6th and 7th reports for 2000 Montana, now coolant

[21Rouge]

(This link should lead to the previous 5 reports for this car):

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...17#Post1033817)

6th Report: Mid March 2008

2000 Pontiac Montana mini-van 3.4L V6

OCI: about 5 months (November to March 08) and about 2600 miles. (As you can see we do not put many miles on this vehicle and this has been true for the pasts 3 years.)

Total Miles on Car: 76000
OIL: 'bits and pieces' (mostly Mobil 0W30 but also some leftover GC and a bit PP 5W30)

BLACKSTONES COMMENTS:
The high potassium and sodium that we found in this sample indicate that this sample was contaminated with antifreeze. It's still a pretty low level but it likely caused the increase in wear. We aren't sure if the leak is far enough advanced to show up if you had a pressure check done so for now we suggest
sticking with your short oil changes and keeping an eye on your coolant level. You can probably live with this problem for a while. Fuel was found at 1.0% but that isn't a problem. Check back in another 2,000-3,000 miles to monitor.


ALUMINUM 5
CHROMIUM 1
IRON 19
COPPER 14
LEAD 4
TIN 2
MOLYBDENUM 53
NICKEL 1
MANGANESE 5
SILVER 0
TITANIUM 0
POTASSIUM 17
BORON 92
SILICON 11
SODIUM 27
CALCIUM 2691
MAGNESIUM 74
PHOSPHORUS 846
ZINC 841
BARIUM 0

Flashpoint 340
SUS Viscosity 55.8
cST Viscosity 9.01
Fuel% 1.0
Antifreeze POS
Water 0.0
Insolubles 0.4

_________________________________________________________________

So I decided to take BLACKSTONES advice. I monitored the coolant level for the next 4 months and just a very slight drop in the past month that I noticed. Here is the most recent report as of mid July 2008

OCI: 4.5 months (March to July 08) and about 1800 miles.

Total Miles on Car: 78000
OIL: GC 0W30

BLACKSTONES COMMENTS:

It doesn't look like the coolant contamination is getting any worse but it's not getting better either. Wear still looks good so we think with short oil runs that you can live with this problem for a while longer. Just be sure to keep an eye on your coolant level. A trace of fuel was found but that isn't a problem level and no moisture was found. It took you a while to put these 1,800 miles on your 3.4L so we don't think the
coolant leak warrants tearing into your engine just yet. We'll be sure to let you know when the time comes.

ALUMINUM 2
CHROMIUM 0
IRON 10
COPPER 13
LEAD 4
TIN 0
MOLYBDENUM 8
NICKEL 0
MANGANESE 3
SILVER 0
TITANIUM 0
POTASSIUM 15
BORON 18
SILICON 10
SODIUM 21
CALCIUM 2702
MAGNESIUM 111
PHOSPHORUS 816
ZINC 1072
BARIUM 0

Flashpoint 385
SUS Viscosity 61.7
cST Viscosity 10.71
Fuel% TR
Antifreeze ?
Water 0.0
Insolubles 0.4

The intake manifold gasket was replaced by the dealership in 2003 while under warranty (35k miles).

I need your advice. The plan for the past couple of years is to replace this Montana in 2009. I would love to be able to wait until spring or summer 2009. So of course I want to minimize the money we spend on it. (Its transmission has been problematic for the past 3 years but yearly replacement of transmission fluid coupled with a Magnefine inline filter seems to have helped).

And as you can see we dont put many miles on it...maybe 6k miles a year. But we need it when all of us (3 teens) are in the car together. What do you think?

 

[21Rouge]

Full blown repair or given the few miles the car does each month just change oil every 2-3k miles? I really do want it to last another 9 to 12 months.

 

[Al]

Try the GM Coolant Stop-Leak Tabs?

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Time to replace those gaskets with the FelPro gaskets that actually do stop the leak?

 

[DmanWho]

What kind of coolant are you using? I'm thinking a propylene glycol based coolant would be less harmful to the engine compared to ethylene glycol... Either way, coolant in the oil isn't a good thing. Maybe use the least ratio of coolant to water as allowable without freezing.

Is this a "big job" ($$) to have fixed?

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn
Time to replace those gaskets with the FelPro gaskets that actually do stop the leak?

The intake manifold gasket was replaced by the dealership in 2003 while under warranty. One would hope that a GM dealership fix would last

.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: DmanWho
What kind of coolant are you using?


Dexcool.

Originally Posted By: DmanWho
Either way, coolant in the oil isn't a good thing.


Yes but if you look at the most recent two oil reports, covering the 7 months or so that coolant has been in the oil the wear #s arent terrible. This is in part due to the low # of miles that the car is driven.


Originally Posted By: DmanWho
Is this a "big job" ($$) to have fixed?


I was under the impression that it is a major job; pressure test than fix isnt trivial?

 

[duaneb9729]

could you retorque the manifold bolts?

and add the gm tabs as suggested by al

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: duaneb9729
and add the gm tabs as suggested by al


Can one pick up these tabs at GM dealership? (I am in Ontario Canada)

 

[Cutehumor]

yeah, you can pick them up at a GM dealership. I would add the tabs, change the oil every 3k miles. trade in the vehicle next year like you planned.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
yeah, you can pick them up at a GM dealership.


Thanks for the reply.

Does one just plop them in the radiator? How many?

 

[Drew99GT]

If you're dumping it in 12 months, I'd add sealer. Instead of using the GM tabs, just pick up a bottle of Bars leaks.

To install, drain the radiator, then add the sealer. Then, refill the radiator about half way with a 50/50 mix of water and antifreeze. Then start the engine with the heater on and let it idle with the rad cap off - let it idle until the thermostat opens (top rad hose becomes burning hot - about 20 minutes). This way the stuff will get circulated through the system. Top off the rad while it's still running and install the cap. Take it for a short drive, let it totally cool off, then re-check the level in the radiator.

I've added the stuff many times to GMs so I know the ins and outs - if you add it right at the top of a full radiator, it will just stay at the top by the rad neck and gunk up the cap/expansion tank. Hence, draining the rad and adding it.

And it works! Stopped a spraying heater core in my Dad's truck about 4 years ago - still is leak free.

 

[pbm]

You can add Barsleaks which is basically the same as GM tabs but can be purchased at Walmart much cheaper. I think the Barsleaks will cause your leak to slow even further or stop altogether.

 

[ProStreetCamaro]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn
Time to replace those gaskets with the FelPro gaskets that actually do stop the leak?

The intake manifold gasket was replaced by the dealership in 2003 while under warranty. One would hope that a GM dealership fix would last

.



Nope the problem is the GM dealership uses factory parts and these intake gaskets are known to go bad prematurely. Fel-Pro designed a better gasket so if you ever have it fixed again have the Fel-Pro gaskets installed instead of the GM factory gaskets.

 

[Donald]

I would dump the Dexcool, since you know you have a leak and who knows if that will let air back in. Air in a Dexcool is like holding a piece of steel pipe straight up in a lightning storm, you are asking for it.

Have you checked if the the dealership warranties their repairs.

I think if you go with 3K oil changes you will be fine. Get the 5 Qt jugs from Wallymart and you will be fine.

You know the deal from a UOA. But how many people have UOAs done. Maybe 1/10 of 1%. I am sure many cars have some problems that would be picked up by a UOA if it was done. Most just get sold or traded.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Have you checked if the the dealership warranties their repairs.


I have been thinking about this. But the repair was done *5* years and 35k miles ago. This has to be past any such statuate of limitations,

. And if they say no then it would make it difficult to do a trade in for our next car

.

 

[ThirdeYe]

Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn
Time to replace those gaskets with the FelPro gaskets that actually do stop the leak?

The intake manifold gasket was replaced by the dealership in 2003 while under warranty. One would hope that a GM dealership fix would last

.



Nope the problem is the GM dealership uses factory parts and these intake gaskets are known to go bad prematurely. Fel-Pro designed a better gasket so if you ever have it fixed again have the Fel-Pro gaskets installed instead of the GM factory gaskets.


I could've sworn they redesigned the GM OEM replacements as well, a year or two ago...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ThirdeYe
Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn
Time to replace those gaskets with the FelPro gaskets that actually do stop the leak?

The intake manifold gasket was replaced by the dealership in 2003 while under warranty. One would hope that a GM dealership fix would last

.



Nope the problem is the GM dealership uses factory parts and these intake gaskets are known to go bad prematurely. Fel-Pro designed a better gasket so if you ever have it fixed again have the Fel-Pro gaskets installed instead of the GM factory gaskets.


I could've sworn they redesigned the GM OEM replacements as well, a year or two ago...


That may be true. But apparently the fix was done 5 years ago from the post above yours..... Which is perhaps beyond when GM revised their gaskets??

 

[blue898]

The gaskets were revised in 2003. The factory, or GM gasket, was not radically redesigned, torque limiters were added to the bolt area so the gasket was not over torqued. The gasket material used was essentially the same as the original. The "re-designed" gaskets do fail, but at least not of over torquing. The real solution to this gasket problem is to use the FelPro PermaDryPlus gasket, not the reguler fel pro gasket, but the PermaDryPlus gasket, there is a difference(and a difference in price too). If someone tells you they are the same, this is not true, looking at them side by side, you will see the difference. These gaskets will pretty much solve the gasket issue.

 

[wapacz]

make sure the bolts have lock tight on them also.