5.1 sound bar?

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by grampi
Yes, I meant simulate. Maybe my hearing has deteriorated enough that I can't tell the difference anymore, but the sound bars I've heard sound good enough that I'm willing to give up the cluttered mess of running separate speakers and all the wiring. Isn't a 3.1 system just left, right, center, and sub? A sound bar, or least the ones I'm looking at, simulate 5.1 or 7.1, and in my system the .1 will be a separate sub (I'm looking at the HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP)...depending on which sound bar I end up with, it should sound pretty darn good...

Do any soundbars out there do proper bass management, meaning internally crossing over upper frequencies to the main speakers while sending lower frequencies to the sub, and also directing the .1 discrete channel to the sub for all LFE content, like a home theater receiver does? Or is the subwoofer output on these soundbars just a dummy full range mono output and then you have to rely on your subwoofer's own crossover to try to make it blend in with the rest?

The other big thing that you'll be missing is room correction that most HT receivers offer these days. This really helps even out frequency response due to imperfections of your room setup, remove standing waves, address reflections, etc. Some of the better ones will also EQ the sub.

Alas, I understand wanting to give some of it up in order to reduce clutter.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by grampi
Isn't a 3.1 system just left, right, center, and sub? A sound bar, or least the ones I'm looking at, simulate 5.1 or 7.1, and in my system the .1 will be a separate sub (I'm looking at the HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP)...depending on which sound bar I end up with, it should sound pretty darn good...


Yes, a 3.1 is exactly as described: Left, right and centre with a dedicated sub. It's a good basis for comparison with a sound bar, as that's essentially what you are getting there, but with a narrower spacing. Regardless of emulation/simulation, there's only so much you can do with a group of small centre-clustered speakers. My 3.1 setup is fed full surround information, which is then processed to fit the configuration, which is the same thing the sound bar does. It provides what comes off as ~180 degrees of sound stage, maybe a bit wider; does a very good job of making things sound like they are coming from the side, and portraying height and depth. I'm using a 7.1 receiver but haven't felt the need to add the remainder of the channels to the configuration due to the complexity of doing so and the fact that 75% of what I do in front of the system is listen to music.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by grampi
Yes, I meant simulate. Maybe my hearing has deteriorated enough that I can't tell the difference anymore, but the sound bars I've heard sound good enough that I'm willing to give up the cluttered mess of running separate speakers and all the wiring. Isn't a 3.1 system just left, right, center, and sub? A sound bar, or least the ones I'm looking at, simulate 5.1 or 7.1, and in my system the .1 will be a separate sub (I'm looking at the HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP)...depending on which sound bar I end up with, it should sound pretty darn good...

Do any soundbars out there do proper bass management, meaning internally crossing over upper frequencies to the main speakers while sending lower frequencies to the sub, and also directing the .1 discrete channel to the sub for all LFE content, like a home theater receiver does? Or is the subwoofer output on these soundbars just a dummy full range mono output and then you have to rely on your subwoofer's own crossover to try to make it blend in with the rest?

The other big thing that you'll be missing is room correction that most HT receivers offer these days. This really helps even out frequency response due to imperfections of your room setup. Some of the better ones will also EQ the sub.

Alas, I understand wanting to give some of it up in order to reduce clutter.


Both the Paradigm and Sonos sound bars that I've recently installed do room correction. The Paradigm one comes with a setup mic, the Sonos one uses your phone. A sub was not used with either of them, so I cannot comment on that part.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by grampi
Yes, I meant simulate. Maybe my hearing has deteriorated enough that I can't tell the difference anymore, but the sound bars I've heard sound good enough that I'm willing to give up the cluttered mess of running separate speakers and all the wiring. Isn't a 3.1 system just left, right, center, and sub? A sound bar, or least the ones I'm looking at, simulate 5.1 or 7.1, and in my system the .1 will be a separate sub (I'm looking at the HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP)...depending on which sound bar I end up with, it should sound pretty darn good...

Do any soundbars out there do proper bass management, meaning internally crossing over upper frequencies to the main speakers while sending lower frequencies to the sub, and also directing the .1 discrete channel to the sub for all LFE content, like a home theater receiver does? Or is the subwoofer output on these soundbars just a dummy full range mono output and then you have to rely on your subwoofer's own crossover to try to make it blend in with the rest?

The other big thing that you'll be missing is room correction that most HT receivers offer these days. This really helps even out frequency response due to imperfections of your room setup, remove standing waves, address reflections, etc. Some of the better ones will also EQ the sub.

Alas, I understand wanting to give some of it up in order to reduce clutter.

Good questions I can't answer. As far as the crossover goes, it doesn't really matter as long as the sub has a crossover, which I know the HSU does, as do most powered subs. Some higher end sound bars come with a mic and they will automatically tailor the sound to your room. I can only assume it adjusts the sub as well...this is all good stuff to learn about, and I'm doing a lot of research on it...seems like every time I learn about one thing, it creates 3 more questions!

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by grampi
As far as the crossover goes, it doesn't really matter as long as the sub has a crossover,

Yeah, it's not the same.

If the soundbar continues to send full frequency range (including bass) to its own speakers, then you're basically asking these tiny speakers to reproduce frequencies which they cannot reproduce, and that just results in unnecessary distortion.

 

[ondarvr]

At my old place I had. 7.1, the sound was great, but as you mentioned, the wires were a hassle. When I bought a new tv the sound was so unbelievably bad I picked up a sound bar a week later. I used the sound bar 99% of the time. When watching a movie I was always trying to dial the 7.1 sound in for the exact movie, it irritated my wife.

Moved and didn't even unpack the 7.1, went straight to the sound bar. It does a good enough job, not great, but the hassle of setting up the 7.1 and only using it for what it could do so rarely it didn't seem worth it.

I will probably upgrade to another Soundbar in the near future.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by grampi
As far as the crossover goes, it doesn't really matter as long as the sub has a crossover,

Yeah, it's not the same.

If the soundbar continues to send full frequency range (including bass) to its own speakers, then you're basically asking these tiny speakers to reproduce frequencies which they cannot reproduce, and that just results in unnecessary distortion.


I can't imagine the drivers in a sound bar wouldn't at least be passively crossed over (if not actively) to prevent drivers from receiving frequencies they can't handle. If that were the case, you wouldn't be able to get any volume at all without distortion...they aren't going to be feeding 20Hz to a 2" driver...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by ondarvr
At my old place I had. 7.1, the sound was great, but as you mentioned, the wires were a hassle. When I bought a new tv the sound was so unbelievably bad I picked up a sound bar a week later. I used the sound bar 99% of the time. When watching a movie I was always trying to dial the 7.1 sound in for the exact movie, it irritated my wife.

Moved and didn't even unpack the 7.1, went straight to the sound bar. It does a good enough job, not great, but the hassle of setting up the 7.1 and only using it for what it could do so rarely it didn't seem worth it.

I will probably upgrade to another Soundbar in the near future.

I'm guessing your sound bar was not a $1500+ one? Not saying you'll have to spend this much to get a good one, but I'd bet the difference between one of these and say a $200 one would be night and day...

 

[emg]

We have a Vizio sound bar with wireless rear speakers and subwoofer. It's not the most powerful ever, but it can shake the floor if I turn the volume up.

The subwoofer is powered and gets the audio from the sound-bar by Bluetooth. Then feeds the two rear speakers. Sound is optical from the TV, but there are multiple different inputs.

It's this one, but looks like it's out of production: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00SMBGP76/

 

[Toros]

Originally Posted by emg
We have a Vizio sound bar with wireless rear speakers and subwoofer. It's not the most powerful ever, but it can shake the floor if I turn the volume up.

The subwoofer is powered and gets the audio from the sound-bar by Bluetooth. Then feeds the two rear speakers. Sound is optical from the TV, but there are multiple different inputs.

It's this one, but looks like it's out of production: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00SMBGP76/

Got the same one. Got it three years ago from Costco. It sounds excellent for the space it's in.... which is very open. I went the optical route after the ARC connection became buggy.

 

[Toros]

Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Yeah, I agree, if and that is if someone wants a theater experience, they are not going to get it from a sound bar but most for most people its good enough, its always been that way, sound for the masses and sound for the bit more discriminating, whatever makes one happy. Just the fact that so many people are happy with streaming music and satellite radio says what is good enough for most people.
Nothing wrong with it, we all do what makes us happy.

I agree, as you experienced, I wouldn't be happy with the sound bar in my size room, heck Ive been playing movie sound through a hifi system since the almost first Panasonic VHS with HIFI audio came out.
And son of a gun, I just did a search and darn, this looks exactly like it ... on eBay no less ... Panasonic Omivision PV-1740 (the good old days *L*)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Pa...9?hash=item2adcdf12c9:g:n-cAAOSw8o9d~-su

(no doubt in my mind this is the model)

It depends on which sound bar you're talking about, and the room it's in. The one my bro-in-law has is a $159 Samsung, not a high end unit at all, and I was shocked at how well it sounds. It's as clear as any speakers, and it does a good job at projecting directional sounds. It can makes sounds sound like they're coming 90 degrees left or right. About the only thing it can't do is reproduce the sounds coming from directly behind the listener, and it doesn't have voice enhancement, which is a feature I want. There are sound bars now that will do 5.1 and 7.1, and do it effectively. Maybe a professional audiophile can hear the difference between a good sound bar and a full surround system, but I have heard sound bars that sound just as good, thing is, I don't know if I want to spend that much $$$ on one...


I think you mean emulate 5.1 and 7.1

There is no way you are getting 5 or 7 discrete speaker positions from something that exclusively sits in front of the listener. However, you can certainly make it sound like you have a broader sound stage and even cast placement of sounds to emulate one of those setups reasonably effectively, which I believe is what you are actually saying.

I've installed both the Sonos sound bar as well as the Paradigm one and while they both sound good, my 3.1 setup sounds significantly better in terms of providing a full-range sound experience, something you simply cannot replicate with drivers the size of those in a sound bar.

Yes, I meant simulate. Maybe my hearing has deteriorated enough that I can't tell the difference anymore, but the sound bars I've heard sound good enough that I'm willing to give up the cluttered mess of running separate speakers and all the wiring. Isn't a 3.1 system just left, right, center, and sub? A sound bar, or least the ones I'm looking at, simulate 5.1 or 7.1, and in my system the .1 will be a separate sub (I'm looking at the HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP)...depending on which sound bar I end up with, it should sound pretty darn good...

Agreed. I have an excellent 5.1 system.... sitting in boxes in my basement and run a Vizio 5.1 soundbars now in its place. Sure you compromise sound quality for simplicity and aesthetics but I'm impressed with what they have done with soundbars technology lately.

 

[Olas]

I looked at soundbars but decided they were a waste of time. My stereo is already a 10 speaker surround sound system so the cheapest and best sounding option was to play film audio throughh the stereo.

For any of you guys that already have a good stereo, why not just use it for audio stuff instead of buying more equipment?

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by Toros
Originally Posted by emg
We have a Vizio sound bar with wireless rear speakers and subwoofer. It's not the most powerful ever, but it can shake the floor if I turn the volume up.

The subwoofer is powered and gets the audio from the sound-bar by Bluetooth. Then feeds the two rear speakers. Sound is optical from the TV, but there are multiple different inputs.

It's this one, but looks like it's out of production: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00SMBGP76/

Got the same one. Got it three years ago from Costco. It sounds excellent for the space it's in.... which is very open. I went the optical route after the ARC connection became buggy.


Did you notice any difference in sound quality when going from the ARC connection to the optical?

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by Olas
I looked at soundbars but decided they were a waste of time. My stereo is already a 10 speaker surround sound system so the cheapest and best sounding option was to play film audio throughh the stereo.

For any of you guys that already have a good stereo, why not just use it for audio stuff instead of buying more equipment?


I can't speak for everyone, but for me my 5.1 system was just too much stuff cluttering up the living room. If my living room was more conventionally shaped I could use in-wall mounted speakers and run the wires insides the walls and just have wall outlets for the speaker connections, but because of the odd shape of my listening area, that isn't an option for me. My solution is using a sound bar...

 

[Toros]

Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by Toros
Originally Posted by emg
We have a Vizio sound bar with wireless rear speakers and subwoofer. It's not the most powerful ever, but it can shake the floor if I turn the volume up.

The subwoofer is powered and gets the audio from the sound-bar by Bluetooth. Then feeds the two rear speakers. Sound is optical from the TV, but there are multiple different inputs.

It's this one, but looks like it's out of production: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00SMBGP76/

Got the same one. Got it three years ago from Costco. It sounds excellent for the space it's in.... which is very open. I went the optical route after the ARC connection became buggy.


Did you notice any difference in sound quality when going from the ARC connection to the optical?

None.

 

[Toros]

Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by Olas
I looked at soundbars but decided they were a waste of time. My stereo is already a 10 speaker surround sound system so the cheapest and best sounding option was to play film audio throughh the stereo.

For any of you guys that already have a good stereo, why not just use it for audio stuff instead of buying more equipment?


I can't speak for everyone, but for me my 5.1 system was just too much stuff cluttering up the living room. If my living room was more conventionally shaped I could use in-wall mounted speakers and run the wires insides the walls and just have wall outlets for the speaker connections, but because of the odd shape of my listening area, that isn't an option for me. My solution is using a sound bar...

I believe your situation is a common one and lends itself to the popularity of sound bars.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by Toros
I believe your situation is a common one and lends itself to the popularity of sound bars.
Yup, it's a fairly popular middle ground between built-in TV speakers and a full blown home theater setup with a gazillion of speakers and wires. And some of the soundbars come with decent sized powered subwoofers these days, but if you have a really large room, like OP, then I completely understand his preference for an even bigger/better sub, just as long as the soundbar can keep up with it.