3 Row Reliability

[OVERKILL]

Below average (the Kia is better). Something else to consider, if you buy one it may become an orphan soon, the Pacificas are only assembled in Windsor, Ontario, Canada and a 25% tariff will kill it dead overnight. Furthermore, I don't expect that Stellantis will be around much longer. An auto manufacturer has to sell vehicles to survive, and none of the Stellantis brands are selling very well. Their sales share of the US new vehicle market has dropped from 12% to 6% in the last year. There are still brand new 2022 and 2023 models sitting on dealer lots, let alone large numbers of 2024 models!

Interestingly, Jeep saw an almost 200% sales increase in the UK for 2024:
https://www.motortrader.com/motor-t.../new-car-sales-2024-winners-losers-06-01-2025

Stellantis also has more cash on-hand than most of its peers (almost twice as much as GM and Ford). While they are bumbling around in North America, they are not a dead man walking yet.

Also, this article shows Stellantis going from 9.8 to 8.1% of US sales

 

[wag123]

Interestingly, Jeep saw an almost 200% sales increase in the UK for 2024:
https://www.motortrader.com/motor-t.../new-car-sales-2024-winners-losers-06-01-2025

Stellantis also has more cash on-hand than most of its peers (almost twice as much as GM and Ford). While they are bumbling around in North America, they are not a dead man walking yet.

Also, this article shows Stellantis going from 9.8 to 8.1% of US sales
View attachment 257805

The article that I was reading in Automotive News said that in terms of retail sales they went from 12% market share to 6% market share. I wonder if the chart in your post is actual retail sales verses number of vehicles manufactured and shipped (the manufacturer calls them "sales" because the dealers purchased them). With the large number of vehicles that the dealers have sitting on the ground unsold right now I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case. Looking at the dealer's lots around where I live, all of the Stellantis dealers are LOADED with inventory.
Stellantis may have plenty of money in the bank, but, an auto manufacturer has to sell vehicles to survive. A 15% year-to-year sales decline is horrible!
In terms of Day's Supply of dealer inventory as of Jan 1st...
Stellantis brands: Alfa Romeo - 232, Chrysler - 105, Dodge - 159, Jeep - 144, Ram - 179
Contrasted with: Honda - 40, Kia - 90, Lexus - 47, Toyota - 32 (includes trucks which is mostly all they have on their lots)
Other manufacturers that are doing really bad are: Lincoln - 186, Jaguar - 195, Mini - 183, and Volvo - 192
I suspect that Alfa and Lincoln will pull the plugs before the 2026 models come out.

 

[Brons2]

The Outlander is an excellent vehicle. They go for a steep discount versus the Toyota 4Runner and can last well beyond 200,000 miles if you service the CVT every 30k to 50k along with following the recommendations in the owners manual..

We had a 2018 Outlander for 6 years. They are reliable and get decent fuel economy. Pretty boring, but so is everything else in it's class. I am tall and the front space room was a little lacking compared to competitors, for most people probably not a problem though.

It would be charitable to call it a 3 row though, yes, the seats are back there, but no adult can sit in them.

I would compare it to a Rav4 or CR-V, not a 4Runner.

The current PHEV versions are pretty zippy with 233 gas+electric HP. The regular non-PHEV ones are slow, but quiet. Front seat room is much better on the current generation than the prior like we had. We drove some new ones before going a different direction.

If you want a true 3 row that's economical, look at the Sienna, we rented one for 10 days touring California and it was great. 35mpg going either 75 or stuck in LA traffic for two hours.

 

[OVERKILL]

The article that I was reading in Automotive News said that in terms of retail sales they went from 12% market share to 6% market share. I wonder if the chart in your post is actual retail sales verses number of vehicles manufactured and shipped (the manufacturer calls them "sales" because the dealers purchased them).

Well, that doesn't make sense, as that wouldn't explain the 12% for 2023 in your source vs the 9.8% in mine

With the large number of vehicles that the dealers have sitting on the ground unsold right now I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case. Looking at the dealer's lots around where I live, all of the Stellantis dealers are LOADED with inventory.

My dealer actually has less volume on the lot than they have historically had. They are one of the highest volume dealers in Ontario, so they have generally had very high inventory levels, but of course that was not possible during COVID. They aren't back to where they were previously, though with lower sales volumes now, they likely aren't inclined to keep the inventory that they used to.

The Grand Cherokee L Summit Reserve my parents just bought was a 2024, they ordered a couple of them with the 5.7L before it was discontinued as an option.

They have currently in stock:
2023: 2 vehicles. Both Grand Cherokee 4xe PHEV's
2024: 31 (2x FIAT, 5x Dodge, 6x Jeep, 7x Chrysler, 11x RAM)
2025: 42 (4x Dodge, 12x Jeep, 26x RAM)

One of the 2025 Dodge's is a 2025 Dodge Durango SRT Hellcat with a price of $169,756.
One of the 2024 Dodge's is a 2024 Dodge Durango SRT 392 Plus with a price of $87,835. Another is a Charger Daytona at $108,626.

Stellantis may have plenty of money in the bank, but, an auto manufacturer has to sell vehicles to survive. A 15% year-to-year sales decline is horrible!

Yes, it's bad, I'm not denying that, but they were still in the top 6 according to my list, selling almost twice as many vehicles as VW and Subaru and almost 3x more than Mazda.

In terms of Day's Supply of dealer inventory as of Jan 1st...
Stellantis brands: Alfa Romeo - 232, Chrysler - 105, Dodge - 159, Jeep - 144, Ram - 179
Contrasted with: Honda - 40, Kia - 90, Lexus - 47, Toyota - 32 (includes trucks which is mostly all they have on their lots)
Other manufacturers that are doing really bad are: Lincoln - 186, Jaguar - 195, Mini - 183, and Volvo - 192
I suspect that Alfa and Lincoln will pull the plugs before the 2026 models come out.

Yes, sales are down for many brands. High prices, high inflation, a crap economy...etc. Lots of factors. Stellantis has been trying to push more upmarket with products like the Wagoneer and Grand Cherokee, and while that may be good for per vehicle profits, it is going to negatively impact sales volume. I'm not counting them out yet, but they need to figure out what the hell they are doing, and who their target audience is (not just who they want it to be).

 

[Astro14]

After 3 pages of suggestions, I can't believe the Volvo XC90 hasn't been mentioned.
Sure, they've had their share of problems as many other manufacturers, but overall as @Astro14 will agree, Volvo's are generally quite stout machines, easily as reliable as many others in the segment.

My daughter’s 2004 XC90 has been through quite a bit, and runs just as well at 265,000 miles as it did when new. Most recently, it took my 3 kids and a friend to Mont Tremblant for a ski trip. Four adults, and quite a bit of gear, and it ran like a champ. This one happens to have the load-leveling suspension. I replaced the shocks (known as Nivomats) at 240,000 and the load leveling clearly works…

A properly sorted (that’s the key, properly sorted, not all of them are) XC90 would be a good choice.

 

[andrew_j]

I have a Honda Pilot and it’s beyond reliable and dead simple to fix.

 

[Corollaman]

I think the Highlander would provide good reliability along with good resale value. From my experience there are a lot of repeat Highlander buyers and that says something.

 

[Brons2]

The article that I was reading in Automotive News said that in terms of retail sales they went from 12% market share to 6% market share. I wonder if the chart in your post is actual retail sales verses number of vehicles manufactured and shipped (the manufacturer calls them "sales" because the dealers purchased them). With the large number of vehicles that the dealers have sitting on the ground unsold right now I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case. Looking at the dealer's lots around where I live, all of the Stellantis dealers are LOADED with inventory.
Stellantis may have plenty of money in the bank, but, an auto manufacturer has to sell vehicles to survive. A 15% year-to-year sales decline is horrible!
In terms of Day's Supply of dealer inventory as of Jan 1st...
Stellantis brands: Alfa Romeo - 232, Chrysler - 105, Dodge - 159, Jeep - 144, Ram - 179
Contrasted with: Honda - 40, Kia - 90, Lexus - 47, Toyota - 32 (includes trucks which is mostly all they have on their lots)
Other manufacturers that are doing really bad are: Lincoln - 186, Jaguar - 195, Mini - 183, and Volvo - 192
I suspect that Alfa and Lincoln will pull the plugs before the 2026 models come out.

Lincoln just had their best sales in 17 years, moved over 100,000 units in 2024.

 

[ryster]

1. Did not know about Traverse 2.5. Does it come with that 10 speed that is shared with FORD?
2. I owned Atlas. It is far more roomier than Honda or GHL in 1st and 2nd row. Atlas 1st and 2nd row are on par full size SUV. 2nd row is on par my 2018 Sequoia.
Trunk is similar between GHL and Atlas. Honda has smaller trunk. The problem in Honda is that trunk is not high enough as is in Atlas, where you can fit full size bag vertically without any “gymnastics.”
3rd row in Atlas is bigger than Pilot, similar to GHL. Pilot seating part is not as high as Atlas, which puts knees up a bit.
3. Hybrid MAX does have more power, but rear axle is only battery powered. That AWD system is only a OK. Far behind others.

The transmission in the 2025 Traverse is an 8-speed. Basically a "modified" version of the GM 9-speed transmission.

	2025 Pilot	2025 Atlas	2025 Grand Highlander
Front Head Room	40.5 in	41.3 in	41.5 in
Front Leg Room	41.0 in	41.7 in	41.7 in
Front Hip Room	58.4 in	58.2 in	56.5 in
Front Shoulder Room	61.9 in	61.5 in	60.2 in
2nd Row Head Room	40.2 in	40.4 in	40.2 in
2nd Row Leg Room	40.8 in	37.6 in	39.5 in
2nd Row Hip Room	57.4 in	58.0 in	57.0 in
2nd Row Shoulder Room	61.7 in	60.8 in	58.8 in
3rd Row Head Room	39.3 in	38.3 in	37.2 in
3rd Row Leg Room	32.5 in	33.7 in	33.5 in
3rd Row Hip Room	44.6 in	45.1 in	45.7 in
3rd Row Shoulder Room	59.5 in	54.9 in	57.5 in
Cargo Capacity w/All Seats in Place	18.6 ft³	20.6 ft³	20.6 ft³
Cargo Capacity w/2nd Row Folded	87.0 ft³	96.8 ft³	97.5 ft³
Cargo Capacity w/3rd Row Folded (2nd row still in place)	48.5 ft³	55.5 ft³	57.9 ft³
Length	199.9 in	200.7 in	201.4 in
Width	78.5 in	78.3 in	78.3 in
Height	71.0 in	70.1 in	70.1 in

 

[andrew_j]

Interestingly, Jeep saw an almost 200% sales increase in the UK for 2024:
https://www.motortrader.com/motor-t.../new-car-sales-2024-winners-losers-06-01-2025

Stellantis also has more cash on-hand than most of its peers (almost twice as much as GM and Ford). While they are bumbling around in North America, they are not a dead man walking yet.

Also, this article shows Stellantis going from 9.8 to 8.1% of US sales
View attachment 257805

A 200% increase to 6000 cars sold is not going to save Stellanis. Good for them though as it’s an EV. Jeeps sales for Europe are 100k ish / yr.

 

[Enthusiast]

Had a Pacifica rental last year. Loved it. But I've wondered about reliability and such...

When It comes to the Pacifica, the most likely problem is going to be electrical issues. If you want to buy a Pacifica, just stay away from the hybrid version. The hybrid versions tend to have more problems when it comes to the Pacifica. The transmission has had most of the bugs worked out of it. The engine's main problem is the plastic oil filter cooler housing. If it fails, get a metal one from dorman and use Mopar gaskets with it.

If this helps any, when my parents bought their 13 grand caravan I was very skeptical because of how bad the reliability ratings on official sources were. My parents now have over 165,000 mi on their van. The only things they've had to replace from my recollection is an O2 sensor, a thermostat, the stow n go seat got jammed once, The struts, a couple sets of tires, and the battery once. My dad is asking me to keep a close eye for him on when the Pacifica will either be discontinued or will lose the V6 engine because he wants to stay with minivans for the rest of his driving lifetime if possible And he absolutely loves the stow N go seats.

Another purchase they made that I was skeptical about was their 2019 Jeep Cherokee which uses the same transmission and a smaller version of the pentastar V6. On that one I told them to get an extended warranty just to be safe since it also had a similar reputation And I had previously driven a 2015 Chrysler 200 2.4 I4 using the same platform that had a very annoying quirk with the delay of first to second gear shifting being incredibly slow. 60,000 mi later, they haven't had any problems. The transmission never duplicated that issue and looking back appears to have only been related to the first couple years with the four cylinder. We have driven a couple of Pacifica many vans as rentals. The only flaw that I ever found with one of them was that the power outlet didn't work for our GPS. My parents have friends that have had two pacificas. The first one was totaled after an ice storm And they came out without a scratch. They haven't complained to us about either of them.

In comparison to the other minivans, I would be concerned about the Honda Odyssey if it's equipped with cylinder deactivation considering the reputation that that has concerning reliability. I would also be concerned about the gasoline direct injection requiring extra maintenance. I would also want to make sure that Honda has gotten the bugs fixed on the 10-speed transmission. Also remember that on the Odyssey with the 3.5 it's going to require a timing belt and water pump change around 100,000 mi unless they change the design. I'm assuming that's going to cost about a thousand to $1,500.

Concerning the sienna, the fact that it's exclusively a hybrid with a four-cylinder, the question is how long are you planning on owning the vehicle? Although the hybrid system is reliable and the transmission is very reliable and for my understanding the battery is reliable. If you're planning on within the warranty ownership, This probably won't be a problem. If you're planning on long-term, the battery will eventually have to be replaced depending on how long you plan to own it. Also remember that the 4 cylinder used by Toyota in this application uses more plastic than previous generation engines and that the water pump from my understanding is an electric water pump. That's something to keep in mind. It might be good to watch some videos by the car care nut to familiarize yourself if you're considering buying one of these siennas and going through the reputation of their current four-cylinder engines with all the use of plastic and the complexities of this engine since Toyota isn't exactly what they used to be.

If You are thinking about the carnival, are you planning on owning the vehicle past the warranty stage? If so, bear in mind that Kia doesn't have a perfect reputation for engine reliability either. Frankly no one is.

 

[brages]

If you're planning on long-term, the battery will eventually have to be replaced depending on how long you plan to own it. Also remember that the 4 cylinder used by Toyota in this application uses more plastic than previous generation engines and that the water pump from my understanding is an electric water pump.

I think that people generally have too much concern about hybrid battery replacement. They last longer than you think, and by the time they need to be replaced, you may have good options with refurb batteries. Plus, hybrid batteries are not huge.

I have a 2010 Prius with 245k, still trucking along on the original battery. It looks like a new Toyota replacement can be bought for well under $2000 - plus core and installation.

On the other hand, the brake actuator is always extremely complex and expensive on hybrids and they do fail - hopefully, Toyota has learned from the past (they tend to!) and the brake actuators (and inverters, another expensive hybrid part) would be reliable on a new Sienna. For 3rd gen and newer Priuses, the head gasket is a much bigger concern than battery life, but I am guessing they are not a problem on Siennas.

The electric water pump - I assume it's similar to the Aisin used in the 3rd gen Prius. It's not especially problematic, but they do eventually wear out. Not horribly expensive and pretty easy to replace.