5w-40 a common euro spec and US 5w-20 5w-30?
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Longer OCI's???
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Longer OCI's???
^Yup. OCI are expected to be longer "over there". I would also bet that a high diesel market share has a roll too (perception and uniform-product retail needs).
(And before folks in foil hats rant about CAFE, they have fuel economy standard there too... and they are much higher. If CAFE has an impact, it is more consumer side as 'mericans still want displacement but "cheap" cost such as fuel.. something has got to give because the free market won't)
Longer OCI's???
^Yup. OCI are expected to be longer "over there". I would also bet that a high diesel market share has a roll too (perception and uniform-product retail needs).
(And before folks in foil hats rant about CAFE, they have fuel economy standard there too... and they are much higher. If CAFE has an impact, it is more consumer side as 'mericans still want displacement but "cheap" cost such as fuel.. something has got to give because the free market won't)
5W30 is common spec in Europe for DPF engines, or no DPF but long-life OCIs.
5W40 is common spec for Diesels engines without DPF, and newer petrol engines.
10W40 is still commonly used for 2000-2010 petrol engines as base specs, and for some PC diesel engines mounted in small utility vehicles.
15W40, common in agri stuff.
10W50 or 15W50, popular for modified (boost +++) turbo cars (diesel & petrol)
0W20 & 5W20, & 10W30 : Rare things, can barely find them in stores.
5W40 is common spec for Diesels engines without DPF, and newer petrol engines.
10W40 is still commonly used for 2000-2010 petrol engines as base specs, and for some PC diesel engines mounted in small utility vehicles.
15W40, common in agri stuff.
10W50 or 15W50, popular for modified (boost +++) turbo cars (diesel & petrol)
0W20 & 5W20, & 10W30 : Rare things, can barely find them in stores.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Longer OCI's???
^Yup. OCI are expected to be longer "over there". I would also bet that a high diesel market share has a roll too (perception and uniform-product retail needs).
(And before folks in foil hats rant about CAFE, they have fuel economy standard there too... and they are much higher. If CAFE has an impact, it is more consumer side as 'mericans still want displacement but "cheap" cost such as fuel.. something has got to give because the free market won't)
And people over there might keep cars a bit longer and drive cars that they can afford, so the thicker oil might just help the process no matter what the claims for 20 weight oil might be.
Here people just finance the car for 6 or more years and keep trading long before it's ever paid off and certainly before the warranty expires. Why get stuck driving a car you can afford when you have a credit card? Besides the bank that holds your credit card makes more profit on the turnover than the dealer anyhow. The dealer has to make up the difference in the shop.
Beside all this, how many dealers here are using bulk Xw-30 in new cars spec'd for Xw-20?
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Longer OCI's???
^Yup. OCI are expected to be longer "over there". I would also bet that a high diesel market share has a roll too (perception and uniform-product retail needs).
(And before folks in foil hats rant about CAFE, they have fuel economy standard there too... and they are much higher. If CAFE has an impact, it is more consumer side as 'mericans still want displacement but "cheap" cost such as fuel.. something has got to give because the free market won't)
And people over there might keep cars a bit longer and drive cars that they can afford, so the thicker oil might just help the process no matter what the claims for 20 weight oil might be.
Here people just finance the car for 6 or more years and keep trading long before it's ever paid off and certainly before the warranty expires. Why get stuck driving a car you can afford when you have a credit card? Besides the bank that holds your credit card makes more profit on the turnover than the dealer anyhow. The dealer has to make up the difference in the shop.
Beside all this, how many dealers here are using bulk Xw-30 in new cars spec'd for Xw-20?
This chart is from a Honda analysis.
US have a pretty predictable on average utilisation factor, and with the presence of CAFE, 1 size can be a reasonable fit for all.
If you find yourself spending the most of your time in the mid field area, 3,000-6,000RPM, and 3/4 throttle, then you might need to consider an oil typical of the Euro trend.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
And people over there might keep cars a bit longer and drive cars that they can afford, so the thicker oil might just help the process no matter what the claims for 20 weight oil might be.
Here people just finance the car for 6 or more years and keep trading long before it's ever paid off and certainly before the warranty expires. Why get stuck driving a car you can afford when you have a credit card? Besides the bank that holds your credit card makes more profit on the turnover than the dealer anyhow. The dealer has to make up the difference in the shop.
Beside all this, how many dealers here are using bulk Xw-30 in new cars spec'd for Xw-20?
Actually, it is the opposite (US to Western Europe). The average age for a car in the UK for example is 8 years. In the US, it is 11.5 years. So our cars are 3.5 years or have a 43% longer "life" than those in the UK. So if you are looking to say thicker oil makes vehicles last longer, the data is quite the opposite on the surface. Not only that, but vehicles here also sell for a greater cost at the end of their life in the US than "over there". Now, the reason is part where the country invests some of its transportation funding. If you economically-borderline between car ownership there, you have better transit options so you could avoid paying for a 10year old car with "issues" but in the US, if it moves, people will buy it to get off our cruddy transit (save for some US cities). So our market is more competitive at the "cheap" level of the lower entry point of the vehicle.
I would not say that "they" drive things they can afford anymore than we do. Actually their "luxury" market has a larger market share I think. American auto-buying is much more egalitarian and "cheaper"... and for many there is a legacy of the car as more of an upper-class item. So the market is different. Part of the reason why many US "luxury" makes often don't sell well over there because they are plasticized to cheaper US tastes. However, if you are referencing that people will take out a line of credit for a $5000 car in the US will high interest rates and a long term length, you are correct as that behavior is less common "over there"... but then again, vehicles with 140K miles are cheaper over there.
And people over there might keep cars a bit longer and drive cars that they can afford, so the thicker oil might just help the process no matter what the claims for 20 weight oil might be.
Here people just finance the car for 6 or more years and keep trading long before it's ever paid off and certainly before the warranty expires. Why get stuck driving a car you can afford when you have a credit card? Besides the bank that holds your credit card makes more profit on the turnover than the dealer anyhow. The dealer has to make up the difference in the shop.
Beside all this, how many dealers here are using bulk Xw-30 in new cars spec'd for Xw-20?
Actually, it is the opposite (US to Western Europe). The average age for a car in the UK for example is 8 years. In the US, it is 11.5 years. So our cars are 3.5 years or have a 43% longer "life" than those in the UK. So if you are looking to say thicker oil makes vehicles last longer, the data is quite the opposite on the surface. Not only that, but vehicles here also sell for a greater cost at the end of their life in the US than "over there". Now, the reason is part where the country invests some of its transportation funding. If you economically-borderline between car ownership there, you have better transit options so you could avoid paying for a 10year old car with "issues" but in the US, if it moves, people will buy it to get off our cruddy transit (save for some US cities). So our market is more competitive at the "cheap" level of the lower entry point of the vehicle.
I would not say that "they" drive things they can afford anymore than we do. Actually their "luxury" market has a larger market share I think. American auto-buying is much more egalitarian and "cheaper"... and for many there is a legacy of the car as more of an upper-class item. So the market is different. Part of the reason why many US "luxury" makes often don't sell well over there because they are plasticized to cheaper US tastes. However, if you are referencing that people will take out a line of credit for a $5000 car in the US will high interest rates and a long term length, you are correct as that behavior is less common "over there"... but then again, vehicles with 140K miles are cheaper over there.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Longer OCI's???
^Yup. OCI are expected to be longer "over there". I would also bet that a high diesel market share has a roll too (perception and uniform-product retail needs).
(And before folks in foil hats rant about CAFE, they have fuel economy standard there too... and they are much higher. If CAFE has an impact, it is more consumer side as 'mericans still want displacement but "cheap" cost such as fuel.. something has got to give because the free market won't)
Tell us more about European fuel economy standards. CAFE impacts both the consumer and manufacturer.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Longer OCI's???
^Yup. OCI are expected to be longer "over there". I would also bet that a high diesel market share has a roll too (perception and uniform-product retail needs).
(And before folks in foil hats rant about CAFE, they have fuel economy standard there too... and they are much higher. If CAFE has an impact, it is more consumer side as 'mericans still want displacement but "cheap" cost such as fuel.. something has got to give because the free market won't)
Tell us more about European fuel economy standards. CAFE impacts both the consumer and manufacturer.
Originally Posted By: Superflan
5W30 is common spec in Europe for DPF engines, or no DPF but long-life OCIs.
5W40 is common spec for Diesels engines without DPF, and newer petrol engines.
10W40 is still commonly used for 2000-2010 petrol engines as base specs, and for some PC diesel engines mounted in small utility vehicles.
15W40, common in agri stuff.
10W50 or 15W50, popular for modified (boost +++) turbo cars (diesel & petrol)
0W20 & 5W20, & 10W30 : Rare things, can barely find them in stores.
so 5w-40 is the spec found in "newer petrol engines"? and not a 5w-20..
5W30 is common spec in Europe for DPF engines, or no DPF but long-life OCIs.
5W40 is common spec for Diesels engines without DPF, and newer petrol engines.
10W40 is still commonly used for 2000-2010 petrol engines as base specs, and for some PC diesel engines mounted in small utility vehicles.
15W40, common in agri stuff.
10W50 or 15W50, popular for modified (boost +++) turbo cars (diesel & petrol)
0W20 & 5W20, & 10W30 : Rare things, can barely find them in stores.
so 5w-40 is the spec found in "newer petrol engines"? and not a 5w-20..
Trav:
The EU "standards" (which I expect you to understand the apples and oranges of the two) is a more modern comprehensive take that includes environmental tasks within the policy. This is not done in the US as much. So it is skinning the same cat and also takes into newer CO2 initiatives. Yes, it is not a "fuel mandate" model (policies do not have to be identical to accomplish the same goal) as CAFE directly tied to MPG but it accomplishes the same task Cafe, which is from the 1970s in structure and even the modern "footprinting" that was tossed out, readopted, and inserted doe tend to some odd effect: such as thinner oil and the PT Cruizer being a "light duty truck" with a recommendation not to tow. However, taxation on fuel and vehicles which consume more/pollute more is a more effective model. Heck, the CO2 in the US might accomplish more economy than CAFE. But, then CAFE is generally considered a "good" thing as surveys suggest it has high public support. Compared to a fuel tax, CAFE is incredibly popular. Even compared to other metrics, Americans are "ok" for someone else to be told what to do... even if it impact them. Keep in mind that NHTSA sets fuel economy standards in the US, not the EPA so the likelihood of a CO2 model is unlikely so "mandates" in other forms is necessary in the current US political landscape.
http://www.unep.org/transport/gfei/autotool/case_studies/europe/cs_eu_0.asp
The EU "standards" (which I expect you to understand the apples and oranges of the two) is a more modern comprehensive take that includes environmental tasks within the policy. This is not done in the US as much. So it is skinning the same cat and also takes into newer CO2 initiatives. Yes, it is not a "fuel mandate" model (policies do not have to be identical to accomplish the same goal) as CAFE directly tied to MPG but it accomplishes the same task Cafe, which is from the 1970s in structure and even the modern "footprinting" that was tossed out, readopted, and inserted doe tend to some odd effect: such as thinner oil and the PT Cruizer being a "light duty truck" with a recommendation not to tow. However, taxation on fuel and vehicles which consume more/pollute more is a more effective model. Heck, the CO2 in the US might accomplish more economy than CAFE. But, then CAFE is generally considered a "good" thing as surveys suggest it has high public support. Compared to a fuel tax, CAFE is incredibly popular. Even compared to other metrics, Americans are "ok" for someone else to be told what to do... even if it impact them. Keep in mind that NHTSA sets fuel economy standards in the US, not the EPA so the likelihood of a CO2 model is unlikely so "mandates" in other forms is necessary in the current US political landscape.
http://www.unep.org/transport/gfei/autotool/case_studies/europe/cs_eu_0.asp
I think that the difference is in the cost of the oil itself.
Motor oil in the US is CHEAP, just like our gasoline. It is not always possible to get direct comparisons, but I think that our motor oil is about half the price of Europe's.
I have no great incentive for extended OCI when I can go to a local Qwik Lube and get a oil and filter change including labor for $39.95 (26 pounds, €36). Yes, I know it is 'just' Pennzoil conventional, but with short OCI and if it satisfies my warranty who cares?
Extended OCI lead to concerns about fuel dilution and oil shearing (ACEA A3/A5 descriptions start with 'Shear stable...)
And concerns about shearing lead to a more shear stable base oil or starting with a high enough weight that you have sufficient margin (xW-40).
Motor oil in the US is CHEAP, just like our gasoline. It is not always possible to get direct comparisons, but I think that our motor oil is about half the price of Europe's.
I have no great incentive for extended OCI when I can go to a local Qwik Lube and get a oil and filter change including labor for $39.95 (26 pounds, €36). Yes, I know it is 'just' Pennzoil conventional, but with short OCI and if it satisfies my warranty who cares?
Extended OCI lead to concerns about fuel dilution and oil shearing (ACEA A3/A5 descriptions start with 'Shear stable...)
And concerns about shearing lead to a more shear stable base oil or starting with a high enough weight that you have sufficient margin (xW-40).
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Longer OCI's???
^Yup. OCI are expected to be longer "over there". I would also bet that a high diesel market share has a roll too (perception and uniform-product retail needs).
(And before folks in foil hats rant about CAFE, they have fuel economy standard there too... and they are much higher. If CAFE has an impact, it is more consumer side as 'mericans still want displacement but "cheap" cost such as fuel.. something has got to give because the free market won't)
The "free market" in Europe means cars the size of shoe boxes.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Longer OCI's???
^Yup. OCI are expected to be longer "over there". I would also bet that a high diesel market share has a roll too (perception and uniform-product retail needs).
(And before folks in foil hats rant about CAFE, they have fuel economy standard there too... and they are much higher. If CAFE has an impact, it is more consumer side as 'mericans still want displacement but "cheap" cost such as fuel.. something has got to give because the free market won't)
The "free market" in Europe means cars the size of shoe boxes.
Don't ya just love it when the stooges tell us a tax is "paid by the manufacturer". No pass through, ever. ROFLMAO.
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
The "free market" in Europe means cars the size of shoe boxes.
Excuse me, don't you mean "quadrabikes".
Our free market allows accountants to drive medium-duty pick-ups as their grocery-getter. Or rather an old Prof. of mine to have both a Prius and an F350... free market allows for stupidity and irrationality.
The "free market" in Europe means cars the size of shoe boxes.
Excuse me, don't you mean "quadrabikes".
Our free market allows accountants to drive medium-duty pick-ups as their grocery-getter. Or rather an old Prof. of mine to have both a Prius and an F350... free market allows for stupidity and irrationality.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
The "free market" in Europe means cars the size of shoe boxes.
Excuse me, don't you mean "quadrabikes".
Our free market allows accountants to drive medium-duty pick-ups as their grocery-getter. Or rather an old Prof. of mine to have both a Prius and an F350... free market allows for stupidity and irrationality.
So, you'll be in charge of what I drive "come the revolution". Seig Heil!
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
The "free market" in Europe means cars the size of shoe boxes.
Excuse me, don't you mean "quadrabikes".
Our free market allows accountants to drive medium-duty pick-ups as their grocery-getter. Or rather an old Prof. of mine to have both a Prius and an F350... free market allows for stupidity and irrationality.
So, you'll be in charge of what I drive "come the revolution". Seig Heil!
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
The "free market" in Europe means cars the size of shoe boxes.
Excuse me, don't you mean "quadrabikes".
Our free market allows accountants to drive medium-duty pick-ups as their grocery-getter. Or rather an old Prof. of mine to have both a Prius and an F350... free market allows for stupidity and irrationality.
So, you'll be in charge of what I drive "come the revolution". Seig Heil!
no, just what you pay
I say "allow just about everything" but just tax the F out of it. Bought a hummer during peak oil, tough cookies. $15 per gallon.... viva la revolution
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
The "free market" in Europe means cars the size of shoe boxes.
Excuse me, don't you mean "quadrabikes".
Our free market allows accountants to drive medium-duty pick-ups as their grocery-getter. Or rather an old Prof. of mine to have both a Prius and an F350... free market allows for stupidity and irrationality.
So, you'll be in charge of what I drive "come the revolution". Seig Heil!
no, just what you pay
I say "allow just about everything" but just tax the F out of it. Bought a hummer during peak oil, tough cookies. $15 per gallon.... viva la revolution
Originally Posted By: Superflan
5W30 is common spec in Europe for DPF engines, or no DPF but long-life OCIs.
5W40 is common spec for Diesels engines without DPF, and newer petrol engines.
10W40 is still commonly used for 2000-2010 petrol engines as base specs, and for some PC diesel engines mounted in small utility vehicles.
15W40, common in agri stuff.
10W50 or 15W50, popular for modified (boost +++) turbo cars (diesel & petrol)
0W20 & 5W20, & 10W30 : Rare things, can barely find them in stores.
plus.....
10w40...10w50...15w50...for motocycles
0wXX and xxW20 hybrid cars mostly...
5W30 is common spec in Europe for DPF engines, or no DPF but long-life OCIs.
5W40 is common spec for Diesels engines without DPF, and newer petrol engines.
10W40 is still commonly used for 2000-2010 petrol engines as base specs, and for some PC diesel engines mounted in small utility vehicles.
15W40, common in agri stuff.
10W50 or 15W50, popular for modified (boost +++) turbo cars (diesel & petrol)
0W20 & 5W20, & 10W30 : Rare things, can barely find them in stores.
plus.....
10w40...10w50...15w50...for motocycles
0wXX and xxW20 hybrid cars mostly...
Originally Posted By: BitterShard
I think that the difference is in the cost of the oil itself.
Motor oil in the US is CHEAP, just like our gasoline. It is not always possible to get direct comparisons, but I think that our motor oil is about half the price of Europe's.
I have no great incentive for extended OCI when I can go to a local Qwik Lube and get a oil and filter change including labor for $39.95 (26 pounds, €36). Yes, I know it is 'just' Pennzoil conventional, but with short OCI and if it satisfies my warranty who cares?
Extended OCI lead to concerns about fuel dilution and oil shearing (ACEA A3/A5 descriptions start with 'Shear stable...)
And concerns about shearing lead to a more shear stable base oil or starting with a high enough weight that you have sufficient margin (xW-40).
even A3/B3/B4 is share stable
I will start like this....
You can use 0w20 water stuf in Yenkee engine...it is just OHV lawn mower engine with addition of EFi...
For every day "tuned" european engines with GDi...turbos....Vtecs you must use somthing thicker
I think that the difference is in the cost of the oil itself.
Motor oil in the US is CHEAP, just like our gasoline. It is not always possible to get direct comparisons, but I think that our motor oil is about half the price of Europe's.
I have no great incentive for extended OCI when I can go to a local Qwik Lube and get a oil and filter change including labor for $39.95 (26 pounds, €36). Yes, I know it is 'just' Pennzoil conventional, but with short OCI and if it satisfies my warranty who cares?
Extended OCI lead to concerns about fuel dilution and oil shearing (ACEA A3/A5 descriptions start with 'Shear stable...)
And concerns about shearing lead to a more shear stable base oil or starting with a high enough weight that you have sufficient margin (xW-40).
even A3/B3/B4 is share stable
I will start like this....
For every day "tuned" european engines with GDi...turbos....Vtecs you must use somthing thicker
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