3M brake lube?

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johnnyh55

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I was preparing to do a brake job and read all the threads about brake lube discussions. From what I gather Sil-Glyde is pretty much the best for the slide pins but it is hard to find in my area, so I was thinking of using 3M Silicone paste for the slider pins since it as good as Sil-Glyde?


As for the metal to metal contact points, should I use a type of Moly grease or will the 3M brake lube(copper anti-seize) do the job?
 
IMO YES, the 3M is as good as the Sil-Glyde and I've used both. I use the Sil-Glyde or 3M on the slider pins and touch points but, I use anything cheaper on the backing plates of the pads to reduce/eliminate squeal.

The only parts that I use antiseeze/neverseeze on is the threads of bolts/hold down bolts.
 
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Anything "petrochemical" will swell rubber (dust boots...that rubber on slyding pin etc)

I bet you have a volvo dealer in your area...PN is on a tube
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Anything "petrochemical" will swell rubber (dust boots...that rubber on slyding pin etc)


If that is true, then how do tie rod and ball joint boots do well with petrochemical greases?

EDIT: johnnyh55, both SilGlyde and the 3M silicone brake grease are highly regarded here. Silglyde is a castor oil grease with only a trace of silicone content. The 3M product is a true silicone grease. Comparing both under the faucet, real silicone seems to be more resistant to water absorption.

For exterior metal to metal contact points, I prefer either Dow/Honda Molykote77 or Pastelub for their very high moly content and superior water washoff resistance. Just my preference.

Regarding petrochemical greases on brakes, I believe the real concern is getting it into the inner workings of the brake system. I'm going to take a wild guess that the exterior brake bushings and tie rod rubber are both made of EPDM rubber (I might be wrong). Regardless, some here have reported that certain car brands have brake rubber that is extremely sensitive to swelling even with so-called rubber safe brake greases. It's somewhat mind boggling.
 
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Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Anything "petrochemical" will swell rubber (dust boots...that rubber on slyding pin etc)


If that is true, then how do tie rod and ball joint boots do well with petrochemical greases?


I think it depends on the type of rubber? The same reason why some lube that aren't silicone work fine on the slide pins and some cause the rubber to swell but that is only my guess.
 
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Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Anything "petrochemical" will swell rubber (dust boots...that rubber on slyding pin etc)


If that is true, then how do tie rod and ball joint boots do well with petrochemical greases?


Virgin rubber alone is almost never used in automobile manufacturing anymore, they are all rubber compounds eg brake parts rubber is EPDM the same a most modern coolant hoses and some weather seals. It does not play well with petroleum based oils and grease.
The compound used in tie rod and ball joints is usually today a poly/rubber mix, Buna N/NBR/Acrylonitrile is also very common but prone to cracking and deterioration and has very poor resistance to brake fluid.

3M and other silicone and castor based grease are great for brake rubber parts.
 
3M Silicone paste is also stated by the OEMs as a replacement for their pin lubes - except in Toyota's case since they want a "lithium soap glycol grease" for their pins and boots. It's been used with success on Toyotas as well. I think you really can't go wrong with 3M Silicone/Dow 111/Sil-Glyde if the OEM doesn't call for a specific product and even so, you'll be fine. I've use Sil-Glyde on Toyota slide pins and bushings without consequence.

I know Honda says using the 3M paste is A-OK for their slide pins and boots.

As for the copper paste/anti-seize, it's OEM specified for drum brakes and I think Subaru says it's an acceptable substitute for Molykote M7439 paste. I use Loctite C5-A instead. I personally prefer Permatex's High-Temp Silicone Formula disc brake lube or Molykote M77 for sliding surfaces than copper-based anti-seize. Ahthough this time on a friend's Subaru, I used C5-A on the support clips.
 
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Originally Posted By: Char Baby
IMO YES, the 3M is as good as the Sil-Glyde and I've used both. I use the Sil-Glyde or 3M on the slider pins and touch points but, I use "anything cheaper" on the backing plates of the pads to reduce/eliminate squeal.

The only parts that I use antiseeze/neverseeze on is the threads of bolts/hold down bolts.


I failed to mention that I do use silicone brake lubes as they don't attack rubber parts. However when I stated to use "anything cheaper", I still meant to use a lesser expensive silicone paste such as Permatex or CRC. Often I can get a 20-32 oz tub of CRC(on sale) for le$$ per oz than the Sil-Glyde or 3M. And I do like the S-G or 3M for slider pins and the le$$er costly lubes for pad backing plates to help in reducing any noises.
 
You can't really from an SDS. I know the evil Permatex green/lavender synthetic brake lube has its ingredients hidden on the SDS as a trade secret but it's bad for rubber.

The Kleen-Flo is silicone based and I don't see petroleum products on the SDS(which are required to be listed) but it's a translucent paste. I think you'll be OK.

They do make a ceramic lube - but from the looks of it per the SDS, it's a clone of the Permatex purple stuff. Stay away.
 
First, thanks Trav for correcting my mistakes about the use of EPDM rubber on vehicle parts.


This older msds for the Kleen-Flo silicone product shows it to contain 10 - 30% silicone: http://www.monarchoil.com/pdf/KF331.pdf . It's interesting (to me) that the Kleen-Flo EZE Slide has polypropylene glycol like SilGlyde.
 
Originally Posted By: johnnyh55
Well I just stopped by my local NAPA and they don't carry Sil-Glyde around here. Their biggest seller is Kleen-Flo EZE-Glide. How can you tell if a lube is good or not by looking at the MSDS sheet?

http://www.kleenflo.com/msds/331.pdf

What should I look for?


I've seen it at Autozone.
 
Originally Posted By: Warstud
Originally Posted By: johnnyh55
Well I just stopped by my local NAPA and they don't carry Sil-Glyde around here. Their biggest seller is Kleen-Flo EZE-Glide. How can you tell if a lube is good or not by looking at the MSDS sheet?

http://www.kleenflo.com/msds/331.pdf

What should I look for?


I've seen it at Autozone.



Ya but I am in Canada so no Autozone unfortunetaly, I will need to pick some up next time I am in the US. I am just trying to find a good alternative for now.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Anything "petrochemical" will swell rubber (dust boots...that rubber on slyding pin etc)


If that is true, then how do tie rod and ball joint boots do well with petrochemical greases?


Virgin rubber alone is almost never used in automobile manufacturing anymore, they are all rubber compounds eg brake parts rubber is EPDM the same a most modern coolant hoses and some weather seals. It does not play well with petroleum based oils and grease.
The compound used in tie rod and ball joints is usually today a poly/rubber mix, Buna N/NBR/Acrylonitrile is also very common but prone to cracking and deterioration and has very poor resistance to brake fluid.

3M and other silicone and castor based grease are great for brake rubber parts.


So maybe they don't "do well with petrochemical greases"?

I've raised the question of rubber compatability of greases used with tie rods, ball joints and CV boots a few times, speculating that lack of it may be a reason for failure, but never had a response.

Hello darkness my old friend....
 
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Anything "petrochemical" will swell rubber (dust boots...that rubber on slyding pin etc)

I bet you have a volvo dealer in your area...PN is on a tube
wink.gif



It says its got PTFE in it....

....This is interesting to me because I used PTFE tape on my slide pins (along with silicone grease bought in Japan) but thought I might not do it next time I strip them in case the brakes get very hot again (one was seized) and break it down to fluoric acid, which is famously nasty stuff.

Wikipedia has "Pyrolysis of PTFE is detectable at 200 °C...it begins to deteriorate after the temperature of cookware reaches about 260 °C (500 °F), and decomposes above 350 °C "

Seems like a seized brake could perhaps get in that ball park, but if Volvo aren't worried.....

...OTOH, they ARE Chinese now.
 
I highly doubt that sliding pins ever reach more than 100C...at every inspection Volvo grease was the same consistency...plus I doubt that rubber dust boots will whitstand that temperatures you are mentioning above...

There is too much metal in your calipers that act also as a heat sink...
 
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
I highly doubt that sliding pins ever reach more than 100C...at every inspection Volvo grease was the same consistency...plus I doubt that rubber dust boots will whitstand that temperatures you are mentioning above...

There is too much metal in your calipers that act also as a heat sink...


Dunno. I'm not talking about normal operation here, but fault conditions.(Or, I suppose, extreme competition use, though my brakes will never see that.)

Still, you're probably right. It'll be an added incentive to maintain the brakes properly in case you arent.
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
^^^True, 'extreme competition use' fixed calipers do NOT use rubber dust boots at all for those very same sky-high heat reasons. :nono:


Having slept on it I'm fairly sure he's wrong, though I havn't attempted any sums.

Theres a lot of energy continuously available to a seized brake and I'm guessing the heat sinks will fill up and overflow, perhaps getting the calipers hot enough to cook-off the PTFE.

So I have to hope/make sure that doesn't happen, and/or get the PTFE out of there next time I strip the calipers.



Not extreme, no gratuitious destruction. Sorry.

500 degrees C on track use is mentioned.
 
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