5w30 cold pump ability

Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
1,065
Location
MA.
How do you know how good your oil choice is with cold temp pump ability? For example I commonly use Formula Shell full synthetic 5w30 but I have no idea how good it's cold flow ability is? So what are we supposed to look for and is the spesifacation something that is published?
 
Joined
Dec 12, 2002
Messages
43,672
Location
'Stralia
Have a look at the video here http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...the#Post3481653 Given that the -35C in the video is the "borderline pumping temperature" for the 0W, the others clearly suffer, being lower than they are reasonably expected to pump at. Move the temp 5C upwards (-30C), and the 5W could reasonably be expected to behave as the 0W did at -35C. Similarly, -25 for the 10W, and -20 for the 15W (-15C, and -10C for 20W and 25W respectively)
 
Joined
Sep 24, 2013
Messages
588
Location
Connecticut
Even conventional 5w-30s pump perfectly fine when cold. If you leave a bottle of oil outside in the winter overnight in freezing temps you'll be amazed at how fluid the oil still is. Oil doesn't get as thick when cold as some members here believe and you have nothing to worry about. Full synthetics like the Shell oil you're running pump even more easily at low temps than conventionals do, and conventionals are adequate to begin with. Keep doing what you're doing and don't stress. It's a non-issue. Have faith in your oil and the genius engineers and chemists who designed it, and the engineers who designed your engine around it. They knew exactly what they were doing from the beginning and wouldn't allow a 5w-30 to be used if it weren't good enough to properly lubricate your bearings/cams/rings at low temperatures.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
48,060
Location
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Even conventional 5w-30s pump perfectly fine when cold.
In what temperature? Not at -35C. Not that the OP may be experiencing that temperature but some qualifiers when making statements like that might be nice.
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
If you leave a bottle of oil outside in the winter overnight in freezing temps you'll be amazed at how fluid the oil still is. Oil doesn't get as thick when cold as some members here believe and you have nothing to worry about.
Obviously you and I have very different ideas as to what constitutes cold. In many parts of Canada (and I"m sure some of the Northern states) it gets cold enough at certain points during the winter that 5w-xx doesn't flow "just fine". There was an old XOM video posted here recently that demonstrated that.
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Full synthetics like the Shell oil you're running pump even more easily at low temps than conventionals do, and conventionals are adequate to begin with.
For the conditions that most encounter during an average winter? Certainly. That does not however mean that some oils aren't "better" in terms of cold temp performance than others, which seems to be what he's asking. If he wants better cold temperature performance he could always run a 0w-30, but as you noted:
Originally Posted By: cheesepuffs
Keep doing what you're doing and don't stress. It's a non-issue.
It is just fine for him to continue what he has been doing, as he's likely not to explore the temperatures necessary to test the limits of the 5w-xx classification.
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
2,015
Location
War Eagle
Well that is a good question about pumpability. During warmer months, we do not have to worry. However, during really cold months, we have some issues. Thick oils can lead to hard to turn over and start engines, poor oil flow for a while, lack of good lubrication for some period, and engine wear in that time. Canadian folks like thin oil in the winter that flows well on start up. Many use 0wxx oils in the cold winter to aid in flow. Many have block heaters to keep engine and oil somewhat warm. I used to fly small aircraft and we would blow warm air up our exhaust cans and around engines to get them to turn over and start in cold temps. If you take cheesepuffs stance, everything is fine and engineered for all to work fine. However, 5w30 is fairly thick in really cold temps. Thank goodness I live in deep south and do not have many really cold start mornings. If I did I would have synthetic 0wxx oil that was very light and use it for cold months for sure. Even so I do use some GC 0w30 from time to time in cold months down here. And I keep my vehicles in a warmer garage. If your vehicles get really cold nights without garage or block heaters, I think the lighter 0wxx oils are a real plus for winter usage for sure.
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
28,120
Location
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Look at CCS and MRV on the PDS and compare it to other oils you are considering.
No, don't do that. Formula Shell's data sheets are still messed up. The conventional and synthetic versions of the sheet are identical, except one has the word synthetic and the other doesn't, so one will never know which sheet represents which product. wink
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
48,060
Location
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Look at CCS and MRV on the PDS and compare it to other oils you are considering.
No, don't do that. Formula Shell's data sheets are still messed up. The conventional and synthetic versions of the sheet are identical, except one has the word synthetic and the other doesn't, so one will never know which sheet represents which product. wink
:facepalm: Seriously? They haven't fixed that yet???
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
242
Location
twin cities mn
Which is more important, CCS or MRV? I know these are not 5w-30 numbers but I will use these examples from valvoline 5w-20 because I have them handy and it is the same concept withing each weight of oil. Which one of these would be better for starting at -35f? Valvoline conventional CCS is 6100 MRV is 20000 pour point -42 Valvoline Maxlife blend CCS is 5900 MRV is 22000 pour point -45 Valvoline Maxlife synthetic CCS is 5500 MRV is 24000 Pour point -36 Mobil High Mileage CCS 5360 MRV 23500 pour point -36. Or to put it a simpler way, Which is more important, CCS or MRV. I was thinking the Maxlife blend because it is in the middle for both numbers and is kind of a compromise. But that is just my uneducated guess. I am pretty sure this one is better than all of those: Pennzoil Platinum CCS 4000 MRV 9000 pour point -51.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
48,060
Location
Ontario, Canada
Depends on which temperature you are going to see. CCS and MRV are measured 5 degrees apart. CCS is Cold Cranking Simulator, so if you don't get down to the temperature MRV is measured at, but get close to CCS, the oil with the lowest CCS is the "best" choice.
 

RGR

Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
224
Location
Denver
Originally Posted By: jmb3675
I am pretty sure this one is better than all of those: Pennzoil Platinum CCS 4000 MRV 9000 pour point -51.
oh yeah!! Don't even really need that low temp performance but I love having it!! Also, what might the PP or PU CCS and MRV be for 5-30 and 10-30? Is it possible that even those oils have better cold flow characteristics than other folks 5-20?
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
3,561
Location
Central Iowa
Wondering... if someone is going to have their vehicle sitting all night in -35 weather and worried about oil flow, why aren't they using an oil pan heater? We used them all the time in Alaska. I still use them when it gets into sub zero cold in Iowa.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
48,060
Location
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Wondering... if someone is going to have their vehicle sitting all night in -35 weather and worried about oil flow, why aren't they using an oil pan heater? We used them all the time in Alaska. I still use them when it gets into sub zero cold in Iowa.
Because sometimes it just "happens". When my wife and I (and our kids) were coming back to Ontario last year from the east coast we stopped at a hotel in Quebec. Woke up in the morning and it was -30C. The truck has a block heater but the place had no outdoor plugs and I had no extension cord with me anyway even if it had.
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
28,120
Location
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
They haven't fixed that yet???
No. I had an email exchange with them around three years ago, I'm guessing, and told the story here. I checked last week or the week previous out of curiosity and it still hasn't been fixed.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Because sometimes it just "happens".
Exactly. Plenty of workplaces lack outdoor power for parking, too. We might have more electrified spaces than a place like Texas might, but there are still plenty of places without such outdoor outlets. Among my businesses, the one at which I spend the most time has no outdoor outlets (and they'd cost a fortune to retrofit), so if I plan on being there in -30 or worse for a length period of time, I try to pull the vehicle into the building. That being said, none of the 5w-XX oils I've used over the years have let me down, and if the vehicle has to be outside, it has to be outside. The only one that caused major worry was the LPG LTD, but that was because of the fuel. The F-150 gets all the electric goodies outside as needed, but as you point out, that's not always an option.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
242
Location
twin cities mn
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Wondering... if someone is going to have their vehicle sitting all night in -35 weather and worried about oil flow, why aren't they using an oil pan heater? We used them all the time in Alaska. I still use them when it gets into sub zero cold in Iowa.
At home I plug it it, but I work over nights. I get to work at 6:30pm and get to my car at 7:10am. In the winter I usually start it earlier with the remote start. I have a block heater, but work does not have outlets in the parking lot. Without a place to plug into, a block heater is useless. We are also not supposed to go out and start our cars during work hours, although some folks do anyway. I would rather use a better oil and start it one time, instead of subjecting it to 2 or 3 more cold starts just to keep it warm. Last winter I used Citgo Superguard synthetic blend 5w-20. It was harder to start at -10f and the first time it got colder than -25f it wouldn't start. I thought it was the battery at first, but a new one didn't help so I changed the oil to Maxlife synthetic blend. At -35f it started fairly easily. I am still surprised at how different oils in the same weight can be.
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
651
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Because sometimes it just "happens". When my wife and I (and our kids) were coming back to Ontario last year from the east coast we stopped at a hotel in Quebec. Woke up in the morning and it was -30C. The truck has a block heater but the place had no outdoor plugs and I had no extension cord with me anyway even if it had.
I absolutely can vouch for this as well. We were up in Northern Ontario for a few days, and the hotel had a remote parking lot where the car was at least a half-kilometre away from the hotel entrance. The temperature dipped to -37 C (without windchill of course!) and the car had been sitting for 3 days. It cranked kind of slowly, but it started up just fine on 0W syn oil. Glad I had that in there. I'm sure many people weren't going anywhere that day if they didn't have the correct oil grade in their vehicles and a strong battery!
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
651
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: jmb3675
Last winter I used Citgo Superguard synthetic blend 5w-20. It was harder to start at -10f and the first time it got colder than -25f it wouldn't start. I thought it was the battery at first, but a new one didn't help so I changed the oil to Maxlife synthetic blend. At -35f it started fairly easily. I am still surprised at how different oils in the same weight can be.
I also notice the subtle difference in cranking speeds at extremely low temperatures when using various different oils (even sometimes of the same grade). Sometimes, the difference between a vehicle starting and not starting is just a touch faster cranking speed, which of course is based on CCS (and MRV to a lesser extent) for a given outside temperature.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
48,060
Location
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: il_signore97
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Because sometimes it just "happens". When my wife and I (and our kids) were coming back to Ontario last year from the east coast we stopped at a hotel in Quebec. Woke up in the morning and it was -30C. The truck has a block heater but the place had no outdoor plugs and I had no extension cord with me anyway even if it had.
I absolutely can vouch for this as well. We were up in Northern Ontario for a few days, and the hotel had a remote parking lot where the car was at least a half-kilometre away from the hotel entrance. The temperature dipped to -37 C (without windchill of course!) and the car had been sitting for 3 days. It cranked kind of slowly, but it started up just fine on 0W syn oil. Glad I had that in there. I'm sure many people weren't going anywhere that day if they didn't have the correct oil grade in their vehicles and a strong battery!
Yup, the guy with the SuperDuty in the room next to us, who I can only assume had 15w-40 in it, still didn't have his truck running by the time we left. CAA was there and had a big portable "start cart" hooked up to it as well as a generator running the block heater crzy
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
651
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Yup, the guy with the SuperDuty in the room next to us, who I can only assume had 15w-40 in it, still didn't have his truck running by the time we left. CAA was there and had a big portable "start cart" hooked up to it as well as a generator running the block heater crzy
LOL... (Trying not to laugh at the expense of others, but your story is funny!!! I sure wouldn't want to be in that situation!)
 
Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Messages
9,577
Location
Canuck - moved to —> California —> Texas —> ???
Originally Posted By: il_signore97
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Yup, the guy with the SuperDuty in the room next to us, who I can only assume had 15w-40 in it, still didn't have his truck running by the time we left. CAA was there and had a big portable "start cart" hooked up to it as well as a generator running the block heater crzy
LOL... (Trying not to laugh at the expense of others, but your story is funny!!! I sure wouldn't want to be in that situation!)
There is nothing funny about it and in diesels, the oil choice has zero relevance on start vs non start condition. At those temps if the truck hasn't been plugged in or had a Webasto unit running, it simply will not start, as the diesel fuel cannot properly vaporize and generate enuogh heat through compression. You could have MMO in the crank case and it would not help one bit. As it was mentioned many times before, running ANY oil that meets manufacturer specifications will not be a deterimental factor in a non start condition, the battery condition will. My cars experienced the same winter sitting outside and had no trouble starting in the morning with dino juice. If I lived in a place where -35C was a routine occurrence, a good coolant and oil heater would be my first choice, not a unicorn oil.
 
Top