https://www.rubbernews.com/assets/PDF/RN101595921.PDF
ASTM F1805 Driving Traction Test and ETRTO/ISO/R117 C1-C2 braking test explained
ASTM F1805 Driving Traction Test and ETRTO/ISO/R117 C1-C2 braking test explained
3PMSF tests outlined
- Thread starter UG_Passat
- Start date
I understand that the European requirements aren't exactly the same as the North American requirements. However, the Europeans have coopted the symbol. Not sure how that works with trademarks other than they don't think it's a bad thing to have an easy to recognize symbol.
That presentation is just an overview. You have to review the actual ASTM specification for details.
And ECE R117 is also referenced here:
https://unece.org/DAM/trans/doc/2011/wp29grrf/GRRF-71-10e.pdf
It's really up to the tire manufacturers to set their design targets when they create a new tire that would bear the 3PMSF symbol.
https://unece.org/DAM/trans/doc/2011/wp29grrf/GRRF-71-10e.pdf
It's really up to the tire manufacturers to set their design targets when they create a new tire that would bear the 3PMSF symbol.
If AT tires can pass it it is pretty weak indicator of winter capabilities. Hence project to add ice performance test.
To some degree we depend on good will of manufacturers to use the mark as winter tire differentiator.
But by presence of the 3MPSF mark on AT tires I doubt it.
Krzys
PS However it is an improvement compared to M+S that is geometry based only.
To some degree we depend on good will of manufacturers to use the mark as winter tire differentiator.
But by presence of the 3MPSF mark on AT tires I doubt it.
Krzys
PS However it is an improvement compared to M+S that is geometry based only.
I know a couple of engineers from Transport Canada who largely developed this standard. Have been told by them that many tires with the 3PMSF rating are actually worse than many all-season tires.
Any 3PMSF Tire I’ve seen had a pretty aggressive thread design. I’d feel comfortable that it can deliver winter traction better than a M&S thread.
Respectfully, I disagree.
However it’s not a simple yes or not as to whether it better or not.
Driving style (heavier vehicle=longer stopping distances in snow **A LONG LOST CONCEPT THESE DAYS) plays the majority role here, but location and vehicle are also important factors.
In my experiences a tire such as the Michelin Defender LTX (pickup trucks/larger SUV) has handily outperformed ANY aggressive thread 3PMSF AT tire in light/moderate snow, ice, and a mix of the two. Especially as the temperatures get really cold. I find the driving experience is much less white knuckle.
However in a blizzard or if I am driving off-road snow covered trails…an aggressive thread 3PMSF all day everyday.
I’ll just leave you with Tire Racks viewpoint. Bring your Defender LTX tires and we’ll test them in the high passes of the Rocky Mountains. They aren’t “ off road snow covered trails”.
I never said the LTX was a dedicated snow tire. I said it performed better in light/moderate snow and ice than most aggressive thread AT tires with the 3PMSF rating.
I wouldn’t consider the high passes in Colorado as a place that gets “moderate” snow by any stretch of the imagination.
There is no substitute for a true winter tire, not even a 3PMSF AT tire…
Once you get that low, grip on ice goes up again
except non winter tire turns into magic plastic.
Yes but I don't know if that matters much, unless they destroy themselves. Point being that the ice doesn't melt under the tyre at those low temperatures and it's a lot more like driving on concrete. In any event the colder it gets below freezing, the closer the performance of all tyres becomes.
Do you have a source for that? If so, I'd like to include that on my webpage.
I would say that test data shows this is true for the ice traction of studded winter tires versus studless winter tires.
Bits and pieces I gathered over the years.
I for sure got some data from dry traction in winter comparing winter, summer and all season tyres, where the performance inches closer together as it gets colder
I saw results (probably shina.ru, when it was lesser shame to read Russian web pages) that indicated existence of two ice environments. They called them:
Warm ice -5 0 C 20-32F
Cold ice -20 -15 C -10-0F
Studs worked great on the warm ice but chemistry of studless tires won on the cold one.
Krzyś
Warm ice -5 0 C 20-32F
Cold ice -20 -15 C -10-0F
Studs worked great on the warm ice but chemistry of studless tires won on the cold one.
Krzyś
Similar threads
- Sticky
