92 Cavalier engine noise.

[das_peikko]

Originally Posted by wtd
If it was a collapsed lifter, wouldn't it make that sound all of the time? When there is no load on the engine, you either cannot hear the noise or it's kind of faint.


I had a Ford 351 that would have a collapsed lifter at cold start up, but then it would pump itself up after awhile and quit ticking.
I decided to install a longer pushrod to take up the slack, but one day the lifter pumped back up and bent the longer pushrod.

 

[PandaBear]

Spray soapy water all over the cold exhaust and see if there are leaks.

 

[wtd]

Thanks again for all of the replies. I was busy today so I didn't get to mess with the car and the weather is supposed to turn bad tomorrow and possibly the next day but hopefully it will get better by the end of the week so I can try some of the recent suggestions. I am curious to see if the flexplate is cracked because that makes the most sense so far because of where the noise seems to be concentrated. If that is the issue, I don't know if it's worth getting that fixed.

I'm pretty sure it's not the exhaust because I had the manifold off at the end of last year and checked it out really good as well as replacing the exhaust manifold gasket and the gasket from the manifold to the head pipe. While the exhaust was still cold, I felt all around where the manifold meets the head and where the manifold meets the head pipe and I don't feel any exhaust coming out anywhere.

 

[das_peikko]

An exhaust leak would get quieter once the engine warmed up.

 

[mattd]

Just because you can't feel it doesn't mean it's not there.

 

[WyrTwister]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Maybe EGR gasket has rotted away and it's leaking around the valve?

Also you can take a long hand screw driver, hold the handle part sealed against your ear and then touch various parts of the engine with the metal part and see if you can isolate the source that way.


If you bite down on the plastic screw driver handle , the sound is transmitted through your upper jaw bone to your ear . Muck louder / cleared .

Or , buy a ;

https://www.harborfreight.com/mechanics-stethoscope-63691.html

Ve safe and do not get anything into moving / hot parts .

 

[WyrTwister]

Originally Posted by wtd
Originally Posted by Propflux01
Is it an automatic Transmission? Sounds to me like a cracked flywheel (flexplate). If you have access to a door that's used to remove the torque converter bolts, remove it and flashlight up towards the center of the plate. I had one crack on a Grand Prix, and it sounded and acted exactly like yours, mild at first, then progressively louder. And tye fact yours is louder where engine and transmission meet.

It is an automatic transmission. I will remove the cover and see if I can see anything obvious like a crack. Thanks.


I have heard that it is possible that a bolt holding the flex plate to the torque converter can be loose . If you are under there and have the cover off , might check that too . Wghile you are at it .

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by WyrTwister
Originally Posted by StevieC
Maybe EGR gasket has rotted away and it's leaking around the valve?

Also you can take a long hand screw driver, hold the handle part sealed against your ear and then touch various parts of the engine with the metal part and see if you can isolate the source that way.


If you bite down on the plastic screw driver handle , the sound is transmitted through your upper jaw bone to your ear . Muck louder / cleared .

Or , buy a ;

https://www.harborfreight.com/mechanics-stethoscope-63691.html

Ve safe and do not get anything into moving / hot parts .

I have a stethoscope as does my dad, but I didn't know if the OP did so I suggested a long handle screw driver which I've also used when I don't have my tools with me.

 

[das_peikko]

If you really want to hear the tick, get a mechanic's stethoscope and put the wand on top of the rocker arm bolt. You'll have to remove the valve cover and there will be some oil running down onto the exhaust manifold, but you'll pinpoint the tick that way.

 

[wtd]

Earlier in this thread I mentioned that I did use a mechanics stethoscope on numerous places on the engine and did not pick up the sound that I'm hearing.

I messed around with it some more today and did not figure anything out. I did pull the torque converter cover off and shined a flash light up there and did not see any cracks at all or any missing bolts. I also ran the engine with it off and did not see anything unusual. The flex plate was spinning normally with no wobble.

I also pulled the EGR valve back off and used a wire brush to clean both the intake surface and the surface of the EGR valve. I did put the newer EGR valve back on it since it had a lot less miles on it than the one I put on the other day plus it was a GM valve. That of coarse did not do a thing.

I re-checked the torque on the exhaust manifold bolts and they were still where they should be.

So back to square one.

 

[Propflux01]

Any update?

 

[wtd]

Originally Posted by Propflux01
Any update?

No. The weather has been pretty cold with snow and then rain so I have not really messed with it since. I also have not driven it since. I started it up a few times between the weather to see if I could pinpoint the noise again but no luck. I'm starting to think it's internal.

At some point, I may take it to the mechanic we use to see if he can pinpoint what the noise is or drive it until something lets go but I don't really want to get stranded someplace.

I did go and get my other 92 Cavalier that has been stashed in the garage of my house( I live with fiancee) for the past two years so I have driven it a few times. It's a manual transmission which hurts my left knee so I probably won't drive it much.

I will update if I ever get it figured out.

 

[wtd]

I took the car to an exhaust shop the other day and the guy listened to it and thinks it's an exhaust leak but says it sounds like it's coming from the EGR valve area. He doesn't think it's the exhaust manifold. He told me he couldn't help me though.

So today I take the car to a shop that we use to have them listen to it and he also says it kind of sounds like an exhaust leak or possible head gasket leak because to him it kind of sounded like it was losing compression somewhere but he cannot tell for sure where it's coming from other than it sounds like it's coming from the EGR valve area. I'm taking it to him next week for them to look at more closely and to figure out what is causing the issue. Depending on what it is will determine if I spend the money to get it fixed.

I did notice that the part that the EGR valve bolts to is also bolted to the side of the head. This also houses the thermostat housing. I'm not losing any coolant but I don't know if any exhaust runs through this or not. I'm tired of messing with it so I'm giving someone else a chance at it.

 

[mattd]

I would triple and quadruple check that EGR tube VERY closely.

 

[wtd]

Originally Posted by mattd
I would triple and quadruple check that EGR tube VERY closely.

I have felt all around that thing with it running and do not feel anything and it doesn't feel like it has a crack anywhere. It feels smooth all around the entire tube.

The tube is also more in the center of the engine and the noise sounds like it's right at the EGR valve. The tube goes from the middle of the intake to the middle of the head on the back side of the engine.

I will look it over again before I take it to the mechanic.

 

[wtd]

Well, another update. I woke up this morning thinking about the car. I realized that the exhaust has to run through that housing that the EGR valve mounts to and that the thermostat sits in. I know there is a gasket that mates this entire assembly to the side of the head and thought that the gasket could be broken at the bottom where you can't see it or reach it because of everything that is in the way.

So I decided to remove the assembly and change out this gasket. Of coarse it's not easy since you have to remove all kinds of things to get it off. It's held on with six bolts and of coarse the head of the bolt that is on the bottom in the middle decides to break off when I'm trying to remove it. I end up getting it out with by heating the rest of the bolt with a torch and used vice grips and it came right out. I couldn't tell if the gasket was bad since it stuck to both mating surfaces when I removed the assembly. The lower right bolt was kind of loose though.

I used a wire wheel on a drill to clean both surfaces and installed a new gasket. The gasket they gave me is made just like exhaust manifold gaskets or EGR valve gaskets with the soft gray metal stuff. The factory gasket was a black paper type. I was a little leery of using this other type of gasket because I wasn't sure if it would seal the water ports on the thermostat side of the assembly.

I went and got another bolt from my parts car and tightened the bolts as tight as I could get them with a 1/4 drive ratchet and extension. There was no room to get a torque wrench on the bolts and the torque specs are 8 ft lbs so I was pretty confident that they were tight enough. You cannot tighten most of the bolts once you have everything put back together.

I reassemble everything that I removed and started the car. I can tell that the noise is fixed but now I have a water leak which is either from that type of gasket I used or I didn't get the bolts tight enough. I test drive the car and the loud tapping noise is gone so replacing the gasket fixed that but now I have another problem.

Needless to say I'm pretty frustrated again and am reminded why I am not a mechanic and don't really like working on cars much these days. I spent most of the day on this thing. I probably should have used some type of sealer on the gasket before I put it on and I was thinking of doing it but then forgot when I was putting it back together.

So that is my story for the day.

 

[wtd]

Another update. I took everything back apart and used a gasket that was like the original and used hi-temp gasket sealer on it this time. The noise is still fixed and the water leak appears to be fixed so we will see. I will be canceling my appointment with the mechanic. I saved some money but have quite a few hours into it. At least the second time went a lot quicker.

Did I mention I hate working on cars. LOL

 

[vw7674]

working on old EGR systems is always annoyance.
now you're a REAL mechanic, doing the difficult stuff.......

 

[wtd]

Originally Posted by vw7674
working on old EGR systems is always annoyance.
now you're a REAL mechanic, doing the difficult stuff.......

If I had been thinking more clearly on how the system worked, I should have figured this out a lot sooner. This car has had a sound like an exhaust leak almost the entire time I've owned it(almost 13 years) but I could never figure out where. I had also taken it to a couple of exhaust shops over the years to see if they could figure it out which they didn't.

We have two other Cavaliers of this body style with the same engine and neither one has had this issue so I guess it was just a fluke that it happened on mine. Obviously when I had the head gasket replaced soon after getting the car, they did not remove this assembly since the noise was still there after the repair.

I'm just glad it's fixed now and now I know what it was that's been bugging me for all of these years. I guess the gasket finally blew out in the last few months because the noise was getting a lot louder.