400 mi into A-RX clean, longer warm-up

[John Hilmer]

We started the A-RX about 400 miles ago on my buds '95 Toyota PU with the 22RE engine, and now he is noticing that it takes about twice as long to reach operating temperature from a cold start.

In all of the reading that I've done here I don't recall seeing this mentioned.

Should we be concerned, and if so, with what and why.

Um, The A-RX is in the crankcase, not the radiator, LOL!

John

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

I wouldn't be cocerned. It might be interesting if the A-RX kept the oil coller though.

 

[Ken2]

I think he is due for a new thermostat. No connection to the Auto-Rx.


Ken

 

[Big O Dave]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ken2:
I think he is due for a new thermostat. No connection to the Auto-Rx.


Ken

---

Concur.

 

[John Hilmer]

Thanks for the input. I would agree regarding the thermostat excep that in all other ways the temperature is reacting as it did prior to the A-RX addition. I find it twice as odd because our weather has been cool, but now is quite warm.

I can't believe that a thermostat would change like this, but I'm no expert and this is why I'm asking.

I can't imagine that the A-RX has changed anything that would account for this change either unless there is a huge change in the oil flow through the various passages allowing much better heat transfer to the pan during warm-up.

I'm not doubting you folks that are suspicious of the thermostat, just asking if there could be another reason.

TIA,

John

 

[Big O Dave]

Thermostats can get stuck in the "open" or "closed" position (or somewhere in between). If stuck in the "open" position, it will take your engine a lot longer to warm up because coolant is circulating through the engine and the radiator. Basically, having your thermostat stuck in the "open" position is like running without a thermostat.

If it is stuck in the "closed" position, the coolant will only circulate within the engine, and not in the radiator at all. This will cause your engine to overheat.

People usually notice if their thermostat is stuck "closed" right away, because of the geyser-like hot water show going on under the hood. When thermostats get stuck "open," only those who keep an eye on their temp guage detect a problem... everyone else just blissfully keeps bee-bopping along.

 

[John Hilmer]

Thanks Dave, I sorta had this much understood though. This truck isn't showing either signs of the two conditions that we would normally associate with the theromstat.

In this case though it is just the initial warm-up to normal temp that has changed, all other operating temps remain as they were and constant independent of operating conditions.

Bob did report that there might be a slight decrease in the normal operating temp, but he wouldn't commit to this totally when I pressed him. He just said "maybe, a slight drop". To me this isn't anything real, probably just mental induction based on uncertainty.

We had the valve cover off prior to the A-RX add and the cam and lifters were showing varnish but no sludge anywhere except carbonacious stuff on the top of the cover.

I'm perplexed about this but suspecting that the oil passages are cleraing out allowing better flow and hence better pan cooling.

I really hope that you folks will take this seriously and consider this as if the thermostat is operating normally. Something has changed and I have seen it in this regard. The reason for the change is key to determining the course of action.

I know that a '94 toy PU isn't much, but it is a big deal to Bob, and we could use some help here.

Best Regards,

John

 

[Ugly3]

T-stat can be not closing completely but otherwise working normally. Would cause the condition you note.

 

[Shaman]

It’s not a matter of importance. We all know that cars are important. We wouldn’t be here if they weren’t.
I think the problem is finding how coolant temp and oil additives relate.
Have you checked the fans for proper operations? Is there any change in the fluid level. I understand the concern you have, but unless a major oil passage was plugged up, then was opened by the ARX, I just don’t see anyway your coolant temps could play with your oil. It’s like saying I fixed my broken arm by rubbing Vaseline on my leg. Is the temp rise slow anytime other than start up? Could the sensor be going out? Did he change coolant lately? Lastly, have you checked the thermostat, not for good or bad, but for something plugging it, or a hose that may be having problems?

 

[John Hilmer]

Hum, thanks Ugly and Shaman, for opening these old eyes to these possibilities, we'll give the thermostat a change and see what happens.

I'm in complete agreement with what you both propose and the analogy is well taken.

At 152K anything is possible.

Next weekend we'll do the replacement and I'll report back. I'll check the thermostat on removal and test in the kitchen.

It is still a curiousity to me.

I lost an '83 Toy to a sudden waterpump cave-in, so maybe I'm over sensitive.

Best Regards,

John

 

[Big O Dave]

quote:

---

Originally posted by John Hilmer:
...we'll give the thermostat a change and see what happens.

---

I hope this works, John. If so, then it makes things a lot simpler.

BTW, I recommend that you guys get a Stant SuperStat. That's Stant's top-of-the-line model, and it differs from the run-of-the-mill versions because it varies how far it opens to maintain a constant temperature. I believe they guarantee them to stay within 3 or 4 degress, if the cooling system is otherwise in good shape.

Standard thermostats are either open or closed, and are much less precise mechanisms.

Just my $.02.

 

[John Hilmer]

Thanks Dave, I didn't even know that T-Stat existed and who knows if I would have found out aboput it searching the net. That is very much appreciated.

Now the plot thickens I'm affraid. In asking Bob about this reported change when I'm getting ready to suggest a plan of action he is startying to back peddle on the condition. It now isn't clear if this is as originally reported, ARGH! He promised to keep better tabs on this and report his findings.

We may just go ahead and change it anyway but I'll have to wait and see what happens next.

John

 

[Shaman]

I was going to ask about it, I was wondering if it was empirical or if he was experiencing the “something changed in the car so I am going to freak out about every little change that I may or may not have noticed before” syndrome. Is he normally attentive in vehicular matters?

 

[John Hilmer]

Shaman, yes, Bob is very attentive and actually a pretty good "wrench" with a substantial amount of background with both car/truck engines as well as Motorcycles.

My trouble is that I've been reading here for a long time and may be getting to the point of being dangerous because of this. Then too I've learned to be suspect and look for facts not opinions, so I'm the middle man, not a great place to be.

However, we made a trip not long ago when Bob mentioned this and I know that when he commented about this we were at the same place that I would have expected to see the indicated temp be where it was on my 2000 Tacoma with basically the same engine.

What I found divergent was that he commented that this was longer than it had been by a wide margin and saying twice what it had been.

Bob isn't the type that would make this casual comment unless it caught his eye, but the trouble is my enthusiasm regarding A-RX may have influenced his notice. Time will tell now that I have pressed him about this.

I feel bad that this has become a search for truth, I had no way to know that my original post was so suspect. I'll beg pardon and say that I'll up-date this in either case once I know what is either apparent or real.

Best Regards,

 

[John Hilmer]

I'm still looking for "Why". We changed out the thermostat to a Stant SuperStat (Thanks Dave) on Saturday and flushed and filled with "Toyota Long Life", the red stuff. We now have confirmed that it takes longer to warm up than before the A-RX application, and it is running a bit cooler than before. The thermostat and coolant change made no difference at all.

I know this makes no sense to me, and I sure would like to figure out what is happening. The engine warm-up time and running temperature shouldn't be affected by A-RX, but it seems related based on the time the change occured.

The old thermostat seems to be functioning correctly, base on the cook stove test.

I did notice that the "O-ring" on the old stat was starting to decompose, the typical black smearing in the hand. Is that a clue?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

John

 

[Big O Dave]

John, maybe it used to take this amount of time to warm up when it was newer, and as it has aged, the buildup of deposits caused it to run hotter. Now, ARX is removing those deposits and it is back to its original state.

Of course, this is pure speculation on my part... there's no way, that I know of, to tell for sure why this temperature situation has occurred.

What a puzzler! It would have been more ironic if it had happened with Marvel Mystery Oil!

 

[John Hilmer]

Hi Dave & All,

Your thought was sorta what I was thinking when I started this thread. Like the wifes Camry he is also experiancing a minor drop in fuel economy and the oil is getting pretty dark now. We are dosing the fuel with FP-60 since this started.

Is it possible that the combination of A-RX and the FP-60, or just the FP-60 is causing this? I guess I forgot to mention the FP-60 before, my bad.

I'm just now considering if that could be the answer.

Well, in any case changing the coolant and stat needed done anyway.

I'm just too new to this it seems.

Thanks for any input.

 

[Big O Dave]

OMG!!!! He forgot to mention the FP60... well, now that changes everything.

 

[kgb007stb]

I am 547mi into the rinse phase (137k mi dino) and my car is acting the same way. Lately it was running a bit o the hotter side especially after a good 45minute drive so I knew that something is up. I have always suspected the buildup of deposits but did not know how to remove them until I ran across auto-rx, so this is a confirmation that auto-rx is doing its job.

Here is what I would like to know, I know that sludge acts as an insulator, but if auto-rx did dissolve all the carbons from the rings, could it be possible that due to better compression the engine just does not have to work as hard to produce the same amount of power, thus less heat produced?

 

[Rick20]

In theory this would be true. Cleaned up ring packs can increase compression, resulting in maximum combustibility of the fuel air mix. Do you see an increase in idle rpm's? You might not due to the computer controls running the motor.

In general you are right again in that heavy deposits insulate key internal parts. One of the functions of the lubricant is to carry heat away from the real hot spots of the motor. Metal needs to breath, so to speek.