3 consecutive 6 month UOAs for 1ZZFE (Vibe)

[21Rouge]

This car no longer gets many quality miles...especially this most recent interval. Weekday routine is to and from the train station, less than 1 miles each way. So M-F it would rarely get to operating temp. And we are in a cold weather climate.

(FWIW the GC was replaced with RLI 0W30. We shall see how that works out by next July)


Code:


Sample Date JAN 10/09 (July 7/09) January 10/10



B L A C K S T O N E



Oil GC 0W-30 ((Pennzoil Platinum 5w30)) GC 0W-30

Filter Toyota filter (AC Delco) Toyota filter

Total Miles 47,000 miles (50,475 miles) 53820 miles

Miles on oil 4200 in 5 months (3660 in 6 months) 3349 miles in 6 months

Make up oil 0 (250 mls) 0



Aluminum....... 2 (3) 2

Chromium....... 0 (0) 0

Iron........... 6 (11) 6

Copper......... 1 (1) 1

Lead........... 1 (0) 1

Tin............ 0 (0) 0

Moly........... 3 (49) 7

Nickel......... 0 (0) 0

Manganese...... 1 (1) 1

Silver......... 0 (0) 0

Titanium....... 0 (0) 0

Potassium...... 1 (1) 4

Boron.......... 1 (12) 4

Silicon........ 13 (9) 12

Sodium......... 2 (3) 1

Calcium........ 2707 (2628) 2779

Magnesium...... 134 (42) 131

Phosphorus..... 709 (732) 786

Zinc........... 890 (957) 919

Barium......... 0 (0) 1



Flashpoint F... 320 (390) 350

Fuel........... 3.3 (
Antifreeze..... 0.0 (0.0) 0.0

Water.......... 0.0 (0.0) 0.0

Insoluables.... 0.3 (0.4) 0.5

SUS [email protected] (60.6) 60.5

cST [email protected] (10.39) 10.35

TBN (3.6) 5.3

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Weekday routine is to and from the train station, less than 1 miles each way. So M-F it would rarely get to operating temp. And we are in a cold weather climate.

I guess that would explain the fuel dilution.

By the way, is this the old green GC?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Sound like a walk instead of a drive. PP with high(ish) Iron?!

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
By the way, is this the old green GC?



I have both but I am confident that each of these non consecutive runs of GC was with the old green version.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Sound like a walk instead of a drive.


I agree but my wife does not want to walk it and in the winter when it is very dark in the early morning and evening she feels safer going to and from the station in a car.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
So M-F it would rarely get to operating temp. And we are in a cold weather climate.

I guess that would explain the fuel dilution.


And there was probably more fuel than is indicated in this UOA as I did a 20 minute HWY run prior to sampling it. If you look at the previous January 09 sample it shows over 3% fuel and on that day it was bitterly cold and I drove it a very short distance prior to sampling. I tried to avoid that 'error' this time.

 

[CATERHAM]

I'm sure the fuel content is the primary reason for the vis' drop of 15% with GC.

Short trips in the warm summer months are generally not an issue like the winter and your PP OCI bares this out, consiquently you could for go the mid-summer oil change if you were so inclined.

BTW, doesn't the Vibe have an oil condition monitor?

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I'm sure the fuel content is the primary reason for the vis' drop of 15% with GC.


For sure. But it does not seem to have contributed to any increase in wear that one can see looking at UOA #s.

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Short trips in the warm summer months are generally not an issue like the winter and your PP OCI bares this out,


For the presence of fuel and hence the associated shearing it seems, looking at these 3 used oil analysis, that going from January to July is 'different' than going from July to January (even though of course both 6 month intervals cover cold and warm weather)

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

BTW, doesn't the Vibe have an oil condition monitor?


Mine (MY 2005) does not. Some sort of OLM system should be mandatory on all new vehicles. (But now that I think of it maybe all new cars have some OLM system). I am sure it does not add much to the cost of the vehicle and of course does help to preserve resources.

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge

For the presence of fuel and hence the associated shearing it seems, looking at these 3 used oil analysis, that going from January to July is 'different' than going from July to January (even though of course both 6 month intervals cover cold and warm weather)

Different in the sense that you are pulling the oil out in January after a month or two of cold weather. While in July the engine has had the opportunity to burn off that fuel before sampling... that's my guess anyway.

With respect to fuel dilution, I would expect more in the Months of Jan, Feb and March than any other months, unless you live below the equator

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge

For the presence of fuel and hence the associated shearing it seems, looking at these 3 used oil analysis, that going from January to July is 'different' than going from July to January (even though of course both 6 month intervals cover cold and warm weather)

Different in the sense that you are pulling the oil out in January after a month or two of cold weather. While in July the engine has had the opportunity to burn off that fuel before sampling... that's my guess anyway.


But the burn off at the end due to sampling in July is just cosmetic as going through the cold months (Jan to say Mar) would still result in steady fuel dilution. (Although now that I look at the PP run the flashpoint is still high and there wasnt alot of shearing...I dont know

).

 

[21Rouge]

A bit OT:

After draining and sampling the GC that is seen most recently in the used oil analysis chart I posted I filled for the first time with RLI 0W30. The plan is to run this 6 months which would take me to July. I will then sample it for purposes of a used oil analysis.

You can see this car's last 3 consecutive runs of oil, as well this 5 year old car has seen nothing but quality synthetics from almost day 1.

Now I know the experience so far with oils that are high in ester content is to see, in a first and second used oil analysis, evidence of chemical cleaning/leaching. So any predictions as to what we might see in terms of wear #s for al/pb/fe etc (as compared to the used oil analysis posted above e.g. double, triple,..)?

 

[CATERHAM]

I don't know but I would consider it just noise whatever it is.

In fact with the anticipated mileage in July being only 3500 miles I'd save the coin and wait a year to do your next UOA.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Thanks for posting your used oil analysis. Yours is another example of an extremely clean Toyota 1ZZ-FE engine. Even though the OCI mileage is relatively low, those wear numbers look to be excellent.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: Jason Adcock
Even though the OCI mileage is relatively low, those wear numbers look to be excellent.


Yes the oil interval mileage is low so it is the time interval that kicks in i.e. twice a year, once every 6 months.

 

[CATERHAM]

Is the 6 months a GM requirement 'cause you know you can go longer on such a premium oil.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Is the 6 months a GM requirement 'cause you know you can go longer on such a premium oil.


For sure CATERHAM. The wear #s are fine for these past three 6 month intervals and the most recent TBN was over 5.

To be honest I dont know why I have been going with the 6 month interval as technically it does not fit with any of the requirements in the owner's manual

i.e

If anyone of these is true for you,use the short trip/city maintenance schedule:

• Most trips are less than 5 miles (8km). This is particularly important when outside temperatures are below freezing.
• Most trips include extensive idling,such as frequent driving in stop-and-go traffic.
• You frequently tow a trailer or use a carrier on top of your vehicle.
• The vehicle is used for delivery service, police, taxi, or other commercial application.

If any one of these is true for your vehicle,then you need to change your oil and filter every 3,000 miles(5000km) or 3 months—whichever occurs first.

If none of them are true,use the long trip/highway maintenance schedule. Change the oil and filter every 7,500 miles (12500km) or 12 months—whichever occurs first.

If push came to shove it is only the first bullet in the severe schedule above which describes the lifestyle of this car...in the winter. But I know from the many used oil analysis I have done that any of the premium synthetics I use with this engine easily go longer than 3 months or 6 months.

So technically it is either go 3 month or the jump to 12 months and I am kind of splitting the difference going to 6 months

.

 

[CATERHAM]

Except everything you've mentioned is in lieu of the fact you are performing regular UOA to determine the oil's condition.
Still being cautious (of what I don't know) you could take a sample in July without an oil change and then make your decision.

 

[FZ1]

Different approach. The engine is wearing consistently and well with the 6 month oci. Continue with the 6 mo oci and save money by not doing the oil analysis.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Still being cautious (of what I don't know)


I am still snake bitten from having a used oil analysis detect a small leak of coolant in a previous car.

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
you could take a sample in July without an oil change and then make your decision.


+1. That is what I will do with this first run of RLI.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
The engine is wearing consistently and well with the 6 month oci. Continue with the 6 mo oci and save money by not doing the oil analysis.


For sure reasonable advice FZ1. I guess I still have a foot in each camp i.e. kind of doing OCIs and oil somewhat according to the manual for warranty purposes yet going possibly beyond the prescribed interval with non GM 6094 oil but seeing that all was still fine via multiple used oil analysis.

How do I sleep at night?