodge Ram w/Hemi & Mazda 3 w/2.3), did not consume any oil. It could have been coincidence. How soon did you start the aggressive break-in? Some say it has to be done as soon as you drive it off the lot. Usually
My driving has some impact on oil consumption and so do many of these modern engines using low tension rings. It's somewhat inherent by design.

 

[JoeFromPA]

My break-in was never truly aggressive. I went easy for probably 200 miles, with the "aggressive" part coming with WOT runs from 2000-4000 rpms. I didn't take it to 8000 rpms until either 600 or 1000 miles.

On my LGT, I started doing WOT runs to 3500-4000 RPMs within the first 100 miles for just a few seconds. Trying to build boost. I still didn't do redline runs till about 1000 miles, but I was definitely more aggressive. That car consumes either no oil or very little between it's 3500 mile changes.

 

[buster]

Heavy load early on is the key. Next car I buy will get an aggressive break-in.

 

[CompSyn]

Originally Posted By: JoeFromPA
I'm very surprised by yourcomment on sparkplugs though....30k is a conversative changing schedule. 5k over shouldn't result in that much difference in how they look. Even running these engines hard doesn't do much but keep them clean.

P.s. My OEM recommendation for valve adjustment/spark plug change is 105k miles. I'm curious to see what they look like at that time....and what it runs like after the tune-up


Well, your 2006 Civic Si K20Z3 DOHC powerplant is bit more advanced that my old school 1997 D16Y8… My engines ignition system consists of a cap, rotor and plug wires. Not the i-VTEC Direct Ignition System design you enjoy.

Originally Posted By: http://www.vtec.net
The 2006 Civic Si incorporates a host of innovative features designed to deliver a cutting-edge combination of performance, fuel efficiency, and low emissions. Most apparent is the i-VTEC "intelligent" valve-control system, a technology that combines VTC (Variable Timing Control) - which continuously adjusts camshaft phase-with Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control (VTEC) – which changes valve lift, timing, and duration. Combining these two systems results in impressive horsepower and high torque with good fuel economy and low exhaust emissions.

• Aluminum block with cast-in iron liners for light weight and durability
• 16-valve DOHC i-VTEC "intelligent" valve-control system
• Lightweight alloy pistons and forged steel connecting rods (11.0:1 Compression Ratio)
• One-piece crankshaft carrier with ferrous main bearing caps for improved rigidity and durability
• High performance camshafts
• Performance-tuned intake manifold
• Drive-by-wire throttle control
• Computer-controlled Programmed Fuel Injection (PGM-FI)
• Direct Ignition System
• Chain-driven balancer unit mounted in oil pan
• Torque rod engine mount system consists of an upper and lower torque rod, a hydraulic body mount and a front beam stopper
• Maintenance Minder system
• Maintenance-free silent-chain camshaft drive
• Maintenance-free serpentine accessory drive with auto tensioner


Boy! I’ve got to say I’m envious of anyone with a new Si... very cool ride!

 

[FZ1]

Well,there was nothing wrong the oil,the air filtering,and the oil filtering is an unknown; because you have too many variables near the testing date. I would run 2 shorter (3k) ocis just to get whatever junk is stlill in the engine out. Then try 5k ocis. But,that's just me. Maybe you should down shift 1 gear when you go up those hills. Lugging a motor uphill will certainly cause more wear.