Interesting that some car manufactures recommend 0w20 in the US & Can, but, 5w30 everywhere else.
5w30 in a 5w20 specd focus
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Originally Posted By: Eddie
Interesting that some car manufactures recommend 0w20 in the US & Can, but, 5w30 everywhere else.
Yup, which makes you think that it really doesn't matter one way or another. But I'll take the 0W-20.
Interesting that some car manufactures recommend 0w20 in the US & Can, but, 5w30 everywhere else.
Yup, which makes you think that it really doesn't matter one way or another. But I'll take the 0W-20.
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Sometimes they spec that way because of availability of local market, and probably driving conditions are different. You can drive at top speed of your vehicle in Autobahn for many hours but if you do that here you will be in jail within minutes.
As far as a warranty issue I am not worried about that. My thoughts were ford uses 5w30 in the ecoboost engines even the 2.0 turbo. Which tells me 5w30 is better on a higher heat situation well I understand that 5w20 is good enough but wouldn't 5w30 be a smidgen better. I drive pretty spirited
The 5W-30 isn't necessarily "better" in high heat situations. The idea is that they want the oil to be in a certain viscosity range at operating temperature. Since the oil gets hottter in a turbo engine, they recommend a 30 grade to keep the oil in the correct viscosity range when it's hot. Depending on how much hotter the oil gets, the 30 grade could actually be thinner at operating temp in the turbo engine than a 20 grade would be in your NA engine at operating temp.
Originally Posted By: ram_man
My 2014 focus takes 5w20 but it seems like ford is moving back to 5w30 at least with most of their turbo engines. Mine isn't a turbo engine but the parts counter where I work sells 5w30 in bottles where as 5w20 comes out of bulk. I'd rather use bottles would 5w30 have any effect good or bad?
My 2014 Focus drank the 5w-20, but not the 5w-30. I used 5w-20 for the first 15k or so I believe, and 5w-30 for the next 20k. Never noticed any difference in the car, mileage, startup, nothing like that.
My 2014 focus takes 5w20 but it seems like ford is moving back to 5w30 at least with most of their turbo engines. Mine isn't a turbo engine but the parts counter where I work sells 5w30 in bottles where as 5w20 comes out of bulk. I'd rather use bottles would 5w30 have any effect good or bad?
My 2014 Focus drank the 5w-20, but not the 5w-30. I used 5w-20 for the first 15k or so I believe, and 5w-30 for the next 20k. Never noticed any difference in the car, mileage, startup, nothing like that.
Originally Posted By: ram_man
As far as a warranty issue I am not worried about that. My thoughts were ford uses 5w30 in the ecoboost engines even the 2.0 turbo. Which tells me 5w30 is better on a higher heat situation well I understand that 5w20 is good enough but wouldn't 5w30 be a smidgen better. I drive pretty spirited
I'm gonna blow your mind.... 2009-2010 Ecoboost 3.5's came from the factory with a 5w20 requirement from Ford. And they don't blow up left and right. Matter of fact they are lasting just fine.
Rumors has it that the only reason later Ecoboosts get 5w30 is due to the cam phasers on the exhaust in the newer versions. I believe the EB 1.0 uses 5w20 too.
As far as a warranty issue I am not worried about that. My thoughts were ford uses 5w30 in the ecoboost engines even the 2.0 turbo. Which tells me 5w30 is better on a higher heat situation well I understand that 5w20 is good enough but wouldn't 5w30 be a smidgen better. I drive pretty spirited
I'm gonna blow your mind.... 2009-2010 Ecoboost 3.5's came from the factory with a 5w20 requirement from Ford. And they don't blow up left and right. Matter of fact they are lasting just fine.
Rumors has it that the only reason later Ecoboosts get 5w30 is due to the cam phasers on the exhaust in the newer versions. I believe the EB 1.0 uses 5w20 too.
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Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Why does everyone think they know better than the engineers that design and warranty these engines?
Stick with what they say.
The engine in my 07 F150 (4.2 V6) was manufactured from 1996 to 2008. It was spec'd 5W30 oil up until year 2000. From 2000-2008 it was then spec'd 5W20 and all 4.2's were back spec'd 5W20 also. The whole time this engine was in production the clearances and tolerances were the same. I used 5W30 and 5W20 in my previous (2) 4.2's, and in my current 4.2. And, the engines never failed, blew up, fell out of the truck, shot out any pistons, etc.
But, I was always looking for the "5W20 POLICE" in my rear view mirror every time I used 5W30.
In that case, the ENGINEERS decided either 5w30 or 5w20 was OK in those engines. Not some random people on the Internet. Or some random mechanic in a shop somewhere.
The point still stands - use what the manufacturer recommends and sleep well at night.
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Why does everyone think they know better than the engineers that design and warranty these engines?
Stick with what they say.
The engine in my 07 F150 (4.2 V6) was manufactured from 1996 to 2008. It was spec'd 5W30 oil up until year 2000. From 2000-2008 it was then spec'd 5W20 and all 4.2's were back spec'd 5W20 also. The whole time this engine was in production the clearances and tolerances were the same. I used 5W30 and 5W20 in my previous (2) 4.2's, and in my current 4.2. And, the engines never failed, blew up, fell out of the truck, shot out any pistons, etc.
But, I was always looking for the "5W20 POLICE" in my rear view mirror every time I used 5W30.
In that case, the ENGINEERS decided either 5w30 or 5w20 was OK in those engines. Not some random people on the Internet. Or some random mechanic in a shop somewhere.
The point still stands - use what the manufacturer recommends and sleep well at night.
Originally Posted By: RGR
My 2014 Focus drank the 5w-20, but not the 5w-30. I used 5w-20 for the first 15k or so I believe, and 5w-30 for the next 20k. Never noticed any difference in the car, mileage, startup, nothing like that.
I've seen you write that before. Motorcraft SynBlend, right? Mine doesn't use a perceptible amount of M1 0W-20 AFE.
My 2014 Focus drank the 5w-20, but not the 5w-30. I used 5w-20 for the first 15k or so I believe, and 5w-30 for the next 20k. Never noticed any difference in the car, mileage, startup, nothing like that.
I've seen you write that before. Motorcraft SynBlend, right? Mine doesn't use a perceptible amount of M1 0W-20 AFE.
There are many fleets that have a variety of motors in different vehicles, but they standardize on one oil for their entire fleet. More often than not, it is going to be a 30w oil. Many government agencies that have a broad selection of vehicles, the same thing. There is no appreciable evidence that running a 30w oil in an engine that the manual says a 20w oil is a detriment to engine longevity and reliability.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
There is no appreciable evidence that running a 30w oil in an engine that the manual says a 20w oil is a detriment to engine longevity and reliability.
You are probably right but it is enough evidence for the dealer to void the warranty if any issues should arise using 30w oil.....especially when the owners manual makes no mention of any other weight of oil to be used except 5w20. Although, the OP has mentioned that the warranty is not an issue to him so he can freely use it during the warranty period and post back their findings with the long term use.
There is no appreciable evidence that running a 30w oil in an engine that the manual says a 20w oil is a detriment to engine longevity and reliability.
You are probably right but it is enough evidence for the dealer to void the warranty if any issues should arise using 30w oil.....especially when the owners manual makes no mention of any other weight of oil to be used except 5w20. Although, the OP has mentioned that the warranty is not an issue to him so he can freely use it during the warranty period and post back their findings with the long term use.
I would be willing to bet that a dealer wouldn't even know or most likely not even question what viscosity the oil is. You give dealers way too much credit for being intelligent. If the owner uses the the same method they should use when talking with police, just keep your fat mouth shut, i doubt anyone at the dealership would even ask.
In recent years, I have never seen such a rapid growth in the number of folks who worry about if a dealer will void a warranty. In my experience I have seen a lot of folks do a lot of unusual stuff that caused problems for their vehicles and a dealer still honor the warranty. There doesn't seem to be a real rash of dealer warranty denials going on. Now, true, the owner should not tell the dealer what they were doing to cause, say, the transmission to blow up, but it was still warranted. Give my dad credit for that transmission analogy in 2001. Kinda hard to justify using a 1500 series pickup with a 5.3L in it to pull two large grain hopper wagons 35 miles over hilly Iowa two lane roads. That transmission died a horrible death. Dealer replaced transmission under warranty. Do you think they would even ask about the viscosity of the oil?
In recent years, I have never seen such a rapid growth in the number of folks who worry about if a dealer will void a warranty. In my experience I have seen a lot of folks do a lot of unusual stuff that caused problems for their vehicles and a dealer still honor the warranty. There doesn't seem to be a real rash of dealer warranty denials going on. Now, true, the owner should not tell the dealer what they were doing to cause, say, the transmission to blow up, but it was still warranted. Give my dad credit for that transmission analogy in 2001. Kinda hard to justify using a 1500 series pickup with a 5.3L in it to pull two large grain hopper wagons 35 miles over hilly Iowa two lane roads. That transmission died a horrible death. Dealer replaced transmission under warranty. Do you think they would even ask about the viscosity of the oil?
Originally Posted By: RGR
Originally Posted By: ram_man
My 2014 focus takes 5w20 but it seems like ford is moving back to 5w30 at least with most of their turbo engines. Mine isn't a turbo engine but the parts counter where I work sells 5w30 in bottles where as 5w20 comes out of bulk. I'd rather use bottles would 5w30 have any effect good or bad?
My 2014 Focus drank the 5w-20, but not the 5w-30. I used 5w-20 for the first 15k or so I believe, and 5w-30 for the next 20k. Never noticed any difference in the car, mileage, startup, nothing like that.
Not much difference.
Originally Posted By: ram_man
My 2014 focus takes 5w20 but it seems like ford is moving back to 5w30 at least with most of their turbo engines. Mine isn't a turbo engine but the parts counter where I work sells 5w30 in bottles where as 5w20 comes out of bulk. I'd rather use bottles would 5w30 have any effect good or bad?
My 2014 Focus drank the 5w-20, but not the 5w-30. I used 5w-20 for the first 15k or so I believe, and 5w-30 for the next 20k. Never noticed any difference in the car, mileage, startup, nothing like that.
Not much difference.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I would be willing to bet that a dealer wouldn't even know or most likely not even question what viscosity the oil is. You give dealers way too much credit for being intelligent. If the owner uses the the same method they should use when talking with police, just keep your fat mouth shut, i doubt anyone at the dealership would even ask.
When I purchased my new 2002 F-150 I asked the service manager about requiring only Ford spec'd 5W-20 to be used. With engine oiling problems he said they check to see the condition of the oil and heads and pan. They were looking to see if the oil and filter were changed. Obviously a problem with leased vehicles he said. He didn't care what current weight API grade oil was used as long as the engine wasn't sludge filled from abuse, it would be repaired under warranty. Of course different dealers can handle their warranty claims differently.
Whimsey
I would be willing to bet that a dealer wouldn't even know or most likely not even question what viscosity the oil is. You give dealers way too much credit for being intelligent. If the owner uses the the same method they should use when talking with police, just keep your fat mouth shut, i doubt anyone at the dealership would even ask.
When I purchased my new 2002 F-150 I asked the service manager about requiring only Ford spec'd 5W-20 to be used. With engine oiling problems he said they check to see the condition of the oil and heads and pan. They were looking to see if the oil and filter were changed. Obviously a problem with leased vehicles he said. He didn't care what current weight API grade oil was used as long as the engine wasn't sludge filled from abuse, it would be repaired under warranty. Of course different dealers can handle their warranty claims differently.
Whimsey
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I would be willing to bet that a dealer wouldn't even know or most likely not even question what viscosity the oil is. You give dealers way too much credit for being intelligent. If the owner uses the the same method they should use when talking with police, just keep your fat mouth shut, i doubt anyone at the dealership would even ask.
In recent years, I have never seen such a rapid growth in the number of folks who worry about if a dealer will void a warranty. In my experience I have seen a lot of folks do a lot of unusual stuff that caused problems for their vehicles and a dealer still honor the warranty. There doesn't seem to be a real rash of dealer warranty denials going on. Now, true, the owner should not tell the dealer what they were doing to cause, say, the transmission to blow up, but it was still warranted. Give my dad credit for that transmission analogy in 2001. Kinda hard to justify using a 1500 series pickup with a 5.3L in it to pull two large grain hopper wagons 35 miles over hilly Iowa two lane roads. That transmission died a horrible death. Dealer replaced transmission under warranty. Do you think they would even ask about the viscosity of the oil?
If you do all of your own oil changes and in the 3rd year of your warranty you have an engine issue and the service writer/manager requests proof of maintenance and the only receipts you have in all that time are 5w30 receipts then I'll bet you that they will use that against you to deny the warranty claim. At that point you have no defense as it is spec'd only for 5w20 and no other viscosity. Has nothing to do with keeping your mouth shut as if it is a pricey warranty repair they are definitely looking for a way out of the claim.
I would be willing to bet that a dealer wouldn't even know or most likely not even question what viscosity the oil is. You give dealers way too much credit for being intelligent. If the owner uses the the same method they should use when talking with police, just keep your fat mouth shut, i doubt anyone at the dealership would even ask.
In recent years, I have never seen such a rapid growth in the number of folks who worry about if a dealer will void a warranty. In my experience I have seen a lot of folks do a lot of unusual stuff that caused problems for their vehicles and a dealer still honor the warranty. There doesn't seem to be a real rash of dealer warranty denials going on. Now, true, the owner should not tell the dealer what they were doing to cause, say, the transmission to blow up, but it was still warranted. Give my dad credit for that transmission analogy in 2001. Kinda hard to justify using a 1500 series pickup with a 5.3L in it to pull two large grain hopper wagons 35 miles over hilly Iowa two lane roads. That transmission died a horrible death. Dealer replaced transmission under warranty. Do you think they would even ask about the viscosity of the oil?
If you do all of your own oil changes and in the 3rd year of your warranty you have an engine issue and the service writer/manager requests proof of maintenance and the only receipts you have in all that time are 5w30 receipts then I'll bet you that they will use that against you to deny the warranty claim. At that point you have no defense as it is spec'd only for 5w20 and no other viscosity. Has nothing to do with keeping your mouth shut as if it is a pricey warranty repair they are definitely looking for a way out of the claim.
Well, that can work in reverse. Unless there is clear indication of a problem related to the oil, prove that I didn't do the maintenance as recommended. Federal consumer protection law requires the burden of proof on the OEM, not the consumer. But be that as it may, I keep records of all maintenance done to all of my vehicles, primarily for business reasons. No, don't keep some shoe box or file cabinet with receipts. I buy my oil in bulk commercially, and use oil for my personal stuff from my commercial supplier. But oil change dates and stuff are all on a spreadsheet for every vehicle. And UOA's are stored as PDF's in appropriate file folders. Now, mr. dealer, prove that I didn't do them.
Pricey warranty repair? I suppose. But I have engines that, alone, cost more than most folk's entire automobile or pickup. One motor I own would cost me over $35K to replace if it was on me. I have been at this game for a lot of years with hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line. I have yet to ever have a warranty repair even come close to being questioned. And in over 40 years, no one has ever asked what oil I was using and if I changed it and provide proof I did. They assumed I knew what I was doing.
And yes. I do the services on all my vehicles and equipment. Even if a auto or pickup dealer were to ask what oil I use, I would simply say that I use an oil that is recommended. It is up to them to prove me wrong.
Pricey warranty repair? I suppose. But I have engines that, alone, cost more than most folk's entire automobile or pickup. One motor I own would cost me over $35K to replace if it was on me. I have been at this game for a lot of years with hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line. I have yet to ever have a warranty repair even come close to being questioned. And in over 40 years, no one has ever asked what oil I was using and if I changed it and provide proof I did. They assumed I knew what I was doing.
And yes. I do the services on all my vehicles and equipment. Even if a auto or pickup dealer were to ask what oil I use, I would simply say that I use an oil that is recommended. It is up to them to prove me wrong.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Well, that can work in reverse. Unless there is clear indication of a problem related to the oil, prove that I didn't do the maintenance as recommended. Federal consumer protection law requires the burden of proof on the OEM, not the consumer. But be that as it may, I keep records of all maintenance done to all of my vehicles, primarily for business reasons. No, don't keep some shoe box or file cabinet with receipts. I buy my oil in bulk commercially, and use oil for my personal stuff from my commercial supplier. But oil change dates and stuff are all on a spreadsheet for every vehicle. And UOA's are stored as PDF's in appropriate file folders. Now, mr. dealer, prove that I didn't do them.
Pricey warranty repair? I suppose. But I have engines that, alone, cost more than most folk's entire automobile or pickup. One motor I own would cost me over $35K to replace if it was on me. I have been at this game for a lot of years with hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line. I have yet to ever have a warranty repair even come close to being questioned. And in over 40 years, no one has ever asked what oil I was using and if I changed it and provide proof I did. They assumed I knew what I was doing.
And yes. I do the services on all my vehicles and equipment. Even if a auto or pickup dealer were to ask what oil I use, I would simply say that I use an oil that is recommended. It is up to them to prove me wrong.
"If" maintenance is in question the dealer has every right to ask for proof of maintenance records & you must provide it....mind you this is normally asked if they see any evidence of sludge and/or neglect. As far as consumer protection you have none if you are not abiding by the manufactures specifications....I don't see how it is the burden of proof on the dealer when you have given all the proof they need that you are careless and don't follow manufacturers recommendations because you feel that either you know better than what engineers have designed and spec'd or simply you don't care what they have written. Though, I will concede that they will usually do a warranty repair without question but I would prefer to play by the rules and avoid any chance of disputes, court costs and/or precious time wasted just by simply putting in the recommended oil.
Well, that can work in reverse. Unless there is clear indication of a problem related to the oil, prove that I didn't do the maintenance as recommended. Federal consumer protection law requires the burden of proof on the OEM, not the consumer. But be that as it may, I keep records of all maintenance done to all of my vehicles, primarily for business reasons. No, don't keep some shoe box or file cabinet with receipts. I buy my oil in bulk commercially, and use oil for my personal stuff from my commercial supplier. But oil change dates and stuff are all on a spreadsheet for every vehicle. And UOA's are stored as PDF's in appropriate file folders. Now, mr. dealer, prove that I didn't do them.
Pricey warranty repair? I suppose. But I have engines that, alone, cost more than most folk's entire automobile or pickup. One motor I own would cost me over $35K to replace if it was on me. I have been at this game for a lot of years with hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line. I have yet to ever have a warranty repair even come close to being questioned. And in over 40 years, no one has ever asked what oil I was using and if I changed it and provide proof I did. They assumed I knew what I was doing.
And yes. I do the services on all my vehicles and equipment. Even if a auto or pickup dealer were to ask what oil I use, I would simply say that I use an oil that is recommended. It is up to them to prove me wrong.
"If" maintenance is in question the dealer has every right to ask for proof of maintenance records & you must provide it....mind you this is normally asked if they see any evidence of sludge and/or neglect. As far as consumer protection you have none if you are not abiding by the manufactures specifications....I don't see how it is the burden of proof on the dealer when you have given all the proof they need that you are careless and don't follow manufacturers recommendations because you feel that either you know better than what engineers have designed and spec'd or simply you don't care what they have written. Though, I will concede that they will usually do a warranty repair without question but I would prefer to play by the rules and avoid any chance of disputes, court costs and/or precious time wasted just by simply putting in the recommended oil.
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Like I stated. I have records on the spread sheet of date/mileage services done. I am not required to provide receipts, empty bottles, credit card charges, nor am I required to have an "authorized shop" do the service. And these records of service, like for my pickup, are also entered into the owners section on the OEM website. Now, they are going to have to show that I am a liar. They can see the filter that is on the engine and send the oil in for analysis if they want. I really don't care. But I am not going to lose any sleep over worrying about the childish behavior of a tech behind the counter at a dealership.
I did not make any mention that I think what the engineers have designed or spec'd is stupid, though some things about my pickup really make me suspect that R&D is on drugs, or that I don't follow recommended intervals, oil viscosities, etc. Oh, and I am NOT REQUIRED to use a dexos1 approved oil in my 2013 Chevy pickup. The owners manual even states that. It says "dexos1 or equivalent". The oil I use is equivalent, so I have met the letter of the recommendation of the owners manual. You are trying to put words in my mouth. I just stated I am not going to be treated, at the dealership, like some defendant at the police station being interrogated like I committed an illegal act. The burden of proof goes both ways. I can show that I performed services on dates and mileages. They have to prove what I did or what I used messed things up or that I didn't do them as I recorded. Everything I have done to my pickup, for instance, has been entered as service record on the OEM website. They want to look it up, feel free.
I am not going to apologize that I do not suffer from OCD like some folks do over this warranty stuff. If one follows accepted practices, using quality products that conform to OEM recommendations, then they have nothing to worry about except a moron behind the counter. And for that, I am more than prepared.
I did not make any mention that I think what the engineers have designed or spec'd is stupid, though some things about my pickup really make me suspect that R&D is on drugs, or that I don't follow recommended intervals, oil viscosities, etc. Oh, and I am NOT REQUIRED to use a dexos1 approved oil in my 2013 Chevy pickup. The owners manual even states that. It says "dexos1 or equivalent". The oil I use is equivalent, so I have met the letter of the recommendation of the owners manual. You are trying to put words in my mouth. I just stated I am not going to be treated, at the dealership, like some defendant at the police station being interrogated like I committed an illegal act. The burden of proof goes both ways. I can show that I performed services on dates and mileages. They have to prove what I did or what I used messed things up or that I didn't do them as I recorded. Everything I have done to my pickup, for instance, has been entered as service record on the OEM website. They want to look it up, feel free.
I am not going to apologize that I do not suffer from OCD like some folks do over this warranty stuff. If one follows accepted practices, using quality products that conform to OEM recommendations, then they have nothing to worry about except a moron behind the counter. And for that, I am more than prepared.
Actually, I would expect push back on a warranty repair that is determined to be oil-related as it's likely to be costly to the dealer unless there's a related recall or otherwise established issue that they'll be reimbursed for by Corporate. I don't think recommended grade versus non-recommended grade would likely qualify as the warranty denier or be of much consequence in temperate areas. It's the lack of maintenance, abuse, use of aftermarket parts, etc. or whatever the dealer could trump up.
My belief is that some owners manuals list 5w-20 only ( for example ) when in fact using 5w-30 or 10w-30 would be just as acceptable. Some manufacturers only list the most fuel efficient grade while others list options due to climate, turbo, etc. More oversight and/or CAFE issues than engineering demands involved.
If you compare the same model in the U.S. w/ the same engine versus other countries, sometimes they'll have a different recommended grade. 5w-20 in the U.S. versus 5w-30 in a temperate international area that has the same quality gas and most other parameters is pretty common.
My belief is that some owners manuals list 5w-20 only ( for example ) when in fact using 5w-30 or 10w-30 would be just as acceptable. Some manufacturers only list the most fuel efficient grade while others list options due to climate, turbo, etc. More oversight and/or CAFE issues than engineering demands involved.
If you compare the same model in the U.S. w/ the same engine versus other countries, sometimes they'll have a different recommended grade. 5w-20 in the U.S. versus 5w-30 in a temperate international area that has the same quality gas and most other parameters is pretty common.
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