3 day power outage, Westinghouse generator experience

[k1xv]

It is a fraudulent misrepresentation because decades of association with industrial quality manufacture built goodwill in the public market place, If the seller of the trade mark sells it without requiring the buyer to hold to those same high standards , it misleads the buyer into thinking the product will perform to the original Westinghouse standards.

What if Hershey chocolate sold the rights to the Hershey name without any product standards, and the chocolate bars sold as Hershey bars were total crap, not the quality that the buyer thought he was getting. Not fraud?

 

[Owen Lucas]

Westinghouse 2500W inverter generator

I wonder how clean the electricity really is from these inverter generators to run computers on. Maybe a UPS or something can clean it up but I'd be afraid to hook up sensitive electronics like a TV or laptop. Can power spikes happen from a fridge compressor kicking in? I don't know but when you need it I guess you need it.

Sad to see that nice tree broken!

 

[billt460]

What if Hershey chocolate sold the rights to the Hershey name without any product standards, and the chocolate bars sold as Hershey bars were total crap, not the quality that the buyer thought he was getting. Not fraud?

It happens all the time. You're confusing poor quality with deliberate fraud. They are 2 different things.

What if Hershey sold the whole company, lock, stock, and barrel. And the new owners produced crap? They did nothing illegal.

There is no law that says you have to maintain a high level of quality. The free market determines who lives, and who dies in the business world. Not the courtroom.

 

[AZjeff]

What if Hershey chocolate sold the rights to the Hershey name without any product standards, and the chocolate bars sold as Hershey bars were total crap, not the quality that the buyer thought he was getting. Not fraud?

Wow man. Doesn't the FDA set standards for food? Did you sue someone for fraud when the venerable Craftsman brand name was sold and the quality that built the brand disappeared? Happens all the time. You don't think a person should be responsible for knowing what he's buying.

Repeated Bill.

 

[billt460]

If Tiffany sold you a cubic Zirconia, and told you it was a diamond, that's fraud. And it's illegal.

But if they sold you a cheap, flawed diamond at a very low price, you can't complain just because it was Tiffany that sold it to you. And you expected more from them, based on their name alone.

 

[brianl703]

I wonder how clean the electricity really is from these inverter generators to run computers on. Maybe a UPS or something can clean it up but I'd be afraid to hook up sensitive electronics like a TV or laptop.

TV and laptop power supplies are quite tolerant of "dirty" power due to their design, which has the incoming power go through a bridge rectifier to convert it to pulsing DC and filter capacitors to convert it to smooth DC before it goes through the rest of the power supply.

 

[IndyIan]

I was expecting to read about something like a tractor trailer sized large diesel generator. Seems kind of sad that these historic names in N.A. manufacturing get put on stuff from China....
Seems weird they that they sell solar powered chinezy garden path lights on their website and then link to "Turnkey Nuclear Plant Operations" on the same website? https://www.westinghousenuclear.com/operating-plants
Maybe those garden lights are pretty good afterall?

 

[billt460]

TV and laptop power supplies are quite tolerant of "dirty" power due to their design, which has the incoming power go through a bridge rectifier to convert it to pulsing DC and filter capacitors to convert it to smooth DC before it goes through the rest of the power supply.

Thanks for that. It's very good to know.

 

[mk378]

GE is the same way. Household goods sold with the GE name have nothing to do with the original company. The real GE now only makes big ticket stuff: equipment for power plants, MRI and other medical machines, and jet engines.

Almost every "household name" has been bought and sold several times.

The invention that made George Westinghouse rich in the first place wasn't even electric. He only got rich because he was also good at business. People like Nikola Tesla who are purely inventors and not businessmen never get rich by inventing stuff. The best ones get something named after them. In Tesla's case it is a unit of measure of magnetic fields, not a car-- Elon just appropriated that.

 

[k1xv]

For those who think you can license a trademark and then sell crap, not true.

See https://ccbjournal.com/articles/quality-control-trademark-licensing

A partial quote:

Quality control provisions should be designed to ensure that any products or services offered under the licensed trademark are of a quality that is at least equal to, if not better than, any existing products or services offered by the licensor. Quality control provisions should also include strict guidelines for use of the licensed trademark, which should specifically describe how and where to affix the mark. In addition, quality control provisions should set forth clear and unambiguous product specifications and should describe adequate product inspection and approval procedures. Similarly, quality control provisions should specify that the licensor has the right to routinely inspect the manufacturing facilities to ensure compliance with the license agreement and applicable laws. A licensor should also demand the right to review customer service comments and complaints.

 

[Dave Sherman]

I wonder how clean the electricity really is from these inverter generators to run computers on. Maybe a UPS or something can clean it up but I'd be afraid to hook up sensitive electronics like a TV or laptop. Can power spikes happen from a fridge compressor kicking in? I don't know but when you need it I guess you need it.

Sad to see that nice tree broken!

You might be surprised to know that power from inverter generators is usually very clean compared to conventional generators. Conventional generators can vary on frequency accuracy, and their waveforms can have lots of distortion. Inverter generators usually have purely sinusoidal outputs and aren't affected by variations of the engine speed so they are usually a rock solid 60 Hz (or 50 Hz).

As Brianl703 pointed out, most power supplies for consumer electronics are actually very tolerant of dirty power.

 

[JTK]

You did more than excellent on fuel usage for a ~3day outage.

If we get storm warnings, I try to fill all 3 of my 5gal gasoline cans. Thankfully I've never really needed the two ~2K watt portable gasoline powered generators I have. Bigger generators would gobble up 2x that amount of fuel easily.

 

[billt460]

For those who think you can license a trademark and then sell crap, not true.

See https://ccbjournal.com/articles/quality-control-trademark-licensing

A partial quote:

Quality control provisions should be designed to ensure that any products or services offered under the licensed trademark are of a quality that is at least equal to, if not better than, any existing products or services offered by the licensor. Quality control provisions should also include strict guidelines for use of the licensed trademark, which should specifically describe how and where to affix the mark. In addition, quality control provisions should set forth clear and unambiguous product specifications and should describe adequate product inspection and approval procedures. Similarly, quality control provisions should specify that the licensor has the right to routinely inspect the manufacturing facilities to ensure compliance with the license agreement and applicable laws. A licensor should also demand the right to review customer service comments and complaints.

Something that is, "manufactured under license" for someone else to sell, is not the same as someone buying the trademark, name, or logo of a company that has gone bankrupt. And no longer exists in business to manufacture anything.

An example of this is Colt licensing Umarex to build a .22 AR-15 rifles with their name on it. In the license agreement Umarex is expected to maintain a quality of build level that satisfies Colt.

That's not the same as if Colt went out of business, and someone else bought the company in its entirety, (which has happened several times). Then the quality level, along with everything else is totally up to the new owners.

 

[alarmguy]

So whoever owned the Westinghouse name should have been limited to who it could be sold to. Right.

And if poor old Joe Schmoe didn't do his homework it's not his fault?

There's probably fraud involved in American car brands made in Mexico and Japanese brands made in Tennessee then.

Agree …
Yeah, business is business, in a free market you can sell the fruits of your labor for anything you want without interference.

Everyday fact of life. Latest prime example would be when people buy GE appliances. How many people know that is a Chinese company?
Just one tiny example who is to tell me what to do with my product, my company or my name?

Scary sometimes reading comments from others. (no politics)

 

[Thermo1223]

The only problem I encountered with propane (and small regular size tanks) is they freeze up before you can empty them all the way. I noticed putting them in direct sun helps. Probably not an issue for larger, say 40+ lb. tanks.

Otherwise I didn't see much of a performance difference.

Try a magnetic heating pad like for an oil pan. I know it's against the idea of the generator to begin with but if the sun doesn't work. You don't even need to run the pad the whole time.

Good to hear though, I have yet to use my Powermate PM9400E which uses a Generac engine but otherwise off brand. I hemmed & hawed over whether to get a 50amp model but figured in summer running the central air took precedent over the clothes dryer. I mean the sun is a pretty good clothes dryer.

 

[PWMDMD]

How did we arrive at Westinghouse generators suck? Mine has been a boss. Does exactly what it’s supposed to do. So it’s Chinese…who cares? My Chonda snowblower is 15 years old and the most reliable small engine I’ve owned.

FWIW…no issues running TV, Appletv and computer off my Westinghouse 9500.

 

[92saturnsl2]

You might be surprised to know that power from inverter generators is usually very clean compared to conventional generators. Conventional generators can vary on frequency accuracy, and their waveforms can have lots of distortion. Inverter generators usually have purely sinusoidal outputs and aren't affected by variations of the engine speed so they are usually a rock solid 60 Hz (or 50 Hz).

As Brianl703 pointed out, most power supplies for consumer electronics are actually very tolerant of dirty power.

The inverter generator (Westinghouse IGen2500) was spot on-- it has a digital readout for load (in kWh), fuel remaining (sadly in metric), time left on fuel, engine hours, current runtime. It handled the fridge and two chest freezers switching on and off no problem, with my computer, router, modem, and the entertainment center in the living room running. I saw a max sustained load of 1000W at any time. Peak load I'm not sure of, I couldn't time all three fridge/freezers to come on simultaneously nor did I try.

When I bought my Westinghouse 9500DF, someone on this forum recommended I buy a smaller unit for long duration outages-- and they were right. The smaller inverter generator runs on probably (just guessing) 1/10th less fuel.

Regarding power quality, had no issues with either unit. The conventional 9500DF would bog down for a half second when any large 240V motor driven appliances kicked on, specifically the 30A circuits I was running-- heat pump, hot water heater, clothes dryer; could only use one at a time of course. I'd see the lights in the house dim slightly for a split second, but all electronics on the 120V circuits coped fine with it. I had computer going, TV, lights, washing machine at some point, they were happy on whatever generator was hooked to it.

Like the above poster(s) mentioned, most modern electronics have a switching power supply that accepts 100-240+ volts and 50-60 hz and are plenty tolerant of power. No sense in creating two different power supplies for the world market, so they accept any voltage and frequency between the world norms. Beware of any electronics that have a switch to switch from 120V to 240V, those are the ones you have to be careful on, with crude generator power. These days that switch implies the cheapest / lowest cost technology the manufacturer could possibly use.

 

[92saturnsl2]

How did we arrive at Westinghouse generators suck? Mine has been a boss. Does exactly what it’s supposed to do. So it’s Chinese…who cares? My Chonda snowblower is 15 years old and the most reliable small engine I’ve owned.

FWIW…no issues running TV, Appletv and computer off my Westinghouse 9500.

Some folks have a bad habit of prematurely connecting the boxes between foreign / Chinese made and junk, I think it's an old school way of thinking. I can't blame them, it's sad our manufacturing capability / capacity has dwindled like it has, but that's been happening for 40+ years now and yet people vote for the same corrupt political parties.

For me, it's basic dollar math and availability. Many things we want to buy today simply aren't made in the USA, or you have to sell your first born or kidneys to afford one. Not my fault.

 

[AZjeff]

Yes, who said the generators are junk? The spark plug it came with was crappy but the gen works fine. K1xv made that leap.

 

[k1xv]

Something that is, "manufactured under license" for someone else to sell, is not the same as someone buying the trademark, name, or logo of a company that has gone bankrupt. And no longer exists in business to manufacture anything.

An example of this is Colt licensing Umarex to build a .22 AR-15 rifles with their name on it. In the license agreement Umarex is expected to maintain a quality of build level that satisfies Colt.

That's not the same as if Colt went out of business, and someone else bought the company in its entirety, (which has happened several times). Then the quality level, along with everything else is totally up to the new owners.

Only ptoblem, Westinghouse claims it still exists and is the same company that was formed in 1886. If its true, they are licensing the name. If it is not true, it is fraud.

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