3 UOA's 06 Subaru Outback XT turbo, M1 EP, GC 0W30

[JonR]

This post will cover the first 3 UOA's I've gotten for my 2006 Subaru Outback XT (2.5L turbo). This car is my wife's daily driver. For all three intervals:
-OEM oil filter
-OEM air filter (changed at 19,000 miles)
-No additives
-BP (Amoco) 93 octane

First OCI (5900mi):
-M1 5W30 EP
-fair amount of gravel/dirt driving, otherwise mix of short and long trip driving

Blackstone Comments on first UOA (Mobil 1 5W30 EP):
The high wear and silicon are likely from lingering break-in, assuming this is the third or fourth oil in the
engine. The excess wear metals are from new parts while silicon is from sand-casted parts and sealers used when
assembling your engine. Both should improve with subsequent oil changes. Fuel at 0.5% isn't a problem and no
coolant or moisture was found. If this is the fifth or sixth oil change, you may want to check the air filter since dirt
(silicon) could be causing the wear. The TBN read 2.6, some active additive left. Check back to monitor.

Second OCI (5125mi):
-Castrol Syntec (GC) green 0W30
-limited gravel/dirt driving, otherwise mostly short trip driving

Blackstone Comments on second UOA:
Wear mostly improved in the latest sample from your Subaru, though iron increased a little. The
variation in iron might be attributed to something operational, like driving harder this time around or doing more city
driving/idling. Since everything else is okay, we're not going to get too bent out of shape over iron, though we'd like to
see it drop some next time, along with improvements in the other metals. No moisture, fuel, or coolant found. The air
and oil filters are working well too. The TBN read 4.3, active additive remaining. Check back to monitor wear.

Third OCI (3751mi):
-Castrol Syntec (Gold GC) 0W30
-mix of short and long trip driving, little gravel/dirt

I guess I'm surprised I've had to cut the OCI so far down to get reasonable wear even with GC, but hey I guess that's why we get UOA's. I'm thinking I'll do one more at ~4000 mi with GC and see what I get.

 

[JAG]

The silicon isn't trending down and I wonder if the gravel/dirt is getting in the engine. Amsoil air filter (better filtration maybe) or sealing the OEM air filter may be worth trying.

It's odd that insolubles have been on the rise as OCI's are getting shorter.

 

[bluesubie]

Hey, didn't you just get a Legacy GT?

I'm going to be swapping my OEM air filter for an Amsoil. My Si has never fallen into the single digits, although my OCI's are 6-8k on GC.

How short are the short trips?

-Dennis

 

[bluesubie]

^edit: Oh, you have the WRX. Someone else has the LGT.

-Dennis

 

[JoeFromPA]

Maybe you are thinking of me Dennis?

I've heard great things about the AVO Panel Filter (a reusable one) which also give your intake a nice sound

As a new LGT owner, this information is priceless. Coming from a Honda that cruised through a 10k OCI on AMSOIL 0w30, it's a whole new world going back to 3-4k oil changes on an LGT (or at least, it will be).

Alot of owners have done dino oil simply because of the results....for some reason, these engines don't seem to do well with long OCIs. Then again, I've seen one or two UOAs from the 2.5 turbo running 15k oil changes and they've looked good.

Seems like Subaru hit the nail on the head with this engine and prescribining 3750 mile oil change intervals....seems like it is within the margin of safety enough but still uses most of the life of the oil.

I don't understand one thing though (I'm not yet a veteran BITOG). The oils from these changes seem very stable...their viscosity is good, TBN is plentiful....and yet the wear levels seem to be increasing substantially if they are kept in an extra 1-2k?

Wouldn't that indicate that the oil itself is doing well, but that an external factor (hard driving, lots of contaminants in the oil) is causing extra wear?

Joe

 

[bluesubie]

Yes, I'm getting my Joe's and Jon's mixed up.

IMO, the new 3,750 mile OCI is a result of owner neglect and/or people using the wrong oil for the conditions. There are people running 5W30 in the summer in AZ and in highly modified and tracked cars.

I've been doing 6-8,000 mile OCI's on GC and one on Motul 8100 5W30 since 12k and I'm now at 65k. I'm trying Amsoil next.

-Dennis

 

[JonR]

Originally Posted By: bluesubie


How short are the short trips?

-Dennis


Many trips under 5 miles.

I am hoping that I can start to inch up toward higher OCI's but that will depend on this next UOA. I should have known this from seeing so much variation but I guess it's sobering to realize that one person's OCI isn't the same as the next even with the same oil and motor.

I am going to try first going with more frequent air filter changes and perhaps try other filters depending on what happens to my silicon. It's strange that I can get single digits on my WRX with OEM filtration but not with the Outback.

 

[bluesubie]

My daily trips are 5 miles as well. I've had dilution as high as 2.3% in the winter and usually run 6-7,500 mile OCI's.

My last uoa.

-Dennis

 

[MrWideTires]

wow, so GC has more TBN than Mobil1 EP?

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

The Main reason to me that the oil isn't holding up like your old Honda is one reason. TURBO. If I am not mistaken the Subie in question is a Turbo Charged Car and Turbo's have a tendacy to make or break an oil. Extended Drain intervals on a trubo charged car is hidious IMO. You lose a turbo because of an "extended drain interval" and you lose a $2,000 Turbo. All over what? Not changing your oil enough? I can see that you want to "save" money. But honestly, the UOA are telling you one simple truth. CHANGE THE OIL MORE OFTEN!! haha. Listen to your car. As for the contamination, try a K&N OEM replacement. The oil and cotton will trap fine particles. Just dont OVER oil when you clean it.

 

[tinmanSC]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
The Main reason to me that the oil isn't holding up like your old Honda is one reason. TURBO. If I am not mistaken the Subie in question is a Turbo Charged Car and Turbo's have a tendacy to make or break an oil. Extended Drain intervals on a trubo charged car is hidious IMO. You lose a turbo because of an "extended drain interval" and you lose a $2,000 Turbo. All over what? Not changing your oil enough? I can see that you want to "save" money. But honestly, the UOA are telling you one simple truth. CHANGE THE OIL MORE OFTEN!! haha. Listen to your car. As for the contamination, try a K&N OEM replacement. The oil and cotton will trap fine particles. Just dont OVER oil when you clean it.


Hrm... *ponders* 04/20/08 11:16 AM

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
The Main reason to me that the oil isn't holding up like your old Honda is one reason. TURBO. If I am not mistaken the Subie in question is a Turbo Charged Car and Turbo's have a tendacy to make or break an oil. Extended Drain intervals on a trubo charged car is hidious IMO. You lose a turbo because of an "extended drain interval" and you lose a $2,000 Turbo. All over what? Not changing your oil enough? I can see that you want to "save" money. But honestly, the UOA are telling you one simple truth. CHANGE THE OIL MORE OFTEN!! haha. Listen to your car. As for the contamination, try a K&N OEM replacement. The oil and cotton will trap fine particles. Just dont OVER oil when you clean it.


I disagree with everything you've said. I usually keep from arguing, except against fear mongering such as this.

This UOA in no way shows that the oil has stopped doing its job and, as a matter of fact, indicates that the OP's interval can be extended. Spectral wear analysis is not a very good indicator of actual wear, and, IMO should not be used as the primary determinant for OCI.

The 3750 mile OCI IS a good number for Subaru to use, assuming every one has their oil changed with the cheapest group 2 name brand oil at their local Quick Lube shop. With that said, I can think of cases where 3750 mile OCI's using the cheapest API-spec'd oils would NOT be conservative enough. My point is that OCI has a lot more to do with driving style and oil used than the simple facy that it has a turbo.

Like Blue, I run extended intervals on my turbo-Subie because the oil I use allows me to. I also drive 50% or more of my miles on the highway.

Also, the K+N filter will not filter better than the stock paper filter. The K+N is meant as a cheap drop-in "upgrade," and may produce minor gains in some cars, but not in turbo-Subies, from what I've read. The stock filter flows just fine, filters very well, and the limiting factor to quickly producing boost is not the intake.

 

[FZ1]

Look,your drive is just that. It's Your Drive/Unit:Not another person's Drive/Unit. It is what it is. The Turbo is a factor. So stay at 3750. Use only the Oem air filter. Change the AF prior to an oil change. Try 15k for the AF change to see if it reduces the silicon. Hope this helps.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
Look,your drive is just that. It's Your Drive/Unit:Not another person's Drive/Unit. It is what it is. The Turbo is a factor. So stay at 3750. Use only the Oem air filter. Change the AF prior to an oil change. Try 15k for the AF change to see if it reduces the silicon. Hope this helps.


Hey, I can't tell if this is in response to what I posted, but I'll answer as such.

After rereading my post I can see how it came across a bit strong. I only meant to sound so in the first sentence, but the interwebs is kinda tricky when it comes to context, so I'm sure the rest of my post may have seemed combative. Anyway, that wasn't my intent, and I didn't feel that I was telling the OP what to do just because that's what I do.

With that being said, I think advice from other members with turbo-Subies, such as myself, is pertitent and helpful, though I'd never expect any one to do what I do just because I say so or because it works for me. Turbo-Subie not withstanding, the UOA shows that the only issue to be seen is the Pb, which, IMO, isn't an issue at all and maybe a low Flashpoint.

If it were me, I'd try another oil for a few OCI's to see how things change. If you don't mind trying something heavier, maybe consider Rotella T6 5W-40. It's by no means the crem de la crem, but it seems to performe excellently in every UOA I've seen, including mine - '08 STI at over 7k OCI, with a lot of highway, but also a lot of aggressive driving as well.

Hope this helps!

 

[FZ1]

No problem. I was just pointing out to the op that each person's drive/motor is unique. Just because you can run long drains in Conn.,does not mean the op should expect to do so in Tenn. in dirt and gravel. Look at his silicon.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
Look,your drive is just that. It's Your Drive/Unit:Not another person's Drive/Unit. It is what it is. The Turbo is a factor. So stay at 3750. Use only the Oem air filter. Change the AF prior to an oil change. Try 15k for the AF change to see if it reduces the silicon. Hope this helps.


Are you serious with that utterance, FZ1? You of all people stick your nose in their business and tell them what to do.

Are the meds due for an upgrade, or did your koolaid get switched to Crystal Lite?

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
The Main reason to me that the oil isn't holding up like your old Honda is one reason. TURBO. If I am not mistaken the Subie in question is a Turbo Charged Car and Turbo's have a tendacy to make or break an oil. Extended Drain intervals on a trubo charged car is hidious IMO. You lose a turbo because of an "extended drain interval" and you lose a $2,000 Turbo. All over what? Not changing your oil enough? I can see that you want to "save" money. But honestly, the UOA are telling you one simple truth. CHANGE THE OIL MORE OFTEN!! haha. Listen to your car. As for the contamination, try a K&N OEM replacement. The oil and cotton will trap fine particles. Just dont OVER oil when you clean it.


I disagree with everything you've said. I usually keep from arguing, except against fear mongering such as this.

This UOA in no way shows that the oil has stopped doing its job and, as a matter of fact, indicates that the OP's interval can be extended. Spectral wear analysis is not a very good indicator of actual wear, and, IMO should not be used as the primary determinant for OCI.

The 3750 mile OCI IS a good number for Subaru to use, assuming every one has their oil changed with the cheapest group 2 name brand oil at their local Quick Lube shop. With that said, I can think of cases where 3750 mile OCI's using the cheapest API-spec'd oils would NOT be conservative enough. My point is that OCI has a lot more to do with driving style and oil used than the simple facy that it has a turbo.

Like Blue, I run extended intervals on my turbo-Subie because the oil I use allows me to. I also drive 50% or more of my miles on the highway.

Also, the K+N filter will not filter better than the stock paper filter. The K+N is meant as a cheap drop-in "upgrade," and may produce minor gains in some cars, but not in turbo-Subies, from what I've read. The stock filter flows just fine, filters very well, and the limiting factor to quickly producing boost is not the intake.


I tend to agree with most of what you said.

UOA doesn't measure wear ..but most will agree that less is better. Even at higher levels this would still be noise ..so it's like measuring a 30' vs. a 25' margin.

I also agree about the 3750 OCI. Anyone who has seen a GM OLM'd car vs one using the calender/odometer has to realize that static mileage/month recommendations have substantial fudge factor to create an envelope that will fit the most consumers inside it. Americans are way too disinterested consumers to differentiate between severe vs. light duty. The engineers and accountants have to apply KISS for the typical owner.

To think that some invisible spring trap slams shut @ 3750.9 miles is a bit comical if you think about it. That was the CYA figure to inhibit the ruthless American consumer from, as always, trying to get away without paying for their behaviors. Savagely insisting that they did nothing wrong and it's Subbie's fault for selling it to them.

(an opinion based on personal use and observations) K&N filter work okay. The filter appeared to have X number of cleanings until the silicon numbers started to climb. I think cleaning them too often would shorten the functional life span. Mine was in a common engine. Something that gulps lots of air will probably see some more hp @ limits ..and will probably see a touch more contamination.

If this was an LTR car, I would offer that longer term, abrasives could alter the efficiency of the turbo due to impeller erosion. I don't know if it would be enough to notice.

 

[MrWideTires]

Having been dealing with Subarus all my life, and I have an STI myself.. I can tell you guys, if you insist on extending your oil life on every car, please don't buy a turbo subaru.

It doesn't matter how "oh it looks like it still has life" it looks, turbo subarus simply do not like going over 5000 miles on an oil change, even the most expensive synthetic.

These are NOT cars to be playing around to see how many extra hundred miles you can get, or run conventional because "synthetic is a waste at that short interval", you'll pay for it on the long run.

 

[FZ1]

+1

 

[FZ1]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Look,your drive is just that. It's Your Drive/Unit:Not another person's Drive/Unit. It is what it is. The Turbo is a factor. So stay at 3750. Use only the Oem air filter. Change the AF prior to an oil change. Try 15k for the AF change to see if it reduces the silicon. Hope this helps.


Are you serious with that utterance, FZ1? You of all people stick your nose in their business and tell them what to do.

Are the meds due for an upgrade, or did your koolaid get switched to Crystal Lite?
Your meds? What didn't you understand re my post,as explained,in my post #2067919?