See my answer above, and then substitute engine for knowledge of the topic in the US.
5w30-10w30 difference?
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Nothing wrong with a good 10w30. I realize that in many cases the 5w30 has a better base oil, but that is to compensate for the wider viscosity spread to make the 5w30 on par with the 10w30 for robustness. Besides, if I want better base oil, I can throw in some synthetic.
Long live 10w30, 10w40, and 15w40!
Long live 10w30, 10w40, and 15w40!
To add more fuel to the debate, here is a page from the owners manual from a 2006 Volvo V70. Volvo seems to like 10w30 for summer temps and for hauling, mountain driving, etc... It may be that car makers recognize that all 5w30's may not be created equal.
Oil specifications
Engine oil must meet the minimum ILSAC specification GF-3, API SL, or ACEA A1/B1. Lower quality oils may not offer the same fuel economy, engine performance, or engine protection.
Volvo Cars recommends CASTROL.
Depending on your driving habits, premium or synthetic oils may provide superior fuel economy and engine protection. Consult your Volvo retailer for recommendations on premium or synthetic oils.
Oil additives must not be used.
NOTE: Synthetic oil is not used when the oil is changed at the normal maintenance services. This oil is only used at customer request, at additional charge. Please consult your Volvo retailer.
Oil viscosity (stable ambient temperatures)
Operation in temperate climates
Incorrect viscosity oil can shorten engine life. Under normal use when temperatures do not exceed 86 °F (30°C), SAE 5W/30 will provide good fuel economy and engine protection. See the viscosity chart below.
Operation in hot climates
When temperatures exceed 86 °F (30°C) in your area, Volvo recommends, for the protection of your engine, that you use a heavier weight oil, such as SAE 10W/30. See the viscosity chart below.
Extreme engine operation
Synthetic oils meeting SAE 10W-30 and complying with oil quality requirements are recommended for driving in areas of sustained temperature extremes (hot or cold), when towing a trailer over long distances, and for prolonged driving in mountainous areas.
Oil specifications
Engine oil must meet the minimum ILSAC specification GF-3, API SL, or ACEA A1/B1. Lower quality oils may not offer the same fuel economy, engine performance, or engine protection.
Volvo Cars recommends CASTROL.
Depending on your driving habits, premium or synthetic oils may provide superior fuel economy and engine protection. Consult your Volvo retailer for recommendations on premium or synthetic oils.
Oil additives must not be used.
NOTE: Synthetic oil is not used when the oil is changed at the normal maintenance services. This oil is only used at customer request, at additional charge. Please consult your Volvo retailer.
Oil viscosity (stable ambient temperatures)
Operation in temperate climates
Incorrect viscosity oil can shorten engine life. Under normal use when temperatures do not exceed 86 °F (30°C), SAE 5W/30 will provide good fuel economy and engine protection. See the viscosity chart below.
Operation in hot climates
When temperatures exceed 86 °F (30°C) in your area, Volvo recommends, for the protection of your engine, that you use a heavier weight oil, such as SAE 10W/30. See the viscosity chart below.
Extreme engine operation
Synthetic oils meeting SAE 10W-30 and complying with oil quality requirements are recommended for driving in areas of sustained temperature extremes (hot or cold), when towing a trailer over long distances, and for prolonged driving in mountainous areas.
You're right, 10W30 is popular. So is Paris Hilton and American Idol. Popularity != quality.
Except for NOACK. 10W30's tend to be better. PP 10W30 is ~3 points lower than the 5W30. Amsoil 10W30 is lower than the 5W30, etc.
It really amazes me as to the mis-information that gets posted on this 10W-30 vs. 5W-30 subject.
I see both viscosities as being 2 sides of the same coin, with one having better cold temp properties & the better on the high temp side.
No, a 10W-30 is not "obsolete", it is included in the GF-4 tests right along with the 5W's and has approval of ILSAC, an Automotive manufacturer's organization. A 10W-40 could be termed "obsolete" as it is not included in the group of API starburst oils.
No, 10W-30 does not have inferior base oils, it has a blend of base oils that meets the same high temperature spec as the 5W's and in most cases does so with a lower Noack volatility rating.
No, a 5W-30 does not have a better add pack. The VOA/UOA reports we see here indicate that the metallic add levels are very similar, in no way are the 10W-30's being short changed. Again, how could this viscosity pass GF-4 engine wear & deposit tests with a lesser add pack?
10W-30 continues to be right at the top in $ sales and as in the case of Chevron & the new Deposit Shield line, will get the latest additive package technology.
I see both viscosities as being 2 sides of the same coin, with one having better cold temp properties & the better on the high temp side.
No, a 10W-30 is not "obsolete", it is included in the GF-4 tests right along with the 5W's and has approval of ILSAC, an Automotive manufacturer's organization. A 10W-40 could be termed "obsolete" as it is not included in the group of API starburst oils.
No, 10W-30 does not have inferior base oils, it has a blend of base oils that meets the same high temperature spec as the 5W's and in most cases does so with a lower Noack volatility rating.
No, a 5W-30 does not have a better add pack. The VOA/UOA reports we see here indicate that the metallic add levels are very similar, in no way are the 10W-30's being short changed. Again, how could this viscosity pass GF-4 engine wear & deposit tests with a lesser add pack?
10W-30 continues to be right at the top in $ sales and as in the case of Chevron & the new Deposit Shield line, will get the latest additive package technology.
End of debate...GC 0w30!!!!
Blue99 makes some very good points ... HOWEVER, 10W-30 is much more shear-prone than it used to be ... I'd say as shear prone as most 5W-30s. Given that, why not use 5W-30 for those applications for which 10W-30 used to be specified?
It used to be that 5W-30 was more versatile ... a one-size-fits all oil that was good enough for your typical semi-ignorant motorist. It pumped well in the cold and held OK up ok most warm conditions. 10W-30 wasn't as good in colder temps (at start-up) but would resist shearing under high loads and higher temps. A thoughtful person in the northern half of North America could switch weights seasonally if they wanted optimum protection year-round.
But UOAs show us 10W-30 shearing down as fast (almost as fast?) as 5W-30s these days. I'm chalking this up to ecological pressure on the oil companies to make thinner oils to save fuel (on a macro level).
Given that, I'd say 10W-30 is obsolescent ... nearly as much as 10W-40 is.
The reason these weights are still so popular? Ignorance, mostly.
It used to be that 5W-30 was more versatile ... a one-size-fits all oil that was good enough for your typical semi-ignorant motorist. It pumped well in the cold and held OK up ok most warm conditions. 10W-30 wasn't as good in colder temps (at start-up) but would resist shearing under high loads and higher temps. A thoughtful person in the northern half of North America could switch weights seasonally if they wanted optimum protection year-round.
But UOAs show us 10W-30 shearing down as fast (almost as fast?) as 5W-30s these days. I'm chalking this up to ecological pressure on the oil companies to make thinner oils to save fuel (on a macro level).
Given that, I'd say 10W-30 is obsolescent ... nearly as much as 10W-40 is.
It ain't all the same soup - look at Shell's new non-syn Rotella T 10W-30: pour point -49 degrees F. (see Shell's Canada website). How many 5W-30s can do that?
Also, the poster above concerning the Chrysler 3.5L is correct - only 10W-30 can be used with the limited exception of using a 5W-30 to facilitate cold weather starting. I believe that engine is used in at least six of their current car lines (Says the above in 2006 Pacifica manual).
Also, the poster above concerning the Chrysler 3.5L is correct - only 10W-30 can be used with the limited exception of using a 5W-30 to facilitate cold weather starting. I believe that engine is used in at least six of their current car lines (Says the above in 2006 Pacifica manual).
Diamler/chrysler is trying to get on the band wagon with Ford with the 5w20. Their cars and trucks always recommended a thicker oil. The 2004 and 2005 hemis called for 10w30 then bang no engine changes, just lets go with 5w20. Its a fuel savings ploy, whenever I looking for a truck, every Ford dealer would mention the bad fuel milelage with a hemi. Dodge is trying to shun this reputation a little. Anyway I use 5w30 and 10w30 in the hot summer months in Florida, I have a 2006 Hemi without the MDS(3/4 ton) and I will continue, I do have friends who are scared of the warranty and are using 5w20 and their trucks are using oil, not alot, but my uses none, Even on a long 1200 mile one way nonstop trip, not a ounce. I was at the Ford dealer where we bought my wifes car, and asked him about the 5w20 oil and the manager told me, we use it but if we get a customer in complaining about their car/truck using oil, we use the 5w30 and it stops any oil use. Also I would like to note they sell the same cars in Europe, but dont sell 5w20 there and most warranties there require 5w40. 10w30 is not like gear oil, its actually as thin as 5w30 was 5 years ago, so if engines got tighter, well oil got lighter.
For the same reason that hydrogenated vegetable oils are still prevalent; it's cheap (to manufacture) and it's what many people are used to. As I said earlier, it wasn't long ago that most 10W-30 oils were better than the 5W-30s.
Yea, I noticed that DC is doing this also. For instance my 2006 3.7L calls for 5w30. Now, the exact same enging for 2007 strictly calls for 5w20...
Again, if the manufacturers require a certain viscosity, then the oil companies must meet it. And we will buy it, at least in order to maintain warranty negotiations. Chrysler with the 3.5L, Kia requires a minimum 10W-40 in its Hyundai 3.5L, certain turbo applications want 10W-30 or thicker, etc. How can something be called obsolete when the manufacturers - working with the oil companies, I would think - require a grade thicker than 5W-20,-30? Sheez, I hope the manufacturers should be basing this on tests and results... I'd quess about a quarter of the US population probably lives in areas where a straight 30 grade would work fine (southern Cal, AZ, Texas, Gulf Coast, Florida, etc).
10W30 is referred to as being "thicker" than 5W30 but is it really? Sure it is at cold startup but what about at operating temp? The answer to that is generally no. Look at the recent UOA on the Havoline 10W30 that sheared to 8.8 CST in 3,000 miles.How did this "thicker" 10W30 oil provide "better" protection than 5W30?
Any 5W-30 could be packaged and sold as 10W-30, if that means anything.
That's why you want to use a high mileage 10w30 that does not have "energy conserving" on the bottle. I have not seen Maxlife 10w30 sheer down.
If one is comparing oils with the same class of basestocks, like a synthetic Grp III or IV, then the 10w-30 will have a lower NOACK than the 5w-30 because the 10w-30 is blended with higher viscosity basestocks. Higher viscosity (thicker) basestocks have lower volatility -- hence a lower NOACK. The 5w-30 is blended with thinner basestocks than a 10w-30 because it has to meet lower cold pumpability specifications.
In the case of dino’s (non-synthetics) the situation is different, a straight Grp II suffices to blend a 10w-30 (probability just barely) but a 5w-30 has to be upblended with higher quality Grp II+/III’s to meet the latest SM/GF4 spec. (NOACK 15%). So, a 5w-30 definitely has better base oils than a 10w-30. The 10w-30 has the advantage of thicker (higher viscosity) base oils. Hard to say which is more “robust”, but 10w-30’s no longer have the advantage they used to (prior to SM/GF4).
5w-30 …vs … 10w-30
10w-30 … thicker base oils, straight Grp II meets spec.
5w-30 … thinner base oils but higher quality, needs upblending so uses Grp II and Grp II+/III blend
A 5w-30 could theoretically be sold as a 10w-30, but the 5w-30 costs more to make since it requires upblending with more expensive base oils (Grp II+/III cost more than Grp II). Manufacturers would unlikely upblend a 10w-30 with more expensive base oils if they didn’t have to.
In the case of dino’s (non-synthetics) the situation is different, a straight Grp II suffices to blend a 10w-30 (probability just barely) but a 5w-30 has to be upblended with higher quality Grp II+/III’s to meet the latest SM/GF4 spec. (NOACK 15%). So, a 5w-30 definitely has better base oils than a 10w-30. The 10w-30 has the advantage of thicker (higher viscosity) base oils. Hard to say which is more “robust”, but 10w-30’s no longer have the advantage they used to (prior to SM/GF4).
5w-30 …vs … 10w-30
10w-30 … thicker base oils, straight Grp II meets spec.
5w-30 … thinner base oils but higher quality, needs upblending so uses Grp II and Grp II+/III blend
A 5w-30 could theoretically be sold as a 10w-30, but the 5w-30 costs more to make since it requires upblending with more expensive base oils (Grp II+/III cost more than Grp II). Manufacturers would unlikely upblend a 10w-30 with more expensive base oils if they didn’t have to.
That's not necessarily true. Some places in Southern Ca. get into the single digits at nights. Right now Big Bear Lake, Ca. has lows in the upper teens. In San Diego (about as far south as you can go) we have 4 different weather zones - costal, inland, mountains and deserts. There can be a WIDE variation (especially this time of year) between cities about an hour drive apart.
http://www.kfmb.com/weather/
Even here in the coastal area, we had lows in the upper 20's low 30's the last few weeks. Personally I wouldn't use a straight 30 weight here, especially in my newer vehicles. Maybe in an old beater!
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