4L60E ECCC vs. non?

[Alex_V]

I may have gotten myself in a pickle, but maybe somebody can help me out.

I'm putting a transmission in a '98 Chevy K1500. While waiting for the customer to come up with the money for a reman unit, I heard about a well-regarded transmission rebuilder that had passed away and his stock of rebuilt transmissions was being liquidated for $200 each so I picked one up. The closest one I could find was for a '96-7, but a quick search indicated as long as the output housing, etc. was the same (4 bolt vs. 6 bolt) the only meaningful difference should be the location of the cooler lines. The truck has the removable bell housing, the new tranny has an integral BH.

Now that I'm about ready to do the swap, I've learned about the ECCC converter that the '98 truck should have, but the '96-7 wouldn't, and I can't find any solid information about compatibility or which converter I'll need. I've found people saying they used one transmission in place of the other and it worked fine, but can't find specifics to confirm if the non-ECCC converter (correct for my replacement transmission) will play well with the truck's electronics, etc.

Any help?

 

[tnt31]

You may want to PM member clinebarger.

 

[14Accent]

If you put a regular converter in an ECC application it will burn up the clutch in short order. The ECC converters are designed to slip, and the computer controls it as such. You may be out of luck.

There was a TSB released for the 4T80 that converted the ECC to a regular clutch, it required changing the TCC solenoid, the ECM programming, and the torque converter. I'm not sure if the 4L60 ever got that option.

 

[MrMoody]

Originally Posted by 14Accent
If you put a regular converter in an ECC application it will burn up the clutch in short order.
This.
Quote
There was a TSB released for the 4T80 that converted the ECC to a regular clutch, it required changing the TCC solenoid, the ECM programming

Yes, I think you can reprogram the ECM to run a non-ECC trans, OR you can upgrade(?) the trans by changing solenoid, wiring harness?, valve and torque converter. But clinebarger is the local expert.

 

[EricG]

Deleted

 

[clinebarger]

As 14Accent was saying...... ECCC controlled lock-up requires a Woven Carbon faced converter clutch. Use of a Cellulose based friction will result in failure.

Purchasing the correct torque converter will correct any possible issues! The converter you pull out of the truck will have a sticker with a 4 digit code. Use that code to order a rebuilt replacement converter.

Make sure the Pump Housing has PWM cast into it! Easy to see before you install the torque converter. This assures you have a '96 & up PWM unit

*ALL Integral Bellhousing 4L60E cases have FOUR bolts for the extension housing/T-case Adapter!!
*ALL Removable Bellhousing/Modular 4L60E cases have SIX bolts for the extension housing/T-case Adaptor!!
While it's possible to swap these with each other......It's usually not worth the effort because the different T-case Adapter, Need to relocate the crossmember slightly, And the Dipstick & Tube can be different enough to cause issues.....Mock it up on the trans before installing it, Make sure the Tube enter & seats into the Boot Seal at the correct angle!!!
IIRC...... The the 4-bolt T-Case adapter is SHORTER to make-up for the LONGER case used on Integral Bell 4L60E. But make sure to measure the overall length of the unit with the adapter! There are several different T-case adapters that will bolt to a 4-bolt case!.....For example, A TH350/NP208 adapter looks similar to a 4L60E/NP241 adapter & will bolt-up, But be the wrong length.
The cooler lines are easy enough to reform, But the least of the possible issues!

Of coarse the 4L60E you buy will need to be for a 4wd application (Output shaft is shorter than a 2wd Output)


In closing, For future reference.......TransGo SK-4L60E shift kit comes with a reconfigured TCC Regulator Valve & Spring that eliminates the PWM function hydraulically with NO other modifications. Highly recommended in ALL PWM 4L60E's besides the ones behind AFM engines.
*I've had a couple complaints of "Abrupt TCC Lock-up" by some of the more discerning customers, After explaining that it extends converter clutch life 10-fold....They are OK with it!

 

[clinebarger]

If you do decide to swap a 4-Bolt case 4L60E into this truck.....This being an extension of what I already stated about the Mount location.

*Do Not force the mount! No matter how close it is Front to Back......Slot the hole in the crossmember more or Slot the frame holes. The mount must be in a neutral/relaxed position or it will fail in short order!

 

[14Accent]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
As 14Accent was saying...... ECCC controlled lock-up requires a Woven Carbon faced converter clutch. Use of a Cellulose based friction will result in failure.

Purchasing the correct torque converter will correct any possible issues! The converter you pull out of the truck will have a sticker with a 4 digit code. Use that code to order a rebuilt replacement converter.

Make sure the Pump Housing has PWM cast into it! Easy to see before you install the torque converter. This assures you have a '96 & up PWM unit

*ALL Integral Bellhousing 4L60E cases have FOUR bolts for the extension housing/T-case Adapter!!
*ALL Removable Bellhousing/Modular 4L60E cases have SIX bolts for the extension housing/T-case Adaptor!!
While it's possible to swap these with each other......It's usually not worth the effort because the different T-case Adapter, Need to relocate the crossmember slightly, And the Dipstick & Tube can be different enough to cause issues.....Mock it up on the trans before installing it, Make sure the Tube enter & seats into the Boot Seal at the correct angle!!!
IIRC...... The the 4-bolt T-Case adapter is SHORTER to make-up for the LONGER case used on Integral Bell 4L60E. But make sure to measure the overall length of the unit with the adapter! There are several different T-case adapters that will bolt to a 4-bolt case!.....For example, A TH350/NP208 adapter looks similar to a 4L60E/NP241 adapter & will bolt-up, But be the wrong length.
The cooler lines are easy enough to reform, But the least of the possible issues!

Of coarse the 4L60E you buy will need to be for a 4wd application (Output shaft is shorter than a 2wd Output)


In closing, For future reference.......TransGo SK-4L60E shift kit comes with a reconfigured TCC Regulator Valve & Spring that eliminates the PWM function hydraulically with NO other modifications. Highly recommended in ALL PWM 4L60E's besides the ones behind AFM engines.
*I've had a couple complaints of "Abrupt TCC Lock-up" by some of the more discerning customers, After explaining that it extends converter clutch life 10-fold....They are OK with it!



You, sir, are a genius. Just what I wanted to say, without the in depth knowledge to say it. I read about some of the same complaints from Cadillac owners, once the converter was replaced an the PWM function disabled they would complain about an abrupt lockup (just what the PWM was supposed to correct). It took some explaining, but eventually the outcome was the same: live with it, or replace the converter again in short order. I've owned a '94 STS, a '99 STS, and currently an '03 STS and I couldn't tell a bit of difference between them. The newer PWM models might be a hair smoother, but it's not enough to matter.

I remember a few years back I had a '95 Grand Prix that had one of the early 4T60E's with the PWM TCC apply. When it got hot, it would lose lockup (as many did). Those were an easy fix, just cut the PWM control wire at the trans and you were good to go. Those early OBD 1.5 computers weren't smart enough to catch the open circuit, and the solenoid defaulted to full pressure with the wire cut. Was it the proper way? No. Would it have lasted forever? No. However, I got another 20k out of the trans from that point on, and the most I ever had to deal with was slightly hard 1-2 shifts when the trans was cold.