25,000 mile Mobile 1

[olefam]

Does anyone besides me remember when Mobil 1 came out it was advertised as a "25,000 mile between oil change" product?
I called Mobil and asked them what they had done to make the oil "worse" than it used to be. "Nothing" was their response.
Then I asked why their oil would no longer last as long as it used to, given the presumed improvements over time.
Their response was more lengthy, but boiled down to auto manufacturer's warranty issues.
These questions were asked in 1998. Now Mobil is producing a product that they claim is a 15,000 mile "EP" oil. Still, no indication that their prior formula has become worse, or the earlier product was degraded.
More additives in the EP? Probably. But if the old oil started off being able to handle 25,000 mile intervals, I'm pretty confident it will still do at least 10,000 mile intervals with no difficulty at all.
So why is it that some better informed people such as ourselves believe that we need to change Mobil 1 at 3000 - 5000 mile intervals? Do our more modern engines produce more acids than the engines of 30 years ago? Do they produce more particulate matter that needs to be drained in order to be gotten rid of? My 17 year old Vette runs no hotter and no cooler today than it did when new, but the old Mobil 1 was perfectly acceptable at that time, and likely still is.
Are newer oil filters worse at filtering than oil filters were 30 years ago?
In short, where is the logic in spending more for "EP" and changing far more often than the oil calls for?
Just a series of questions that have been tickling my brain.
Glen

 

[ruking77]

Yes I do remember! If anything the oil STANDARDS have gotten better!!

I currently run a 25,000 mile OCI with Delvac One 5w40 aka Mobil 1 Truck and SUV.

Been running 15,000 OCI's for some years (19)and miles (765,000).

[ February 08, 2006, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: ruking77 ]

 

[pitzel]

All Mobil 1 that is sold today is capable of 25k mile drains in some vehicles.

The results will obviously vary, from vehicle to vehicle. In some vehicles, M1 may only be optimal for 10-15k mile drains. While 40k+ mile drains are possible in others.

It is rather foolish to claim a standard interval for all engines, as different models of engine place different levels and types of stresses on the oil.

If you have a used oil analysis that says 10k or 15k miles is good, and you have taken a TBN reading, you can pretty much extrapolate to what extent the oil can safely be run. For instance, if you take an oil with a TBN of 12 initially, run it for 15k miles, and its TBN goes down to around 7, 25k is very conservative.

Changing Mobil 1 at 3-5k mile intervals is just silly. If one has an engine that has such poor contamination seal, then its probably best to not even waste money on using a synthetic oil anyways.

 

[blupupher]

Well, Mobil 1 can easily do 10k in most applications, but getting people to switch from a 3k to a 10k OCI is hard. If your buying Mobil 1 Extended Performance and not going at least 10k, your wasting your money IMO.

 

[oily boyd]

During the ads you remember, a friend had a 1980 Datsun (nissan) 200SX with the 100 hp 1.8L engine.

He ran Mobil 1 changed at 25,000 mi intervals BUT also changed the filter and topped up every 3,000 miles.

That car ran sweet for ~150,000 miles before a collision with a snowplow killed it (driver unhurt).

 

[Ugly3]

The first Mobil 1 oil to recommend 25,000 change intervals was 5w20.

 

[castor]

i do, in the '80's in nz, wrecked a perfectly good toyota engine listening to that sh!t, maybe it should have been done like oily boyd's friend

 

[speedtc]

25,000 miles on 5w20! Awesome!

 

[Eddie]

Was the a time limit imposed besides the 25,000 mile?

 

[Pablo]

Is there an e in Mobil?

PS I believe from reading your post what Mobil told you is factual and correct.

 

[wavinwayne]

Mobil 1 5w20 can go 25k miles? WOW! That's it; I'm going to start doing 25k mile OCI's with Mobil 1 5w20 in my VW 1.8T.

 

[michaelc80]

Olefam,
There are certain conditions under which it's perfectly acceptable to run extended OCI's, up to and including 25K miles.

1. A Used Oil Analysis is done periodically (every 6-7K miles or so) to make sure the oil is holding up to the engine/driving combination.

2. The filter is changed periodically (every 6-7K miles or so) and the oil topped off.

IF the used oil analysis support it, and IF you're using a top grade oil and IF your driving style/conditions/engine type allow for it then extended OCI's are fine.

Conditions where extended OCI's are not a good idea? IF you don't plan to check it with used oil analysis (at least the first time through) or IF you have a turbo or other engine factor that makes that particular engine hard on oil. Or IF your vehicle is still under warranty and you don't want any hassles in the event you have an engine problem.

As Castor so politely pointed out, simply dumping it in and driving is a dumb idea.

A lot of people simply hedge their bets and do 3-5K oil changes. I don't go the full 25,000 with Amsoil because the used oil analysis on my wifes Jeep tell me that wouldn't be wise. So I keep it around 10K. Higher than that and the wear metals and fuel dilution start to get higher than I like.

I do 5-7K OCI's in my Z on Amsoil because it only gets run in the summer (and run fairly hard). So 5-7K is a full year for it.

I do 5-6K OCI's in my new Subaru and use Amsoil because I have it on hand for the Z. Buying it in quantity makes it price competitive and it saves me the hassle of going and buying a different oil each time I want to change the Subaru. Since it's under warranty I won't try extending the oil changes out yet.

 

[Dick in Falls Church]

Best I recall, the original claim for Mobil 1 was in the 12,500 area. Then went to 15,000, then to 25,000. Then it disappeared, about the time Mobil got the GM factory fill contract.
By the time they went to 15 and 25, the oil had been reformulated to 5w30.

From the little test data I've seen, the Mobil 1 Extended Drain is considerably beefier than the regular.

 

[M Smith]

wavinwayne - Where did you get those photos? Is that your can of API SF Mobil 1? API SF, would that be from the mid or late 70's? I didn't realize that back then Mobil marketed Mobil 1 in a 5w30. Originally I believe it was only available in 5W-20 and it wasn't sold anywhere but the northeast and northwest.

 

[jonny-b]

Hello, Olefam. There are several reasons to why many americans change their oil at 3000Omiles. The first one is that it was common to do this in the sixties. The second one is that the folks who still do 3000 OCI don't know that the world and the technology have taken several steps forward in these years. They also don't know that synthetics have been invented and that it is superior to mineral oil. They do not posess any knowledge of mathematics and only see the quantity, but not the quality, thinking that more(in volume) is better. Somebody(Castrol and others) seems to have done their marketing lessons pretty well, teaching you that mineral oil is the best. However, the most important reason seems to be that the average american cannot read.

Ok, Olefam, that's all i had about the mystery of Americans doing 3000 mile OCI. What do you think?

 

[wavinwayne]

M Smith,

I got those pictures from another BITOGer, whos name slips my mind. He posted a thread about that oil a while back.

 

[82DMC12]

quote:

---

Hello, Olefam. There are several reasons to why many americans change their oil at 3000Omiles. The first one is that it was common to do this in the sixties. The second one is that the folks who still do 3000 OCI don't know that the world and the technology have taken several steps forward in these years. They also don't know that synthetics have been invented and that it is superior to mineral oil. They do not posess any knowledge of mathematics and only see the quantity, but not the quality, thinking that more(in volume) is better. Somebody(Castrol and others) seems to have done their marketing lessons pretty well, teaching you that mineral oil is the best. However, the most important reason seems to be that the average american cannot read. Ok, Olefam, that's all i had about the mystery of Americans doing 3000 mile OCI. What do you think?

---

Also, as I have stated in an earlier post this year, middle america is not ready to go past 3K on oil changes because most people have no idea how to maintain a car. If you told everyone that they can go 7K on an oil change, most of you have absolutely no idea how many people would drive for weeks with the oil pressure light on, with tires improperly inflated, or with transmission fluid not on the dipstick. It's stupid to assume that everyone out there should be going that long because if most people didn't change it at 3K (i'm not talking about BITOG'ers here), they wouldn't have any oil in their engine by 7K because they don't even check it anyway.

Andy

 

[wavinwayne]

FWIW, here are some pictures of the old 25k mile Mobil 1 can:

 

[olefam]

At the risk of having a lot of folks jump down my throat I'll confess the following: I have never done an oil analysis on any vehicle I've ever owned. And I don't think I will do so in the immediate future. Now, I know that may sound barbaric to many members here. But there it is. I feel like a better person for "coming out of the closet" at last.
Having said that, I might add that my reasoning for this reckless disregard, is that I have never had an engine fail on me due to improper lubrication. I started this thread because I think that if Mobil 1 started off beng able to handle 25,000 mile oci's, and it has gotten better, not worse, over the years,then it should easily be able to handle 10,000 mile oci's.
I struggle with the concept that every engine is different and needs different oci's. If that were the case, then shouldn't every engine manufacturer specify a specific oil such as Honda's private label, Ford's Motorcraft, GM's... Oh wait - they already do! So apparently there are a lot of us "living on the edge" by putting in products like Red Line, Mobil 1, Havoline, etc. In actuality, manufacturers only differentiate betwen "sever service" and "normal service." And these distinctions so heavily lean towards practically everybody driving in the "severe" mode that one might as well accept severe as the standard and be done with it.
I also have to believe that oil filters have become much better in the past 30 years and further help the cause of extended drain intervals. I frankly don't remember what percentage of what size particles old filters could handle. But it seems pretty amazing to me that new Purolators, among others, can capture up to 98% of the microscopic particulates that contaminate our oils. With this type of cleansing, the only issue still needing to be addressed is the additive package and how long it is good for. Once again, I suspect the newer oils have a better additive package than what was included 30 years ago. Again, this strengthens the case for longer drain intervals
Well, I've rambled on long enough about my thoughts. I'd enjoy reading what others who are more knowledgable than me think about all of this.
Glen