The Acura Vigor from 92 to 94 came with a 5 cyl inline, about 175 hp. In retrospect regret not getting one of those back then, having driven one with a stick shift. It was kind of a blast driving it thru hilly terrain.
5 Cylinder Engines
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From what I have observed. You cannot get more than 60hp per liter without one or more of the following; Variable valve timing, variable intake, turbo, supercharger, etc. Anyone know of any exceptions?
Volvo 2.5 x 60 = 150hp.
All Mitsu V6 engines follow this rule.
Chrysler Hemi 5.7 x 60 = 340hp
Many cars get less hp per cylinder. Anyone have an example of a stock engine that gets more than 60hp per liter?
Volvo 2.5 x 60 = 150hp.
All Mitsu V6 engines follow this rule.
Chrysler Hemi 5.7 x 60 = 340hp
Many cars get less hp per cylinder. Anyone have an example of a stock engine that gets more than 60hp per liter?
Does the Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS' 2.5L engine have variable valve timing or a variable intake? I know its not turbocharged. It produces 165 hp and 166 lb/ft of torque.
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I could be wrong ..but I sware that 70's Ferraris had somewhere around 400 hp in under 5 liters ..and MB routinely boasted of greater than 1hp/cid(or 61hp/liter) during the same time frame.
The SOHC 427 produced 700hp NA for Lemans ..but was detuned to 500 hp to last 24 hours.
Did you miss asigning some confines to that limit? Like emissions compliant or something??
Although ..even the 502/502 crate motor falls into this "rule"
One of the most reliable engines of all time is the 1978-85 3 liter turbocharged diesel Mercedes Benz 5 cylinder.
Honda racing chose a weird V-5 it's latest race bike. It was just the right compromise in torque and hp and chassis weighting for the application. Other configurations would have made more power.
Volvo's 5 cylinder engine is part of a modular family of engines designed in 4, 5 and 6 cylinder. They use the same internal components (pistons, con rods, valves etc) and are build on the same assembly line to save costs. The engine was developed by Porsche under contract for Volvo in the late 80s and early 90s. A lot of the design technology in this engine such as the integrated valve cover later found its way into Porsche's water cooled engines.
This is a good technical description about this engine and its development.
http://www.pukema.com/vitmotor.pdf
150hp/2.0=75hp/L
No variable length intake, no VVT. Just a simple, cheap engine designed more than a decade ago.
This is a good technical description about this engine and its development.
http://www.pukema.com/vitmotor.pdf
Dodge Neon 2.0 DOHC and later SOHC
150hp/2.0=75hp/L
No variable length intake, no VVT. Just a simple, cheap engine designed more than a decade ago.
No - the Impreza RS has the same EJ25 2.5L as the Legacy and Outback. I know that the EZ30 3L H6 in the current Legacy/Outback has VVT, as well as the STi Impreza, but I'm honestly not sure about the other turbo models in the Forester/Outback/Legacy.
jtantare said;
"In early 2001, the Neon R/T and ACR were re-introduced to the world. Both come with a single-cam, 150 horsepower version of the standard 133 hp 2.0 "Magnum" engine, which makes extra power from an active intake manifold and many tuning details. Rich Hutchinson tells us that the ACR is a low option, race oriented vehicle - an R/T without any fluff."
So, it sounds like the 2L Neon engine has a variable intake manifold in order to achieve 150hp. (75hp/liter) Variable intakes are not often advertised by the mfg.
The current base Neon boasts 132hp for their 2 liter engine. This also breaks my rule (132/2=66hp/liter), but I am not sure whether there is something extra on that engine too.
So, the Suburu at 2.5L and 165hp would be 66hp/liter. Maybe 66hp/liter is the new number?
[ May 25, 2005, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: Winston ]
However, on allpar.com I found the following info.
"In early 2001, the Neon R/T and ACR were re-introduced to the world. Both come with a single-cam, 150 horsepower version of the standard 133 hp 2.0 "Magnum" engine, which makes extra power from an active intake manifold and many tuning details. Rich Hutchinson tells us that the ACR is a low option, race oriented vehicle - an R/T without any fluff."
So, it sounds like the 2L Neon engine has a variable intake manifold in order to achieve 150hp. (75hp/liter) Variable intakes are not often advertised by the mfg.
The current base Neon boasts 132hp for their 2 liter engine. This also breaks my rule (132/2=66hp/liter), but I am not sure whether there is something extra on that engine too.
So, the Suburu at 2.5L and 165hp would be 66hp/liter. Maybe 66hp/liter is the new number?
[ May 25, 2005, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: Winston ]
95-00 Neon DOHC produces 150HP. Its **** quick too with only 2400lb to push around.
SPECS
And while we are at it, how about mid 90s Acura integra NON VTEC.
140hp from 1.8 litre = 78.8hp/L
SPECS
Mercedes C36. No VVT, no variable length intake
268hp / 3.6L = 74.4hp/L
SPECS
BMW M5 (1993)
310hp / 3.6L = 86.1hp/L
SPECS
Ford Contour SVT
200hp / 2.5L = 80hp/L
SPECS
[ May 25, 2005, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: jtantare ]
That's a bad assumption to make. Many racing engines have topped that figure. BTW that figure is very close to the "1hp per CI" that people have been talking about for years. The Current corvette engine, the LS2, tops that figure by over 10%, even with OHV.
-T
OK. So, that Chrysler 2L DOHC can do 75hp per liter. Impressive. Acura is almost 79. I wonder how they do it? It looks like they do it by increasing the redline. The Chrysler gets it max hp at 6800rpm. Acura at 6300. Although MSN Autos says that Acura gets the max hp at 7000rpm.
So, in order to get more than 60-65hp per liter you need to go over the typical 6000 rpm.
This begs the question, what is the maximum torque per liter.
Any other examples?
T-Kieth,
As far as my assumption. Racing applications are completely different. I was looking for stock production vehicles. My purpose in this is trying to quantify technologies that improve hp/liter ratio. You are right the 60hp/liter is the same as 1hp/ci. For engines that exceed that ratio, there is usually something special about the engine technology that allows them to do it. I am just trying to learn what those technologies are. I have just discovered that a higher redline will do it.(thinking about it now that seems obvious). How does the LS7 and ecotec engines do it? Right now my list includes; variable valve timing, variable air intake, turbo, supercharger, redline above 6000rpm, maybe I should include DOHC. Anything I am missing?
[ May 25, 2005, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: Winston ]
So, in order to get more than 60-65hp per liter you need to go over the typical 6000 rpm.
This begs the question, what is the maximum torque per liter.
Any other examples?
T-Kieth,
As far as my assumption. Racing applications are completely different. I was looking for stock production vehicles. My purpose in this is trying to quantify technologies that improve hp/liter ratio. You are right the 60hp/liter is the same as 1hp/ci. For engines that exceed that ratio, there is usually something special about the engine technology that allows them to do it. I am just trying to learn what those technologies are. I have just discovered that a higher redline will do it.(thinking about it now that seems obvious). How does the LS7 and ecotec engines do it? Right now my list includes; variable valve timing, variable air intake, turbo, supercharger, redline above 6000rpm, maybe I should include DOHC. Anything I am missing?
[ May 25, 2005, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: Winston ]
Yes a Volvo I6 92-94 201 HP from a 2.9 liter naturally asperated 24 valve. That works out to 69.3 HP per liter. My 97 960 only makes 181 hp due to a Volvo cam change made in 95. It still makes 62.4 hp per liter. 172 ci making 181 hp isn't bad. 1.05 hp per ci.
You have a pretty good list of the ingredients to success. All of those factors work. If you noticed in my list, all of the examples are from the 90s when VVT was not common or cheap. Today is a completely different story. VVT and variable lift technology has become relatively cheap and common place. Its much easier for manufacturer to use VVT than strotospheric RPMs. Also most modern street engines are tuned to produce high torque and low emissions at most RPMs on 87 octane gas. To most daily drivers this is more important that absolute peak hp.
I want to know how Ford gets 80hp/liter in their Contour.
Ford Contour SVT
200hp / 2.5L = 80hp/L
As far as the older Volvo, there was something different about that older 960. I think it had no low end torque. Plus, doesn't it have variable air intake?
Ford Contour SVT
200hp / 2.5L = 80hp/L
As far as the older Volvo, there was something different about that older 960. I think it had no low end torque. Plus, doesn't it have variable air intake?
I wish.... 4.0x60 = 240hp...darn. Stock 4.0Ls have as little as 177hp - 195hp. My ZJ came with a 190hp varient without a dual lobed cam so the max torque is at 3800 rpm, opposed to 3000 on the newer models. I have an exhaust system and some various mods that push the power to about 210hp.
They get that power with a different head and nicely tuned dual intake runners. I'm waiting for brianl703 to chime in... he knows alot about those engines. I guess thats variable air intake... but its not variable valved timing.
3.0L Ford Durtec - 66.66hp/L without VVT.
Mazda 6's version.... 73.333 with VVT.
Non VVT-i 3.0L V6 in Camry - 62.6
3.5L 24 valve Chrysler - 71.42
[ May 25, 2005, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: JeepZJ4.0 ]
Back on topic... 5 cyl. engines are neat. They have a hard to tune exhaust note but I know that feeling because I have the 4.0L inline six from years ago. Its awesome. The Magnaflow system I have makes it sound like an old tractor. My friend has an 02 S60 with the naturally asperated 2.4L 5cyl. Its smooth and quite powerful for the mass it has to pull around.
Would've been kind of an anchor for large ships, with all that cast iron , donja think?quote:
Originally posted by cousincletus:
I would have liked to see a V-12 made from the Chrysler slant six.
You forgot V-10's.
BTW an even firing order is only one aspect of balance. Lots of those balnced firing order arrangements have BIG mechanical imbalances - rocking couples, second order vibrations, etc.
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