5th gen Civic: clutch cylinder dry?

[ltslimjim]

Well, I bled the brakes today and then realized my clutch fluid reservoir was dry?!? My brake Master Cylinder is full and didn't get lower than half-full during the process of bleeding the brake lines at each wheel(in proper order), then I topped off the Master Cylinder.

It appears the clutch reservoir is a slave cylinder and shares fluid from the brake master cylinder(???), but why is there a clutch fluid reservoir if it has no fluid in it at all? It appears like 2 ounces could sit in there at most. Will post a pic, but was not sure to add fluid and bleed the clutch(since I'm in the bleeding of system mood still today)?

 

[ltslimjim]

Here is what the manual specs:

Quote:
Bleeding

The hydraulic system must be bled whenever the system has been leaking or dismantled. The bleed screw is located on the slave cylinder.

-Remove the bleed screw dust cap.

-Attach a clear hose to the bleed screw. Immerse the other end of the hose in a clear jar, half-filled with brake fluid.

-Fill the clutch master cylinder with fresh brake fluid.

-Open the bleed screw slightly and have an assistant slowly depress the clutch pedal. Close the bleed screw when the pedal reaches the end of its travel. Allow the clutch pedal to return slowly.

-Repeat until all air bubbles are expelled from the system.

-Properly dispose of the brake fluid in the jar. Install the dust cap. Refill the master cylinder.

 

[SOHCman]

A stock civic will have a separate clutch fluid reservoir, and it should not be empty. When was the last time you drove the vehicle? Did the clutch work fine?

I would top off the reservoir and bleed the slave cylinder as usual and check for leaks. When, if ever have you bled the clutch system before?

One place to especially check for leaks is under the dash where the master cylinder shaft enters the cab. The master cylinder will leak down the inside fire wall and drain your fluid slowly. I have a 5th gen accord with the same components, and thats where mine started leaking last year. If this is your problem, I would recommend an actual OEM Honda master cylinder. Its fairly easy to replace, and will last you another 250K.

 

[SOHCman]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Here is what the manual specs:

Quote:
Bleeding

The hydraulic system must be bled whenever the system has been leaking or dismantled. The bleed screw is located on the slave cylinder.

-Remove the bleed screw dust cap.

-Attach a clear hose to the bleed screw. Immerse the other end of the hose in a clear jar, half-filled with brake fluid.

-Fill the clutch master cylinder with fresh brake fluid.

-Open the bleed screw slightly and have an assistant slowly depress the clutch pedal. Close the bleed screw when the pedal reaches the end of its travel. Allow the clutch pedal to return slowly.

-Repeat until all air bubbles are expelled from the system.

-Properly dispose of the brake fluid in the jar. Install the dust cap. Refill the master cylinder.


Those are the proper specs, let me know if you have questions about replacing the master cylinder (if its the culprit).

 

[mechtech2]

Also, a gravity bleed can work well.
Just open the bleeder and keep the reservoir full!

 

[ltslimjim]

^Ah, I may try that next time. So, pull the bleeder and keep pouring until new fluid comes out and then plug it/top off reservoir completely and proceed to bleed any air out afterward?

I was really worried about air getting in, so I just bled it about 7-8 times. It had a lot of really dark looking fluid that came out compared to the brake fluid that was bled earlier today.

The reservoir for the Clutch Master Cylinder wasn't bone dry in hindsight, it was just below the 'low' mark(ever so slightly). I couldn't see it for the 'floaty' spacer piece of plastic covering the tube beneath the cylinder. Still, I'd imagine most of the fluid at the slave location is still dirty. It may be worn fluid, is all with the degrading rubber(perhaps?) making the fluid real cloudy. Not sure when it was serviced last, definitely was the first time addressing bleeding the brakes/clutch fluid since owning the vehicle(1 1/2 years).

Re-filled brake/clutch cylinders today with Valvoline Dot 3/4 "Synthetic" that I had purchased 2-3 months ago. I suppose it's as good as most for a daily driver. The car specs for Dot 3 or Dot 4 only.

 

[SOHCman]

A trick I use for single-man brake/clutch bleeding is to use a doll rod or breaker bar or something a couple feet long, and
1. wedge it between your drivers seat and the appropriate pedal to apply pressure to the system. (scoot seat forward as necessary)
2. loosen the bleed bolt momentarily to allow the pressurized fluid to escape, if you use a clear hose off the bleed bolt you will see the fluid stop flowing and if air bubbles are coming out
3. reset the wedge on the pedal and repeat several times until the fluid is coming out clean and clear with no bubbles.

This process takes longer than having a helper, but gets the job done. Just be sure to tighten the bleeder bolt quickly to prevent air from slipping back into the system.

As dirty as your fluid was, it might not be a bad idea to bleed it again next OCI to "flush" any contaminates that might be left in there.

 

[garlicbreadman]

clutch and brake should be independent of each other. check the clutch master cylinder for leaks

 

[ltslimjim]

Thankfully, I had an assistant. Yes, I realize now the slave cylinder was on the side of the transmission and the master cylinder was indeed the clutch reservoir I had seen all along. Never touched it, until now.

While I was bleeding the clutch: Ugh, I have terribly caked on GRIME from leaky valve cover gaskets past etc etc...whatever else the previous owner(s?) allowed to go on this vehicle. The transmission is caked with the dirty grime/grit. Any tips to clean this area directly?

 

[MarkM66]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Thankfully, I had an assistant. Yes, I realize now the slave cylinder was on the side of the transmission and the master cylinder was indeed the clutch reservoir I had seen all along. Never touched it, until now.

While I was bleeding the clutch: Ugh, I have terribly caked on GRIME from leaky valve cover gaskets past etc etc...whatever else the previous owner(s?) allowed to go on this vehicle. The transmission is caked with the dirty grime/grit. Any tips to clean this area directly?


Is the leak fixed?

Either way, the transmission being dirty isn't going to hurt anything. It's on the bottom of the car, it's always going to be dirty.

 

[ltslimjim]

Yes, I'm not consuming much...if any, oil by way of leaking. Small 'seeping' from time to time at one of the valve cover bolts, but the gasket was replaced? Anyways, the car has been brought back most of the way on maintenance since ownership 1 1/2 years ago.

I don't mind some caking around the engine itself, but the transmission performs best with proper cooling. I believe the amount of soot I have scrapped off in 'passing' alone would be enough to increase operating temps by 10-20 degree F. Could affect shift quality on an older transmission, especially worn sychros.

 

[SOHCman]

You might try some engine bright GEL, not the regular stuf. The gel actually clings to the surface while it does its work.

Apply it to a warm engine/transmission and let it sit for awhile, blast it off with fresh water from the hose, or do the whole process at a local car wash with the high pressure hose bays.

Another oil leak you may have from that side of the engine is the distributor oring where it enters the head, we have adjustable distributors, so make sure you mark the orientation with a sharpie, and check your timing after you re install it.