502 and 507......interesting graphic
- Thread starter BigJohn
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Well, theory vs practice, the low saps oil may not work ideally with our sulphur-laden fuels.
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These are two separate applications. VW's 502.00 is for gasoline engines. Their 507.00 is for DPF equipped diesel engines. Somewhere in there were a couple of gasoline engines that required the previous 505.01 standard which was also a diesel specification. The fuel type of the engine makes a huge difference on the oil recommendation. The reactive by-product is completely different.
Whew,,VW keeps you busy trying to follow their norms. It's no wonder even the dealerships struggle with trying to provide the proper chemicals. I currently require a 507.00 oil but I think I'm going to modify my requirement once the warranty is completely gone on my exhaust system. I prefer the 5W-40 that Mercedes-Benz specifies for their DPF equipped vehicles so I'm likely going to go that route.
Whew,,VW keeps you busy trying to follow their norms. It's no wonder even the dealerships struggle with trying to provide the proper chemicals. I currently require a 507.00 oil but I think I'm going to modify my requirement once the warranty is completely gone on my exhaust system. I prefer the 5W-40 that Mercedes-Benz specifies for their DPF equipped vehicles so I'm likely going to go that route.
http://www.ifqc.org/NM_Top5.aspx
As you can see gasoline sold in the US has triple the sulfur content of that sold in Germany - AT THE VERY LEAST !
It can contain up to eight times a much !
As you can see gasoline sold in the US has triple the sulfur content of that sold in Germany - AT THE VERY LEAST !
It can contain up to eight times a much !
Originally Posted By: bruno
http://www.ifqc.org/NM_Top5.aspx
As you can see gasoline sold in the US has triple the sulfur content of that sold in Germany - AT THE VERY LEAST !
It can contain up to eight times a much !
Great example of why oils required for today's diesels have such a low TBN. The high TBN isn't required.
http://www.ifqc.org/NM_Top5.aspx
As you can see gasoline sold in the US has triple the sulfur content of that sold in Germany - AT THE VERY LEAST !
It can contain up to eight times a much !
Great example of why oils required for today's diesels have such a low TBN. The high TBN isn't required.
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: bruno
http://www.ifqc.org/NM_Top5.aspx
As you can see gasoline sold in the US has triple the sulfur content of that sold in Germany - AT THE VERY LEAST !
It can contain up to eight times a much !
Great example of why oils required for today's diesels have such a low TBN. The high TBN isn't required.
I didn't think through all the data and application appropriately. The TBN levels are a great example of the difference of 502 and 507 and the need for different oils.
My 2.0T will stay with a 502.
My 3.0TDI will stay with a 507.
Gotta say though.....It would be cool if 502 could cover a larger plot of that graph, like 507 does. But, regardless of a graph....we all know that GC is a phenomenal oil.
Originally Posted By: bruno
http://www.ifqc.org/NM_Top5.aspx
As you can see gasoline sold in the US has triple the sulfur content of that sold in Germany - AT THE VERY LEAST !
It can contain up to eight times a much !
Great example of why oils required for today's diesels have such a low TBN. The high TBN isn't required.
I didn't think through all the data and application appropriately. The TBN levels are a great example of the difference of 502 and 507 and the need for different oils.
My 2.0T will stay with a 502.
My 3.0TDI will stay with a 507.
Gotta say though.....It would be cool if 502 could cover a larger plot of that graph, like 507 does. But, regardless of a graph....we all know that GC is a phenomenal oil.
Originally Posted By: bruno
http://www.ifqc.org/NM_Top5.aspx
As you can see gasoline sold in the US has triple the sulfur content of that sold in Germany - AT THE VERY LEAST !
It can contain up to eight times a much !
The actual regulation requires that gasoline refineries, or importers, maintain a 30ppm average annual sulfur content. The 80ppm limit is to allow for the rare aberration. The limits that have frequently been thrown out around here, when talking about our fuels being "sulfur laden", are in the 500-1000ppm range...
http://www.ifqc.org/NM_Top5.aspx
As you can see gasoline sold in the US has triple the sulfur content of that sold in Germany - AT THE VERY LEAST !
It can contain up to eight times a much !
The actual regulation requires that gasoline refineries, or importers, maintain a 30ppm average annual sulfur content. The 80ppm limit is to allow for the rare aberration. The limits that have frequently been thrown out around here, when talking about our fuels being "sulfur laden", are in the 500-1000ppm range...
Originally Posted By: BigJohn
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: bruno
http://www.ifqc.org/NM_Top5.aspx
As you can see gasoline sold in the US has triple the sulfur content of that sold in Germany - AT THE VERY LEAST !
It can contain up to eight times a much !
Great example of why oils required for today's diesels have such a low TBN. The high TBN isn't required.
I didn't think through all the data and application appropriately. The TBN levels are a great example of the difference of 502 and 507 and the need for different oils.
My 2.0T will stay with a 502.
My 3.0TDI will stay with a 507.
Gotta say though.....It would be cool if 502 could cover a larger plot of that graph, like 507 does. But, regardless of a graph....we all know that GC is a phenomenal oil.
I was actually speaking to the amount of sulphur in US gasoline and how that relates to USLD. This is one reason why diesel engines of today run on a oil which has a low TBN.
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: bruno
http://www.ifqc.org/NM_Top5.aspx
As you can see gasoline sold in the US has triple the sulfur content of that sold in Germany - AT THE VERY LEAST !
It can contain up to eight times a much !
Great example of why oils required for today's diesels have such a low TBN. The high TBN isn't required.
I didn't think through all the data and application appropriately. The TBN levels are a great example of the difference of 502 and 507 and the need for different oils.
My 2.0T will stay with a 502.
My 3.0TDI will stay with a 507.
Gotta say though.....It would be cool if 502 could cover a larger plot of that graph, like 507 does. But, regardless of a graph....we all know that GC is a phenomenal oil.
I was actually speaking to the amount of sulphur in US gasoline and how that relates to USLD. This is one reason why diesel engines of today run on a oil which has a low TBN.
It is not that simple. For one thing VW 502 specs are not usually a stand alone specification ( as 504/ 507 sometimes are as in the european Castrol Edge 5w-30).
For example Shell Helix Ultra is a 502 oil.....but also a MB 229.5 approved which surpasses 504/507 oils in some critical areas based on the Lubizoil Comparative Performance Chart.
Additionally, there are definitely regional variations in fuel quality to be considered. BMW LL 04 covers a "wider area" on the chart when compared with LL01, yet it is NOT approved for use in gasoline engines outside the EU.
For example Shell Helix Ultra is a 502 oil.....but also a MB 229.5 approved which surpasses 504/507 oils in some critical areas based on the Lubizoil Comparative Performance Chart.
Additionally, there are definitely regional variations in fuel quality to be considered. BMW LL 04 covers a "wider area" on the chart when compared with LL01, yet it is NOT approved for use in gasoline engines outside the EU.
VW standard oil in Europe is 504 spec now. It supersedes the 502 spec. VW still wants the North American bound cars to still use the 502 spec. Our gas is not up to the quality of the gas over there. The E10 and higher sulphur kills the low TBN of the 504 spec oils.
502 is a current specification.
http://oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php
Sure no longer used in europe.... so in "temporal" way it has superseded 504, but still a currently used oil specification. ( See PU 5w-40)
http://oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php
Sure no longer used in europe.... so in "temporal" way it has superseded 504, but still a currently used oil specification. ( See PU 5w-40)
Thanks Finklejag, I meant to mention ethanol.
Originally Posted By: felixthecat
502 is a current specification.
http://oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php
Sure no longer used in europe.... so in "temporal" way it has superseded 504, but still a currently used oil specification. ( See PU 5w-40)
502 is still used in the US because we are on fixed service intervals. 504 replaced the 503 oils, which were long-life oils which are better quality, more expensive than the 502 oils, and are intended to be used with variable service intervals. Since 504 is more expensive, there's no reason to require it for short fixed intervals, hence the recommendation to stick with 502 in the US.
502 is a current specification.
http://oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php
Sure no longer used in europe.... so in "temporal" way it has superseded 504, but still a currently used oil specification. ( See PU 5w-40)
502 is still used in the US because we are on fixed service intervals. 504 replaced the 503 oils, which were long-life oils which are better quality, more expensive than the 502 oils, and are intended to be used with variable service intervals. Since 504 is more expensive, there's no reason to require it for short fixed intervals, hence the recommendation to stick with 502 in the US.
Originally Posted By: FowVay
These are two separate applications. VW's 502.00 is for gasoline engines. Their 507.00 is for DPF equipped diesel engines. Somewhere in there were a couple of gasoline engines that required the previous 505.01 standard which was also a diesel specification. The fuel type of the engine makes a huge difference on the oil recommendation. The reactive by-product is completely different.
Whew,,VW keeps you busy trying to follow their norms. It's no wonder even the dealerships struggle with trying to provide the proper chemicals. I currently require a 507.00 oil but I think I'm going to modify my requirement once the warranty is completely gone on my exhaust system. I prefer the 5W-40 that Mercedes-Benz specifies for their DPF equipped vehicles so I'm likely going to go that route.
505.01 is the fixed interval PD engine oil spec bud, it has no application for petrol engines, 502.00 is the fixed interval petrol engine oil spec. 507.00 is the variable service low saps diesel oil and 504.00 is the variable service petrol engine spec.
I really wouldn't use the MB dpf oil for VW engines as they are completely different engine technologies, just because it has MB approval doesn't mean it's better than a VW spec in fact i think the reverse is true. Almost all fixed interval VW spec (502.00 505.01 505.00)5w-30 oils that do not have the VW507.00 504.00 approval have the MB 229.31 229.51 spec but not the other way around. If you have a SOHC diesel engine defo only use the VW approved oil otherwise say goodbye to your camshaft in 80 - 100 k.
hope this helps
These are two separate applications. VW's 502.00 is for gasoline engines. Their 507.00 is for DPF equipped diesel engines. Somewhere in there were a couple of gasoline engines that required the previous 505.01 standard which was also a diesel specification. The fuel type of the engine makes a huge difference on the oil recommendation. The reactive by-product is completely different.
Whew,,VW keeps you busy trying to follow their norms. It's no wonder even the dealerships struggle with trying to provide the proper chemicals. I currently require a 507.00 oil but I think I'm going to modify my requirement once the warranty is completely gone on my exhaust system. I prefer the 5W-40 that Mercedes-Benz specifies for their DPF equipped vehicles so I'm likely going to go that route.
505.01 is the fixed interval PD engine oil spec bud, it has no application for petrol engines, 502.00 is the fixed interval petrol engine oil spec. 507.00 is the variable service low saps diesel oil and 504.00 is the variable service petrol engine spec.
I really wouldn't use the MB dpf oil for VW engines as they are completely different engine technologies, just because it has MB approval doesn't mean it's better than a VW spec in fact i think the reverse is true. Almost all fixed interval VW spec (502.00 505.01 505.00)5w-30 oils that do not have the VW507.00 504.00 approval have the MB 229.31 229.51 spec but not the other way around. If you have a SOHC diesel engine defo only use the VW approved oil otherwise say goodbye to your camshaft in 80 - 100 k.
hope this helps
Originally Posted By: riggaz
Originally Posted By: FowVay
These are two separate applications. VW's 502.00 is for gasoline engines. Their 507.00 is for DPF equipped diesel engines. Somewhere in there were a couple of gasoline engines that required the previous 505.01 standard which was also a diesel specification. The fuel type of the engine makes a huge difference on the oil recommendation. The reactive by-product is completely different.
Whew,,VW keeps you busy trying to follow their norms. It's no wonder even the dealerships struggle with trying to provide the proper chemicals. I currently require a 507.00 oil but I think I'm going to modify my requirement once the warranty is completely gone on my exhaust system. I prefer the 5W-40 that Mercedes-Benz specifies for their DPF equipped vehicles so I'm likely going to go that route.
505.01 is the fixed interval PD engine oil spec bud, it has no application for petrol engines, 502.00 is the fixed interval petrol engine oil spec. 507.00 is the variable service low saps diesel oil and 504.00 is the variable service petrol engine spec.
I really wouldn't use the MB dpf oil for VW engines as they are completely different engine technologies, just because it has MB approval doesn't mean it's better than a VW spec in fact i think the reverse is true. Almost all fixed interval VW spec (502.00 505.01 505.00)5w-30 oils that do not have the VW507.00 504.00 approval have the MB 229.31 229.51 spec but not the other way around. If you have a SOHC diesel engine defo only use the VW approved oil otherwise say goodbye to your camshaft in 80 - 100 k.
hope this helps
Hi-po petrol, the RS6, specs 505.01.
http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2596395
http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?p=22451755
Originally Posted By: FowVay
These are two separate applications. VW's 502.00 is for gasoline engines. Their 507.00 is for DPF equipped diesel engines. Somewhere in there were a couple of gasoline engines that required the previous 505.01 standard which was also a diesel specification. The fuel type of the engine makes a huge difference on the oil recommendation. The reactive by-product is completely different.
Whew,,VW keeps you busy trying to follow their norms. It's no wonder even the dealerships struggle with trying to provide the proper chemicals. I currently require a 507.00 oil but I think I'm going to modify my requirement once the warranty is completely gone on my exhaust system. I prefer the 5W-40 that Mercedes-Benz specifies for their DPF equipped vehicles so I'm likely going to go that route.
505.01 is the fixed interval PD engine oil spec bud, it has no application for petrol engines, 502.00 is the fixed interval petrol engine oil spec. 507.00 is the variable service low saps diesel oil and 504.00 is the variable service petrol engine spec.
I really wouldn't use the MB dpf oil for VW engines as they are completely different engine technologies, just because it has MB approval doesn't mean it's better than a VW spec in fact i think the reverse is true. Almost all fixed interval VW spec (502.00 505.01 505.00)5w-30 oils that do not have the VW507.00 504.00 approval have the MB 229.31 229.51 spec but not the other way around. If you have a SOHC diesel engine defo only use the VW approved oil otherwise say goodbye to your camshaft in 80 - 100 k.
hope this helps
Hi-po petrol, the RS6, specs 505.01.
http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2596395
http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?p=22451755
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