How do you know if you have a 2-valve or a 3-valve? For example, my 2005 Mercury Grand Marquis.
5w40 HDEO in Ford Triton
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dnewton3
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I don't believe the panther cars (CV, GM) ever got a three valve engine. They all got 2-v engines, with the very rare exception of the Maruaders, which got 4-valve engines from the Cobra a few years back.
The three valve engines are used in the trucks. At times, they are an "upgrade" (such as in the F-150, depending upon trim level and such). But they are also standard issue, at times, such as the newer Super Duty trucks. It really varies from year to year, and vehicle to vehicle.
But the 'Vic and 'Marquis never got 3-v; even the CVPIs get a two-valve engine.
And just for reference, the 6.8L Triton was made in 2v, and now 3v, but the 3v does NOT have the VVT. I believe it's because the V-10 has an extra balance shaft on the top of the head (right side, as facing the truck, as I recall) to balance the V-10 imperfect firing order. Because it's up in the head, there is no room for the VVT extra hardware. So, you could get a 3v 6.8L, but no VVT.
The three valve engines are used in the trucks. At times, they are an "upgrade" (such as in the F-150, depending upon trim level and such). But they are also standard issue, at times, such as the newer Super Duty trucks. It really varies from year to year, and vehicle to vehicle.
But the 'Vic and 'Marquis never got 3-v; even the CVPIs get a two-valve engine.
And just for reference, the 6.8L Triton was made in 2v, and now 3v, but the 3v does NOT have the VVT. I believe it's because the V-10 has an extra balance shaft on the top of the head (right side, as facing the truck, as I recall) to balance the V-10 imperfect firing order. Because it's up in the head, there is no room for the VVT extra hardware. So, you could get a 3v 6.8L, but no VVT.
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I don't believe the panther cars (CV, GM) ever got a three valve engine. They all got 2-v engines, with the very rare exception of the Maruaders, which got 4-valve engines from the Cobra a few years back.
The three valve engines are used in the trucks. At times, they are an "upgrade" (such as in the F-150, depending upon trim level and such). But they are also standard issue, at times, such as the newer Super Duty trucks. It really varies from year to year, and vehicle to vehicle.
But the 'Vic and 'Marquis never got 3-v; even the CVPIs get a two-valve engine.
And just for reference, the 6.8L Triton was made in 2v, and now 3v, but the 3v does NOT have the VVT. I believe it's because the V-10 has an extra balance shaft on the top of the head (right side, as facing the truck, as I recall) to balance the V-10 imperfect firing order. Because it's up in the head, there is no room for the VVT extra hardware. So, you could get a 3v 6.8L, but no VVT.
Minor Correction: From '05 all truck V8s are 3V, whether 4.6L or 5.4L. The '04 "Heritage" F-150 models (previous body style leftovers) still had 2V engines, as did the Super Duty trucks, Excursions, Expeditions and vans. The 3V engines appear to be a mixed bag in '04, with the F-150 having the 5.4L version but not the 4.6L. I just looked through my '04 and '05 Ford Data books and service manuals to glean this. All these are early MY books, so the 3V engine may have begun to trickle in by the end of '04. You are correct about the V10 being 3V from '05 on, but without VCT.
I don't believe the panther cars (CV, GM) ever got a three valve engine. They all got 2-v engines, with the very rare exception of the Maruaders, which got 4-valve engines from the Cobra a few years back.
The three valve engines are used in the trucks. At times, they are an "upgrade" (such as in the F-150, depending upon trim level and such). But they are also standard issue, at times, such as the newer Super Duty trucks. It really varies from year to year, and vehicle to vehicle.
But the 'Vic and 'Marquis never got 3-v; even the CVPIs get a two-valve engine.
And just for reference, the 6.8L Triton was made in 2v, and now 3v, but the 3v does NOT have the VVT. I believe it's because the V-10 has an extra balance shaft on the top of the head (right side, as facing the truck, as I recall) to balance the V-10 imperfect firing order. Because it's up in the head, there is no room for the VVT extra hardware. So, you could get a 3v 6.8L, but no VVT.
Minor Correction: From '05 all truck V8s are 3V, whether 4.6L or 5.4L. The '04 "Heritage" F-150 models (previous body style leftovers) still had 2V engines, as did the Super Duty trucks, Excursions, Expeditions and vans. The 3V engines appear to be a mixed bag in '04, with the F-150 having the 5.4L version but not the 4.6L. I just looked through my '04 and '05 Ford Data books and service manuals to glean this. All these are early MY books, so the 3V engine may have begun to trickle in by the end of '04. You are correct about the V10 being 3V from '05 on, but without VCT.
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dnewton3
Staff member
I know that you can STILL to this day get a 2v 4.6L engine in the F-150 for 2010, but probably not in the 5.4L.
I looked at several 2010 F-150s at my local dealer, they definitely have a 2v 4.6L engine. I have also seen 2010 models with 4.6L 3v engines. Plus, they have it on their Ford website:
http://www.fordvehicles.com/trucks/f150/specifications/engine/
I'm fairly sure that the 2v 4.6L has been continuously available in the F-150; it's just not a popular engine as the "upgrade" 4.6L 3v has much more power. The Super Duty has been a 5.4L 3v as a minimum std engine for a few years now.
But the F-150 clearly still offers a 2v 4.6 Triton engine. And I'm fairly sure it was there in the 2009 models as well.
If you pop the hood, it's easy to tell the 2v from the 3v, as the 3v has an elaborate intake system. The 2v has a very simple intake. Sitting side by side, you can easily tell the difference.
I looked at several 2010 F-150s at my local dealer, they definitely have a 2v 4.6L engine. I have also seen 2010 models with 4.6L 3v engines. Plus, they have it on their Ford website:
http://www.fordvehicles.com/trucks/f150/specifications/engine/
I'm fairly sure that the 2v 4.6L has been continuously available in the F-150; it's just not a popular engine as the "upgrade" 4.6L 3v has much more power. The Super Duty has been a 5.4L 3v as a minimum std engine for a few years now.
But the F-150 clearly still offers a 2v 4.6 Triton engine. And I'm fairly sure it was there in the 2009 models as well.
If you pop the hood, it's easy to tell the 2v from the 3v, as the 3v has an elaborate intake system. The 2v has a very simple intake. Sitting side by side, you can easily tell the difference.
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You're right about the 2V 4.6L.
I misread the manuals and now have discovered an error in one source. For '09, the 4.6L 2V replaced the 4.2L V6 as the base engine, with the 3V being the middle level option below the 5.4L 3V. Prior to that the 2V was the middle engine.
I misread the manuals and now have discovered an error in one source. For '09, the 4.6L 2V replaced the 4.2L V6 as the base engine, with the 3V being the middle level option below the 5.4L 3V. Prior to that the 2V was the middle engine.
dnewton3
Staff member
Yeah, the v-6 is gone. So the 2v took over as the base engine last year, I believe.
I absolutely love the new 4.6L engine layout (have not seen a 5.4, but presume it's similar). The new trucks have finally got rid of the engine fan assembly in favor of an electric set up. Now, at least on the 4.6L, the front of the engine is clearly accessible. Talk about plenty of room to work! I'll bet a water pump change might take 15 minutes! I love all the room to work now that the engine-driven fan and shroud are gone. If you get the 2v 4.6L, the simplicity of the entire engine bay is outstanding! You can see and get to everything in a matter of seconds. Maintaining that truck would be a piece of cake for years to come. I almost bought one (4x2 XL) based on that premise alone!
I absolutely love the new 4.6L engine layout (have not seen a 5.4, but presume it's similar). The new trucks have finally got rid of the engine fan assembly in favor of an electric set up. Now, at least on the 4.6L, the front of the engine is clearly accessible. Talk about plenty of room to work! I'll bet a water pump change might take 15 minutes! I love all the room to work now that the engine-driven fan and shroud are gone. If you get the 2v 4.6L, the simplicity of the entire engine bay is outstanding! You can see and get to everything in a matter of seconds. Maintaining that truck would be a piece of cake for years to come. I almost bought one (4x2 XL) based on that premise alone!
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Well, I absolutely love my '05 XL F-150HD. Hand-crank windows, rubber mats plain interior... simplicity. Some people call AC a luxury, but I don't. Plus, you can turn off the compressor and the ventilation system works well enough on cool days. For my needs, it's every bit the equal of the old plugger ('86 F-250 diesel) and a whole lot nicer to drive around (driver showing signs of age.. he put 250K miles on an old Land Rover... now he's a wimp). Gets better mpg too, out on the road at least (the '86 is pre overdrive and has 4.10 gears).
Obligatory Oil Content: WIll likely try the T5 10W30 in this truck at next OC, doing so while datalogging various engine parameters and comparing those logs to the ones I will make very soon on 5W20. That will allow me to record what operational changes occur to the VCT (and other things) once and for all.
Obligatory Oil Content: WIll likely try the T5 10W30 in this truck at next OC, doing so while datalogging various engine parameters and comparing those logs to the ones I will make very soon on 5W20. That will allow me to record what operational changes occur to the VCT (and other things) once and for all.
Nice you can still buy a truck without every doodad known to man.
dnewton3
Staff member
Yes, you can buy them, but it's hard to find them on the lot.
The proffit margin is so big on the loaded vehicles, that you find very few "XL" Fords or "WT" Chevy's on the lot. They do offer a great value, if you can find them.
And I, too, love the simplicity. My "W/T" K3500 has a/c and cruise, but rubber floor, manual doors and windows, cloth seats with manual levers, etc. I love "simple" because it lasts longer and is easier to fix down the road, for less cost.
Jim - if you love simple, check out the engine bay of the new XL F-150 2v 4.6. But don't look too long, or you'll end up buying one!
The proffit margin is so big on the loaded vehicles, that you find very few "XL" Fords or "WT" Chevy's on the lot. They do offer a great value, if you can find them.
And I, too, love the simplicity. My "W/T" K3500 has a/c and cruise, but rubber floor, manual doors and windows, cloth seats with manual levers, etc. I love "simple" because it lasts longer and is easier to fix down the road, for less cost.
Jim - if you love simple, check out the engine bay of the new XL F-150 2v 4.6. But don't look too long, or you'll end up buying one!
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Took me two years to find my truck. The bugaboo was the "HD" part (which is not a formal Ford designation). Mine is the 8200 GVW F-150 (payload package), which is only about 3 percent of total F-150 production and mostly sold to commercial or government agencies. XLT was the highest trim level you could get with the payload package. Mine was actually a Ford executive pool truck, so when I bought it in '08, it had only 7K miles. It was painted an oddball color to "test the waters," I suppose. I guess it wasn't too successful because I have yet to see that color on trucks. I have seen a close match on a Focus. Turns out the 8200 GVW is just right for what I need here. Workwise, it will do what the old plugger will, and some things it can't ... plus I kept the plugger for local work (started to sell it but couldn't bear to see it go)
Loving the Duramax, I first looked for a used WT Duramax truck and they were hard to find (eaisier the the GMC brand) but prohibitively costly as well. Also, when I crunched the numbers, a diesel didn't crunch out too good. Even the better mpg didn't cancel out the 30-40 percent higher cost of the truck plus the 25% higher fuel cost. If only I cold dare to use red fuel in my trucks. So tempting when you have a tankful of it sitting around on the farm.
Loving the Duramax, I first looked for a used WT Duramax truck and they were hard to find (eaisier the the GMC brand) but prohibitively costly as well. Also, when I crunched the numbers, a diesel didn't crunch out too good. Even the better mpg didn't cancel out the 30-40 percent higher cost of the truck plus the 25% higher fuel cost. If only I cold dare to use red fuel in my trucks. So tempting when you have a tankful of it sitting around on the farm.
dnewton3
Staff member
Yes - I recall the F-150 HD. When that body style first came out (1996 as I recall, when it overlapped the older body style), they added a F-250 based upon the F-150 chassis and body. So, for a short time, there were two types of F-250s. One was based on the light duty line, the other on the HD (then SD) line.
Then, around 1999 or 2000 or so (can't recall which) they dropped the F-250 designation from the light duty truck, and called it the F-150 HD (still under 8500 GVRW).
You can tell the difference in these trucks right away if you simply look at the wheel lugs. The light duty "HD" trucks have seven (7) lug nuts per wheel - a real oddity! They are great vehicles; they have a heavier chassis and components, and as I recall if you got the 5.4L engine, you also got the E4OD/4R100 transmission, rather than the AOD transmission. On the down side, these are so rare that parts are hard to find on the shelf, and can be pricey to replace. The cab and such is all the same, but brakes, suspension, etc is more expensive because of the oddity.
As for owning a diesel, you're right. I cannot cost justify owning my Dmax. I only drive it about 6k miles a year. It would take me YEARS before I ever broke even on the initial engine cost. I really looked for a v-10 Superduty, but simply could not find one that I liked. There were a few that were loaded, but I wanted an XL. So, I shopped GM and found a W/T with the Dmax. Not unhappy at all. Just not a cost effective choice; I fully admit I "wanted" it much more than I "needed" it. There was no logic to the decision; it was pure emotion.
Then, around 1999 or 2000 or so (can't recall which) they dropped the F-250 designation from the light duty truck, and called it the F-150 HD (still under 8500 GVRW).
You can tell the difference in these trucks right away if you simply look at the wheel lugs. The light duty "HD" trucks have seven (7) lug nuts per wheel - a real oddity! They are great vehicles; they have a heavier chassis and components, and as I recall if you got the 5.4L engine, you also got the E4OD/4R100 transmission, rather than the AOD transmission. On the down side, these are so rare that parts are hard to find on the shelf, and can be pricey to replace. The cab and such is all the same, but brakes, suspension, etc is more expensive because of the oddity.
As for owning a diesel, you're right. I cannot cost justify owning my Dmax. I only drive it about 6k miles a year. It would take me YEARS before I ever broke even on the initial engine cost. I really looked for a v-10 Superduty, but simply could not find one that I liked. There were a few that were loaded, but I wanted an XL. So, I shopped GM and found a W/T with the Dmax. Not unhappy at all. Just not a cost effective choice; I fully admit I "wanted" it much more than I "needed" it. There was no logic to the decision; it was pure emotion.
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Originally Posted By: greenfordtruck
Has anyone used 5w40 in a 4.6 or 5.4? If so, what were the results?
Yes, 5w/40 in a 2001 V10 no change in mpg. Now running 5w30 M1 and will be doing 10+ OCI's if OA's allow it. I no longer have a 6.0 Powerstroke. I was using 5w/40 for both. I replaced my diesel with a 2010 F150 4.6 liter. I will be running 5w30 M1 as well after I do some break-in (short OCI's) in on conventional oil. Anyone who says "these Triton engines were designed to run on 5w20" does not know what their talking about! They can be run up to a 50wt at operating temp and 10w at low (start up) temps. Look at this engine in other countries. You will find them recommended to run on anything other than a 5w20. Also there is a current TSB that recommends a 10w/40 be used if the VCT is producing excessive sound. I say run what you want and just make sure you have cold start protection with at least a 5w/?.
Has anyone used 5w40 in a 4.6 or 5.4? If so, what were the results?
Yes, 5w/40 in a 2001 V10 no change in mpg. Now running 5w30 M1 and will be doing 10+ OCI's if OA's allow it. I no longer have a 6.0 Powerstroke. I was using 5w/40 for both. I replaced my diesel with a 2010 F150 4.6 liter. I will be running 5w30 M1 as well after I do some break-in (short OCI's) in on conventional oil. Anyone who says "these Triton engines were designed to run on 5w20" does not know what their talking about! They can be run up to a 50wt at operating temp and 10w at low (start up) temps. Look at this engine in other countries. You will find them recommended to run on anything other than a 5w20. Also there is a current TSB that recommends a 10w/40 be used if the VCT is producing excessive sound. I say run what you want and just make sure you have cold start protection with at least a 5w/?.
Originally Posted By: 1medic
Anyone who says "these Triton engines were designed to run on 5w20" does not know what their talking about!
Ok, so the next time a powertrain engineer at Ford tells me that, I'll tell him he doesn't know what he talking about... 1medic in California told me so.
Big difference in saying, "the VCT engines were designed for 5w20" (which they were) and saying "it's possible to run other oils in them" (which you can). Doesn't mean the variation from spec is optimal or desirable. And you can't prove it is. There's been no testing. On the other hand, there is more than a decade long track record with 5W20, not including the factory qualifications.
Not trying to be cantankerous here. What you run in your trucks is up to you. And if you decide to run something different than what's spec'ed, I'm very interested to hear the long term results. It's just that none of us "oil forum cowboys" (note I included myself) are qualified or equipped to second guess-thousands of hours of testing and millions of dollars of research. That won't stop us, of course, so thank goodness the engines we play with are forgiving and the oils we are experimenting with are of good quality.
Anyone who says "these Triton engines were designed to run on 5w20" does not know what their talking about!
Ok, so the next time a powertrain engineer at Ford tells me that, I'll tell him he doesn't know what he talking about... 1medic in California told me so.
Big difference in saying, "the VCT engines were designed for 5w20" (which they were) and saying "it's possible to run other oils in them" (which you can). Doesn't mean the variation from spec is optimal or desirable. And you can't prove it is. There's been no testing. On the other hand, there is more than a decade long track record with 5W20, not including the factory qualifications.
Not trying to be cantankerous here. What you run in your trucks is up to you. And if you decide to run something different than what's spec'ed, I'm very interested to hear the long term results. It's just that none of us "oil forum cowboys" (note I included myself) are qualified or equipped to second guess-thousands of hours of testing and millions of dollars of research. That won't stop us, of course, so thank goodness the engines we play with are forgiving and the oils we are experimenting with are of good quality.
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