The amount is over 10 years I believe.
250 billion to american jobs
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Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Remember the 'free trade agreements' were nothing of the sort. They were hundreds of pages of special treatment and rules favoring the other country. The US and it's workers always came out the looser. The other countries, like China, would never sign them if it did not favor them.
And, this is why we are not paying 10 cents apiece for huge avocados from Mexico - because protectionist language was added to NAFTA to protect California avocado growers.
Oh, at some point, it would be so nice if we could think of ourselves as earthlings - not Americans, Chinese, Mexicans, etc. Until then, we are most likely doomed. It won't be today, tomorrow, or even a hundred years from now, but we are doomed to the fate of small minded beings.
Remember the 'free trade agreements' were nothing of the sort. They were hundreds of pages of special treatment and rules favoring the other country. The US and it's workers always came out the looser. The other countries, like China, would never sign them if it did not favor them.
And, this is why we are not paying 10 cents apiece for huge avocados from Mexico - because protectionist language was added to NAFTA to protect California avocado growers.
Oh, at some point, it would be so nice if we could think of ourselves as earthlings - not Americans, Chinese, Mexicans, etc. Until then, we are most likely doomed. It won't be today, tomorrow, or even a hundred years from now, but we are doomed to the fate of small minded beings.
The truth is, people have to stop buying cheap made in ____________you name it offshore products. If walmart sells something and its made in usa or canada i will buy it. I refuse to buy cheap plastic stuff (coffee makers etc..) but the reality is..is that instead of people dictating what we buy we let walmart and companies tell us to buy. People want cheap they get cheap. Reality is the majority wants it as cheap as possible.
Originally Posted By: bigt61
Capitalism works!.... with minimal regulation. Socialism does not work and hasn't worked wherever it has been tried. The human spirit thrives on the energy to succeed. Thankfully, most capitalists also have a sense of morality, but sadly, there will always be some who do not.
You are right...and, wrong. Since we are relatively "young" experiment in comparison with noted civilizations on planet Earth (those for which we have historical records, at least) it would be very arrogant to say we are "all that." The human desire to succeed is strong, but human selfishness and gluttony are very strong drivers as well. We're like pet fish. Feed us the right amount and we'll be happy. Take away the struggle and we will become gluttonous beasts and feed until we explode.
Only time will tell. But, I seriously doubt the Great American Melting Pot will outlast the great empires of antiquity. That's pretty much what we are today - a "benevolent" empire.
Capitalism works!.... with minimal regulation. Socialism does not work and hasn't worked wherever it has been tried. The human spirit thrives on the energy to succeed. Thankfully, most capitalists also have a sense of morality, but sadly, there will always be some who do not.
You are right...and, wrong. Since we are relatively "young" experiment in comparison with noted civilizations on planet Earth (those for which we have historical records, at least) it would be very arrogant to say we are "all that." The human desire to succeed is strong, but human selfishness and gluttony are very strong drivers as well. We're like pet fish. Feed us the right amount and we'll be happy. Take away the struggle and we will become gluttonous beasts and feed until we explode.
Only time will tell. But, I seriously doubt the Great American Melting Pot will outlast the great empires of antiquity. That's pretty much what we are today - a "benevolent" empire.
How many folks here realize that our Founding Fathers did NOT advocate "capitalism" or "socialism", but they did
promote "free enterprise" which should NOT be confused with capitalism at ALL.
I see capitalism and socialism as equally evil concepts.
promote "free enterprise" which should NOT be confused with capitalism at ALL.
I see capitalism and socialism as equally evil concepts.
Walmart customers are out of work. Think about it.
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Remember the 'free trade agreements' were nothing of the sort. They were hundreds of pages of special treatment and rules favoring the other country. The US and it's workers always came out the looser. The other countries, like China, would never sign them if it did not favor them.
Some countries got bent over by the US...
Remember the 'free trade agreements' were nothing of the sort. They were hundreds of pages of special treatment and rules favoring the other country. The US and it's workers always came out the looser. The other countries, like China, would never sign them if it did not favor them.
Some countries got bent over by the US...
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
How many folks here realize that our Founding Fathers did NOT advocate "capitalism" or "socialism", but they did
promote "free enterprise" which should NOT be confused with capitalism at ALL.
I see capitalism and socialism as equally evil concepts.
While I agree that the polar extremes are both not possible and not advisable I wonder, often, about references to "the founding fathers." Not that we should not admire them, of course, but what makes them infallible and qualified as designers of current society? Look at how many major and minor issues there were between the founding fathers' government and the people. (i.e. The Whiskey Rebellion and The Civil War).
The government envisioned by the framers of the Constitution was for a very different world. I wonder if those guys ever predicted how lazy, apathetic, and immoral our society would become.
How many folks here realize that our Founding Fathers did NOT advocate "capitalism" or "socialism", but they did
promote "free enterprise" which should NOT be confused with capitalism at ALL.
I see capitalism and socialism as equally evil concepts.
While I agree that the polar extremes are both not possible and not advisable I wonder, often, about references to "the founding fathers." Not that we should not admire them, of course, but what makes them infallible and qualified as designers of current society? Look at how many major and minor issues there were between the founding fathers' government and the people. (i.e. The Whiskey Rebellion and The Civil War).
The government envisioned by the framers of the Constitution was for a very different world. I wonder if those guys ever predicted how lazy, apathetic, and immoral our society would become.
I guess what I don't understand about this whole outsourcing thing is why do American businesses get tax breaks for outsourcing? Wouldn't it make more sense to tax the c r a p out of companies that outsource and give the breaks to those that choose to make their products here?
But isn't the current system an exponential increase in complexity?
If you keep things simple, how often do you really need those folks? If you keep adding more regulation, special rules, etc, then the demand for the specialists you mention grows and the whole thing feeds on itself.
I'm not saying free-for-all, wild west, everything goes. But the regulation some call for now has your local tire store telling you you can't put that tire on your car because it doesn't exactly match the engineered size. Even if it exceeds the specifications, you are not allowed to think for yourself. You must follow the specification, even if the specified product is inferior to the one you want to use.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I would say that capitalism, in it's purest form, demands the consumer become educated. You can't act in your self interest if you are unable to determine what is in your best interest.
But how can you be as educated as possible? If you need a lawyer, accountant, mechanic, doctor, they will know more than you. Otherwise you wouldn't need them. You could know "enough" to spot an obvious swindle, but how would a layman unravel, say, mortgage-backed derivatives?
Hope I'm not being a pest.
Oh, forgot to fix the MBS issue. Simple, don't let them get bailed out by the government. Once it's their gold on the line and not the taxpayers money, they will be far more careful how they do business.
Notice how the banks wouldn't back each other up in 2007/2008. Why? They didn't trust one another.
Why did the Federal Government trust them?
Remove the airbag and put a big spike on the banking system steering wheel called natural consequences
If you keep things simple, how often do you really need those folks? If you keep adding more regulation, special rules, etc, then the demand for the specialists you mention grows and the whole thing feeds on itself.
I'm not saying free-for-all, wild west, everything goes. But the regulation some call for now has your local tire store telling you you can't put that tire on your car because it doesn't exactly match the engineered size. Even if it exceeds the specifications, you are not allowed to think for yourself. You must follow the specification, even if the specified product is inferior to the one you want to use.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I would say that capitalism, in it's purest form, demands the consumer become educated. You can't act in your self interest if you are unable to determine what is in your best interest.
But how can you be as educated as possible? If you need a lawyer, accountant, mechanic, doctor, they will know more than you. Otherwise you wouldn't need them. You could know "enough" to spot an obvious swindle, but how would a layman unravel, say, mortgage-backed derivatives?
Hope I'm not being a pest.
Oh, forgot to fix the MBS issue. Simple, don't let them get bailed out by the government. Once it's their gold on the line and not the taxpayers money, they will be far more careful how they do business.
Notice how the banks wouldn't back each other up in 2007/2008. Why? They didn't trust one another.
Why did the Federal Government trust them?
Remove the airbag and put a big spike on the banking system steering wheel called natural consequences
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What sort of tax breaks are we talking about? I know, due to practices of a former employer, that corporations set up offshore subsidiaries so they can make it look like the offshore company is "selling" to its other divisions. The offshore entities are set up in places like Gibraltar and Switzerland where they don't get taxed. While it is legal, it's not at all ethical - IMO.
I am not sure how offshoring the jobs provides tax breaks unless you are talking about not having to pay social security taxes and health benefits.
I am not sure how offshoring the jobs provides tax breaks unless you are talking about not having to pay social security taxes and health benefits.
Those large companies and the rich spent a ton on lobbyists to get those tax loopholes put into place, which is why we'll never see any discernible tax reform in this country.
The little guy doesn't have enough $$$ to buy a voice in Washington.
All free trade did was move American jobs out of the country.
The little guy doesn't have enough $$$ to buy a voice in Washington.
All free trade did was move American jobs out of the country.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Because of the high levels of inflation causing the US dollar to be worth less, it's financially beneficial to these companies to manufacture here in the USA.
+1
Chinese labor is getting more and more expensive, and they are starting to see shortage in cheap labors recently despite increasing wages (now around $500 USD / month, up from around $300-400 a few years ago).
Because of the high levels of inflation causing the US dollar to be worth less, it's financially beneficial to these companies to manufacture here in the USA.
+1
Chinese labor is getting more and more expensive, and they are starting to see shortage in cheap labors recently despite increasing wages (now around $500 USD / month, up from around $300-400 a few years ago).
JHZR2
Staff member
Not sure I actually understand the details of their claims/pledge.
WMT's annual revenue is around $450B. Supposedly their foreign production is around 90% of what they sell.
So yearly they do around $45B in US made products. Their gross margin is around 25%, so this means about $34B per year to the US economy in terms of wholesale manufactured products. Over 10 years, that's around $340B in the economy.
So are they implying that over the next 10 years they will increase their purchases of US made stuff (I did see US made towels there last time I walked through) by $250B (i.e. from $340B to 590B), or will they actually invest in manufacturing infrastructure (i.e. insource some stuff to be manufactured by them, and/or investing in reducing costs at their manufacturers), yet keeping the US content at around $340B plus their typical annual growth?
WMT's annual revenue is around $450B. Supposedly their foreign production is around 90% of what they sell.
So yearly they do around $45B in US made products. Their gross margin is around 25%, so this means about $34B per year to the US economy in terms of wholesale manufactured products. Over 10 years, that's around $340B in the economy.
So are they implying that over the next 10 years they will increase their purchases of US made stuff (I did see US made towels there last time I walked through) by $250B (i.e. from $340B to 590B), or will they actually invest in manufacturing infrastructure (i.e. insource some stuff to be manufactured by them, and/or investing in reducing costs at their manufacturers), yet keeping the US content at around $340B plus their typical annual growth?
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Not sure I actually understand the details of their claims/pledge. ....
So are they implying that over the next 10 years they will increase their purchases of US made stuff .....
Not $250B.
An additional $50B, over ten years, of purchases of additional domestic manufactured product - somebody else has to step up to do the investment in the manufacturing.
"About two-thirds of the merchandise Wal-Mart buys already comes from the United States, but most of that is tied to its grocery side, said Katie Cody, a Wal-Mart spokeswoman."
See: http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/article/97280/wal-marts-pledge-met-with-hope-skepticism?page=all
for additional details and skepticism.
Not sure I actually understand the details of their claims/pledge. ....
So are they implying that over the next 10 years they will increase their purchases of US made stuff .....
Not $250B.
An additional $50B, over ten years, of purchases of additional domestic manufactured product - somebody else has to step up to do the investment in the manufacturing.
"About two-thirds of the merchandise Wal-Mart buys already comes from the United States, but most of that is tied to its grocery side, said Katie Cody, a Wal-Mart spokeswoman."
See: http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/article/97280/wal-marts-pledge-met-with-hope-skepticism?page=all
for additional details and skepticism.
JHZR2
Staff member
The commercials I saw during the olympics specifically said $250B over 10 years.
Ive seen 85-90% claimed as overseas wares...
Ive seen 85-90% claimed as overseas wares...
Originally Posted By: bigt61
Capitalism works!.... with minimal regulation. Socialism does not work and hasn't worked wherever it has been tried. The human spirit thrives on the energy to succeed. Thankfully, most capitalists also have a sense of morality, but sadly, there will always be some who do not. I personally love that Walmart ad - the version I have seen ends with...."Work is a beautiful thing."
There is socialism here right now and always has been. Fire and police depts, county water, sewer, roads, the list goes on. People aren't working solely for Wal-Mart, Gov't job, etc. They are working for their family and themselves. They see little if any profit that capitalism brings for the owner, but work hard nonetheless. Capitalism works when it is regulated. Anti-trust laws, tariffs, minimal standards are the gov'ts job to enforce.
Capitalism works!.... with minimal regulation. Socialism does not work and hasn't worked wherever it has been tried. The human spirit thrives on the energy to succeed. Thankfully, most capitalists also have a sense of morality, but sadly, there will always be some who do not. I personally love that Walmart ad - the version I have seen ends with...."Work is a beautiful thing."
There is socialism here right now and always has been. Fire and police depts, county water, sewer, roads, the list goes on. People aren't working solely for Wal-Mart, Gov't job, etc. They are working for their family and themselves. They see little if any profit that capitalism brings for the owner, but work hard nonetheless. Capitalism works when it is regulated. Anti-trust laws, tariffs, minimal standards are the gov'ts job to enforce.
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The 85-90% figure for all merchandise doesn't sound believable. Sounds like FUD designed to cause folks to shop elsewhere.
Given how large W*M is one would think 80-90% of everything we buy would come from overseas and that's not true.
In 2012 we exported $2.2 Trillion and imported $2.7 Trillion as an economy.
The entire GDP in 2012 was in the $15 Trillion range.
Doesn't seem plausible that 80-90% of what W*M sells is imported goods when viewed along side the entire economic picture.
Given how large W*M is one would think 80-90% of everything we buy would come from overseas and that's not true.
In 2012 we exported $2.2 Trillion and imported $2.7 Trillion as an economy.
The entire GDP in 2012 was in the $15 Trillion range.
Doesn't seem plausible that 80-90% of what W*M sells is imported goods when viewed along side the entire economic picture.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Those large companies and the rich spent a ton on lobbyists to get those tax loopholes put into place, which is why we'll never see any discernible tax reform in this country.
The little guy doesn't have enough $$$ to buy a voice in Washington.
All free trade did was move American jobs out of the country.
Union membership used to buy you a voice, but those nice wholesome guys in DC are trying hard to bust our unions. These companies had plenty to begin with, but that's not enough. They want it all and don't give a hoot how bad you suffer as long as they get theirs.
Those large companies and the rich spent a ton on lobbyists to get those tax loopholes put into place, which is why we'll never see any discernible tax reform in this country.
The little guy doesn't have enough $$$ to buy a voice in Washington.
All free trade did was move American jobs out of the country.
Union membership used to buy you a voice, but those nice wholesome guys in DC are trying hard to bust our unions. These companies had plenty to begin with, but that's not enough. They want it all and don't give a hoot how bad you suffer as long as they get theirs.
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