2021 Subaru Outback 2.5L/ Mobil 1 AFE 0w-30 2.8k Miles

[Nuclear_42]

Here's my latest run highlighted in yellow with Mobil 1 AFE 0w-30 . First run was Amsoil Signature 0w-20/ second Amsoil OE 0w-20. Overall I think this oil did pretty good for my needs. Currently doing 3k/ 6 months OCI. Mostly short 4 mile round trip commutes with occasional highway and weekly grocery runs from Feb 2024 till Jul 2024 in Minnesota. Running a basic Wix 57055 filter. I don't know what to think about the silicon levels. I replaced the engine air filter 7k miles ago with a wix yet the silicon levels are roughly the same with no improvement. Could this Subaru with 36k miles still be shedding new engine/ assembly sealant particles? Oil change was performed shortly after with the same products after I sent the sample.

 

[fantastic]

Your silicon is hovering around the same as previous samples so we'll just chalk it up to variables for now. You've replaced the filter & so long as you double checked any unwanted air entry not much else to do. Fuel came down which is nice to see. Wear levels have ticked down a bit as well. Those previous 5% fuel is something to watch as I know you are. Is this a turbo engine?

 

[Jack_Kieran]

Re Silicon: The Wix is reputed to be a very good air filter but perhaps fit is an issue here. Could try installing an OEM air filter right now so the next UOA will reflect the change. Also, check that the air box is clean when new filter installed. I don't recall seeing other Subaru UOAs with Silicon in 30ppm range by the 30,000 mile mark.

 

[Nuclear_42]

Your silicon is hovering around the same as previous samples so we'll just chalk it up to variables for now. You've replaced the filter & so long as you double checked any unwanted air entry not much else to do. Fuel came down which is nice to see. Wear levels have ticked down a bit as well. Those previous 5% fuel is something to watch as I know you are. Is this a turbo engine?

2.5L FB25 DI no turbo.

 

[Nuclear_42]

Re Silicon: The Wix is reputed to be a very good air filter but perhaps fit is an issue here. Could try installing an OEM air filter right now so the next UOA will reflect the change. Also, check that the air box is clean when new filter installed. I don't recall seeing other Subaru UOAs with Silicon in 30ppm range by the 30,000 mile mark.

I purchased the outback used with 22k in 2022. The dealership changed the air filter at 19k. When I changed it looked pretty new. I will check again but I was very detailed when I changed it at 29k with the wix.

 

[Impatient]

Thank you for sharing these.

Since you’ve proven the M1 AFE 0w30 ends up 20 grade, and nothing else seems wildly out of whack (unless Tin or Silicon are issues), I’d be curious to see what a 4000 mi OCI would look like (do I sound like Blackstone?); of course, the fuel dilution is the wild card, so I’d want a very robust oil to counter that. Personally, I like the 8.7 cst result better than the 7.1, or 7.6. So if a 0w-30 continues to handle (or offset) the fuel at higher mileage, i would be curious if I could stretch it to 1 change per year with a great oil. (it sort of looked like you’re doing 5000-6000 mi / year). I don’t know who still makes a readily-available (Walmart) non-European-spec 0w-30 other than this M1. Does Castrol? The Amsoil 0w-30 MIGHT offer better protection than this particular M1 AFE, but of course, at a cost. It also may be perfectly acceptable to use a thicker Euro-spec oil, but those might not thin to a 20 weight…if that is a goal. M1 ESP 0w30 is interesting, though thicker, now available at Walmart in 5 qt jug at just a few bucks more. But I need to stop with the recommendations. It sounds like you know what you’re doing.

So, what are your plans for that CVT? Early drain & fill? . Again, I’m using your experiences to convince my friend how to maintain her newly-acquired 2021 Outback.

 

[Nuclear_42]

Thank you for sharing these.

Since you’ve proven the M1 AFE 0w30 ends up 20 grade, and nothing else seems wildly out of whack (unless Tin or Silicon are issues), I’d be curious to see what a 4000 mi OCI would look like (do I sound like Blackstone?); of course, the fuel dilution is the wild card, so I’d want a very robust oil to counter that. Personally, I like the 8.7 cst result better than the 7.1, or 7.6. So if a 0w-30 continues to handle (or offset) the fuel at higher mileage, i would be curious if I could stretch it to 1 change per year with a great oil. (it sort of looked like you’re doing 5000-6000 mi / year). I don’t know who still makes a readily-available (Walmart) non-European-spec 0w-30 other than this M1. Does Castrol? The Amsoil 0w-30 MIGHT offer better protection than this particular M1 AFE, but of course, at a cost. It also may be perfectly acceptable to use a thicker Euro-spec oil, but those might not thin to a 20 weight…if that is a goal. M1 ESP 0w30 is interesting, though thicker, now available at Walmart in 5 qt jug at just a few bucks more. But I need to stop with the recommendations. It sounds like you know what you’re doing.

So, what are your plans for that CVT? Early drain & fill? . Again, I’m using your experiences to convince my friend how to maintain her newly-acquired 2021 Outback.

Honestly I think these engines are truly constricted to the 6k mile OCI Subaru established. I’m sure any Euro spec 0w-30 will carry it across the 6k finish line. However I wouldn’t be to happy with 10% fuel in my oil even though the viscosity might be ok. Anyways like mentioned before once my last 2 jugs of AFE are gone I’ll prob move on the ESP or Penzoil euro LX. We are just big dealing it probably majority of owners run the 6k on 0w-20 and have no idea how watered down their oil got. As far the CVT goes I I’m waiting for a recall to have parts. When it gets in the dealer I’ll prob bite the bullet and pay the $400 for a CVT drain and fill. I don’t currently have the means to do a full blown transmission fluid exchange in my apartment complex. Only basic maintenance like oil changes/ brake jobs. Subaru only sells the fluid in 5 gallon pails for over $300. Not much real world feedback on Amsoil and Other aftermarket CVT-3 fluids. Once I have the means to do it myself I’ll do drain and fills every 30-35k miles.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Honestly I think these engines are truly constricted to the 6k mile OCI Subaru established. I’m sure any Euro spec 0w-30 will carry it across the 6k finish line. However I wouldn’t be to happy with 10% fuel in my oil even though the viscosity might be ok. Anyways like mentioned before once my last 2 jugs of AFE are gone I’ll prob move on the ESP or Penzoil euro LX. We are just big dealing it probably majority of owners run the 6k on 0w-20 and have no idea how watered down their oil got. As far the CVT goes I I’m waiting for a recall to have parts. When it gets in the dealer I’ll prob bite the bullet and pay the $400 for a CVT drain and fill. I don’t currently have the means to do a full blown transmission fluid exchange in my apartment complex. Only basic maintenance like oil changes/ brake jobs. Subaru only sells the fluid in 5 gallon pails for over $300. Not much real world feedback on Amsoil and Other aftermarket CVT-3 fluids. Once I have the means to do it myself I’ll do drain and fills every 30-35k miles.

Fuel doesn’t track with mileage like iron does; there have been a couple members who’ve in-service sampled at shorter distances and freaked out about fuel content, only to leave it in the sump and find out on later samples some of the fuel had evaporated off even though they added a couple thousand miles. Make sure to drive it pretty hard & get the oil hot before you pull the next sample. Thanks for the UOA!

 

[Nuclear_42]

Fuel doesn’t track with mileage like iron does; there have been a couple members who’ve in-service sampled at shorter distances and freaked out about fuel content, only to leave it in the sump and find out on later samples some of the fuel had evaporated off even though they added a couple thousand miles. Make sure to drive it pretty hard & get the oil hot before you pull the next sample. Thanks for the UOA!

I always take my samples with my engine fully warmed up. 190+ deg F. Dilution was probably down due to winter being very mild this year in MN. This sample happened to be taken after a 30 mile round trip. Nobody yet really knows what fuel dilution would do in large quantity if modern DI at the long term. However a clue should be taken in to account with many manufacturers cutting back on OCI.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Nobody yet really knows what fuel dilution would do in large quantity if modern DI at the long term. However a clue should be taken in to account with many manufacturers cutting back on OCI.

GDI has been on the market since what, at least 2009, and prototypes for probably almost a decade before that. Plenty of people know what excess fuel does in oil, and it certainly doesn’t show itself as catastrophic for the most part.

Not all manufacturers have cut OCIs; Subaru has been 6k OCI on just about all engines except the turbo EJs that had the blocked banjo bolt issue, and those were reduced to 3750mi due to poor engineering, not fuel.

The 2018 FB25 (non GDI) I service and my 2019 FA24 (turbo GDI) both spec the same oil AND the same interval. Look at how rabid these clowns get about using 0w20 vs 5w30 for a good laugh…

Oil Weight

www.ascentforums.com

 

[Impatient]

Re the CVT thread highjack, I’ve heard lots of “rumors.” But MrSubaru on YouTube over-analysed this CVT thing in one of his vids, and there are a lot of comments, lots of disagreement. He said: Subaru is offering a 100k ext warranty on the CVT; (I’m not sure which one(s)), but one source supposedly told him they won’t honor the warranty if it’s been “tampered with” in any way…which he interpreted to include any fluid change. So he recommended NOT refreshing the fluid until after 100k. After that, by all means change it. THAT sounded like a big CYA. I fall into the “change the fluid multiple times before 100k” camp, but what do I know. I recently bought a 2013 Outback with the older 5EAT (non CVT) so that I wouldn’t have to deal with a CVT, and I was concerned with how the fluid looked at 80k, and not certain if factory fill; the irony will be when mine fails next month (sorry, that’s being a total pessimist) and all you CVT guys get 250k+ miles out of yours.

 

[Impatient]

So here we are, another thick vs thin discussion. As usual, I think there is a “not too thick, not too thin, just right” approach. Again, I would hesitate using a euro xw30, since they are the thickest 30’s, with the highest HTHS. 5w30 is the commodity grade in USA, and might have the most quality variability between offerings, as there are lots of ways to skin that cat to get to the rating. Pennzoil Ultra Plat 5w30 is a thin 5w30, but then, given you’re in Minnesota, maybe you want the 0w. So this M1 API 0w30 might be a good way to hedge your bet, since it ends up (quickly, I assume) in 20 weight territory, yet presumably flows better at super cold. My engines are spec’d for 5w30, but that doesn’t prevent me from feeling more comfortable with a “thick” 30 weight vs one that starts out just barely above the 20 - 30 boundary, which quickly shears or dilutes into 20 weight. So by trying something just barely over the 20 - 30 boundary, knowing it will thin to 20 weight, you are basically using similar philosophy.

But I assume you wouldn’t mind changing your oil less often, that maybe it would be a good thing to be able to get to 6,000 mi. So, I would want the best protection available given the fuel. I vote trying the Amsoil 0w30, or possibly an HPL 0w30 (non-euro). HPL’s Premium and Premium Plus 0w30’s might work quite well…but of course, will drain your wallet if they can’t protect at least twice as long as the Mobil. And it’s possible they won’t thin enough to end up in 20 weight territory. The Prem Plus has a slight advantage in cold flow, from what I’ve heard. Not sure how the Amsoil stacks up to it, but all 3 are quality stuff. However, trying a longer run on the M1 might show you it is plenty good enough, and radically cheaper.

 

[Impatient]

Hmmm, I made a rather broad statement re euro 0w30’s being too thick. Here is one that might not fit that mold.

VOA - BMW TwinPower Turbo LL01FE 0W-30

Brought this TPT LL01FE from my local dealer a week ago and put it in my B46TU1 engine. Will report back after 4-5k miles with a UOA.

bobistheoilguy.com

The VOA looks pretty good.

My EJ25 Subie likes Castrol (with its Ti), and I think this Ll01FE is made by Castrol. Strictly based on viscosity (and some other characteristics) this could be an interesting alternative for a 0w-20 engine (not my EJ25). It starts as a thin a5/b5 euro 30 weight. So has good chance of shearing/diluting into the “safe” upper end of 20 weight. I have no idea of cost, but maybe available from FCP or other euro parts houses, as well as BMW dealers. Or maybe too much trouble…

 

[Nuclear_42]

Just checked my airbox and the intake ducting. Everything is nice and tight. I guess I'll just wait for another 2-3 oil changes before testing again for silicone. Guessing it's factory new sealant/ gaskets still shedding.

 

[bluesubie]

Hmmm, I made a rather broad statement re euro 0w30’s being too thick. Here is one that might not fit that mold.

VOA - BMW TwinPower Turbo LL01FE 0W-30

Brought this TPT LL01FE from my local dealer a week ago and put it in my B46TU1 engine. Will report back after 4-5k miles with a UOA.

bobistheoilguy.com

The VOA looks pretty good.

My EJ25 Subie likes Castrol (with its Ti), and I think this Ll01FE is made by Castrol. Strictly based on viscosity (and some other characteristics) this could be an interesting alternative for a 0w-20 engine (not my EJ25). It starts as a thin a5/b5 euro 30 weight. So has good chance of shearing/diluting into the “safe” upper end of 20 weight. I have no idea of cost, but maybe available from FCP or other euro parts houses, as well as BMW dealers. Or maybe too much trouble…

Looking on the Subaru Japan site, I have found that both the JDM Crosstrek (specs 0W-16 here) and the WRX allow 0W-20, 5W-30 and Euro 0W-30. Both manuals make mention of the Les Pleiades 0W-30.

テクニカルデータ | LES PLÉIADES : Made for SUBARU Boxer Engines Best balance & Best protection

 

[02zx9r rev2]

Not much real world feedback on Amsoil and Other aftermarket CVT-3 fluids. Once I have the means to do it myself I’ll do drain and fills every 30-35k miles.

While not having a Subaru CVT, I have used Amsoil CVT fluid in my 2017 Honda accord sport for the last 53K miles.
I bought the car used with a little under 29K miles, at 32K miles I did a 3X drain and fill with Amsoil CVT fluid. I did a single d/f with Amsoil cvt fluid around the 62K mile mark (UOA posted) and will do another d/f around the 95K-100K mile mark.
No issues and I’m not expecting any. I just wanted a supposed better fluid than the Honda branded HCF-2 fluid

 

[thetricky]

Honestly I think these engines are truly constricted to the 6k mile OCI Subaru established. I’m sure any Euro spec 0w-30 will carry it across the 6k finish line. However I wouldn’t be to happy with 10% fuel in my oil even though the viscosity might be ok. Anyways like mentioned before once my last 2 jugs of AFE are gone I’ll prob move on the ESP or Penzoil euro LX. We are just big dealing it probably majority of owners run the 6k on 0w-20 and have no idea how watered down their oil got. As far the CVT goes I I’m waiting for a recall to have parts. When it gets in the dealer I’ll prob bite the bullet and pay the $400 for a CVT drain and fill. I don’t currently have the means to do a full blown transmission fluid exchange in my apartment complex. Only basic maintenance like oil changes/ brake jobs. Subaru only sells the fluid in 5 gallon pails for over $300. Not much real world feedback on Amsoil and Other aftermarket CVT-3 fluids. Once I have the means to do it myself I’ll do drain and fills every 30-35k miles.

I’ve run the Amsoil cvt in my 2014 for almost 90k miles and it’s been great. I did two drain/fills at 58k back to back, then another about 30k in which I even have a black stone report for. $300 for oem fluid is extortion.

 

[thetricky]

Re the CVT thread highjack, I’ve heard lots of “rumors.” But MrSubaru on YouTube over-analysed this CVT thing in one of his vids, and there are a lot of comments, lots of disagreement. He said: Subaru is offering a 100k ext warranty on the CVT; (I’m not sure which one(s)), but one source supposedly told him they won’t honor the warranty if it’s been “tampered with” in any way…which he interpreted to include any fluid change. So he recommended NOT refreshing the fluid until after 100k. After that, by all means change it. THAT sounded like a big CYA. I fall into the “change the fluid multiple times before 100k” camp, but what do I know. I recently bought a 2013 Outback with the older 5EAT (non CVT) so that I wouldn’t have to deal with a CVT, and I was concerned with how the fluid looked at 80k, and not certain if factory fill; the irony will be when mine fails next month (sorry, that’s being a total pessimist) and all you CVT guys get 250k+ miles out of yours.

Yep, I wasn’t worried dropping the oem fluid at 58k and messing with the warranty, that fluid needed changing. While I didn’t get it analyzed it was definitely crusty.