3-Way Switch Help

[barlowc]

I have pair of lights outside my home, one on each side of my garage. These lights are controlled by a pair of switches. One is a standard Cooper Industries 1303-7 3-way toggle switch; the other is a Defiant Daylight Adjusting Digital Timer from Home Depot. The automatic dusk/dawn timer renders the toggle switch useless and makes it a source of problems. It gets accidentally flipped and then my outside lights aren't turning on at night.

I'd like to remove the switch entirely but need some help with the wiring to determine if it can be done and how. I'm hoping that I don't have to call an electrician out just for this. Here's what the wiring of that switch looks like. Does this tell us enough or do I need to diagram the wiring of the dusk/dawn timer too?

 

[Delta]

If I'm reading it all correctly it sounds like they might have just used it like a 2-way. If nobody else can figure it out, it might help to take a picture of the boxes. But the way they have the wires on the black screw is way wrong. Sounds like a fire waiting to happen. There should only be one wire on each terminal. Also I never trust back-stabbing devices. With that model switch I'm pretty sure you could only backstab 14ga wire. Not 100% sure, but it looks like if you nut the red wire to the blacks you should have it... A little clearer picture might help.

 

[barlowc]

My understanding is that's the way it was wired by the electrician when the home was built in 2002. In saying that, I'm not saying it can't be wrong.

I'm not sure what clearer picture I can provide. I didn't think an actual photo of the switch/box would show things as clearly as my labelled diagram.

 

[Delta]

Wow, not sure how that passed inspection, although every jurisdiction is different. One would normally take a jumper wire off the switch to the other three wires. But thinking closer I think if you connect the blacks to red you should have it. Typically the black screw is typically the feed/source.

 

[Oldmoparguy1]

The 3 way function has been bypassed. the switch is hooked up as a simple on/off switch.

In a 3 way hookup, the red wire is the common, the other black wires are hot. Flipping the switch connects the red wire to either the other gold screw, or the black screw. Someone in the past disabled the 3 way function. I suspect that this was done in order to get the timer switch to work. Depending on what function you want, one of the switches will have to be rewired or replaced. Also, there should only be 2 black wires, the primary power should be on the timer switch. The timer switch should have power feed from the fuse box. there should be Red, white and black wires there.

This is one way to do it.

There are other ways to hook it up.

Go here for more info.

 

[FSully1]

Where is the other switch?

Tape toggle switch in "on" position.

 

[The_Jeff]

So are these garage lights on a detatched garage, and does the breaker for the garage kill these lights, too?

I'd be inclined to fix this at the light, or at the junction box that feeds the light, and not "fix" this at the remote switch. That way a future owner isn't befuddled by an odd wire in an odd switch box that's just nutted back on itself to feed power back where it came from. Do you have a finished garage with drywall or can you trace wires?

Take note that the red wire is "special" and if you find it you're in between the two 3-ways.

The multiple blacks probably mean this switch is the "starting point" for wiring the garage and it splits off to feed outlets and other lights. You should also find a big bundle of white wires all nutted together. The more elegant way to do this is to also nut the blacks together and have a 10 inch little pigtail loop out to run the switch, so the switch can be replaced without a spaghetti factory of stiff wire being disturbed.

 

[barlowc]

Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
The 3 way function has been bypassed. the switch is hooked up as a simple on/off switch. ... Someone in the past disabled the 3 way function. I suspect that this was done in order to get the timer switch to work.

I suspect you are right.

Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
Depending on what function you want, one of the switches will have to be rewired or replaced./quote]
I just want that toggle switch out of the picture so that the two outside lights are just controlled by the dusk/dawn timer. Can I just nut the red wire to the black ones to achieve that and not create any kind of fire hazard?

Where is the other switch? Tape toggle switch in "on" position.

The dusk/dawn timer is in the garage. The toggle switch is near my front door in the same box with a switch that controls a) the porch light, and b) the foyer light. When someone switches one of those lights on/off, the toggle switch in question often get switched too and I don't notice it until I come home nights later and notice the outside garage lights aren't on. I'm looking for a better solution than simply taping the switch which is a bit "jenky" for my taste.

Originally Posted By: eljefino
So are these garage lights on a detatched garage, and does the breaker for the garage kill these lights, too? ... Do you have a finished garage with drywall or can you trace wires?

It's an attached garage so tracking the wires is difficult. The outside fixtures are nicely caulked to the brick and I prefer not to mess with that.

 

[FSully1]

What wires are at this switch---->The dusk/dawn timer is in the garage? Or is this photocell?

 

[Donald]

Connect the red and black wires together with a wire nut. If the box is metal, get a green ground clip and use the clip and green wire to ground the box.

 

[barlowc]

Here's what the timer switch in garage looks like:



Since the picture is hard to see clearly, here's how the timer is wired:

The switch's red wire is nutted to a red wire
The switch's green wire is nutted to the ground wire
The switch's black wire is nutted to a black wire
The switch's blue wire is nutted to a black wire
The switch's white wire is nutted to TWO (2) white wires

And here's an outline of the observed behavior...

During the day, when the timer has things in the off state...
When the toggle switch is in the down position, the lights are off and the timer shows "Auto-Off"
When I flip the toggle switch into the up position, the lights go on and the timer shows "Auto-On"
When I flip the toggle switch back to the down position, the lights go off and the timer shows "Auto-Off"

During the night, when the timer has things in the on state…
When the toggle switch is in the down position, the lights are on and the timer shows "Auto-On"
When I flip the toggle switch into the up position, the lights go off and the timer shows "Auto-Off"
When I flip the toggle switch back to the down position, the lights go on and the timer shows "Auto-On"

Ideally, I'd like to remove the 3-way toggle switch that's inside the house, wire the timer there, and nut the wires together appropriately in the garage.

Alternatively, leave the timer where it's at, remove the 3-way toggle switch that's inside the house, and nut the wires together appropriately there.

I also have a porch light that is controlled by a single-pole toggle switch that's in the same switch box inside the house. I'd love that to be controlled by the same timer. But maybe I'll just have to get a separate timer switch for that one and set the schedules that same. It just seems like there has to be a way to change the way the wires are connected to do what I want. But maybe to achieve that I need to bring an expert electrician in and have him do his thing.