'24 Ineos Grenadier UOA

[303chknman]

Hey guys! New to tribology. I would appreciate your opinions on next steps as I am not super happy with my recent UOA. I feel the feedback was a little lackluster for me, a newbie. I'd like some clear direction:

'24 Ineos Grenadier

• BMW B58 3.0L turbo 6 cylinder pushing a vehicle close to 7,000lbs
• Manufacture Recommendation: 0w20 LL-17
• Changed from 0w20 to 5w40 at 1,000 miles
• Oil changed and tested at 5,000 miles (4k mile interval)
• Oil used: Motul 8100 X-Clean 5w40 LL04
• Location/Climate: Denver (-10 to 100 degrees F)
• 95% highway commuting miles, sporadic towing, some hard off-road days. I just spent 4 days and 300 miles driving steep, high elevation, off-road trails in low-range, for example.

Goal is to get this engine and turbo to last as long as possible. I am much less concerned about EPA shenanigans and MPGs than I am passing this vehicle on one day to my 3 year old son.

After receiving this feedback, my instinct is to try a 0/5w30. I'd like your input first.

Thanks in advance for your feedback and expertise!

 

[himemsys]

Oil changed and tested at 5,000 miles (4k mile interval)

So the engine had 5000 miles at the time this oil was sampled? It's too soon to know anything. You are seeing break-in material that will be flushed out after a few more oil changes. You can continue to test, but understand the metals will be elevated and slowly come down to normal levels after several oil changes.

 

[303chknman]

So the engine had 5000 miles at the time this oil was sampled? It's too soon to know anything. You are seeing break-in material that will be flushed out after a few more oil changes. You can continue to test, but understand the metals will be elevated and slowly come down to normal levels after several oil changes.

Thanks for the reply. Correct. The engine had 5000 total miles and 4000 on the oil. I’m okay with break in metals. Thoughts on the sheering? The oil apparently dropped from a 40 to around a 30 weight.

 

[edyvw]

Thanks for the reply. Correct. The engine had 5000 total miles and 4000 on the oil. I’m okay with break in metals. Thoughts on the sheering? The oil apparently dropped from a 40 to around a 30 weight.

Yes, it sheared.
I would run in that Mobil 1 ESP 0W30 or if you want approved LL04, Mobil 1 ESP 5W30.
If you want Motul, run X-Clean 0W30 EFE.

 

[303chknman]

Yes, it sheared.
I would run in that Mobil 1 ESP 0W30 or if you want approved LL04, Mobil 1 ESP 5W30.
If you want Motul, run X-Clean 0W30 EFE.

Thanks. That's in line with my instinct. It's good to have it validated.

 

[fantastic]

Nothing to worry about. Thanks for posting your Grenadier UOA.

 

[wemay]

I wonder if they would explain this reasoning if you sent them an email. In all my reading, XW-40 is hardly overly viscous for a B58.

 

[Impatient]

1) what does manufacturer recommend for severe duty? I would think warranty is key consideration at this early stage. But check both manufacturers: Ineos and BMW, in case there is a disparity…then it becomes a judgement call
2) does this have a (gas) particulate filter? My bad if this is a diesel engine. Then of course, it would be a dpf, not a gpf.
3) this thread covers a lot of same territory: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/oil-for-b58-ineos-grenadier.376660/. Someone in this thread implied manufacturer was OK with 40wt…but I was just doing a quick scan, not sure if that was just posters’ opinions or fact.
4) IMHO, a 40wt shearing to a high 30wt hardly seems a concern in a vehicle supposedly OK with 20wt. And a Euro 30wt is thicker than a US 30wt, let alone a 20wt. Hmmm. Just for my own learning, I might look at what some others’ euro 20wt’s sheared to…and what their HTHS ratings are. But a euro 0w30 sounds like a good compromise until you figure out what you are comfortable with. That said, use the euro oil with “correct” approvals. An A3B4 might not be good. Now, if dilution is the chief cause of the viscosity loss, well, that would be a concern; welcome to the party.
5) as stated by others, at 5k miles, it’s too soon to panic. But if you are going to try to find that Goldilocks “not too thick, not too thin, just right” oil, it makes sense to do some more testing, just don’t fret break-in metals…yet.

I haven’t looked at a ton of SpeedDynamics reports, but I wasn’t sure what they meant by 0.69 fuel. Field for Soot had a “%” but not the fuel dilution field. I assume they meant 0.69%, but maybe that’s the wrong assumption.

 

[FZ1]

Hey guys! New to tribology. I would appreciate your opinions on next steps as I am not super happy with my recent UOA. I feel the feedback was a little lackluster for me, a newbie. I'd like some clear direction:

'24 Ineos Grenadier

• BMW B58 3.0L turbo 6 cylinder pushing a vehicle close to 7,000lbs
• Manufacture Recommendation: 0w20 LL-17
• Changed from 0w20 to 5w40 at 1,000 miles
• Oil changed and tested at 5,000 miles (4k mile interval)
• Oil used: Motul 8100 X-Clean 5w40 LL04
• Location/Climate: Denver (-10 to 100 degrees F)
• 95% highway commuting miles, sporadic towing, some hard off-road days. I just spent 4 days and 300 miles driving steep, high elevation, off-road trails in low-range, for example.

Goal is to get this engine and turbo to last as long as possible. I am much less concerned about EPA shenanigans and MPGs than I am passing this vehicle on one day to my 3 year old son.

After receiving this feedback, my instinct is to try a 0/5w30. I'd like your input first.

Thanks in advance for your feedback and expertise!

View attachment 308476

0W-30 sounds better than 5W-40. Gets cold up there.

 

[303chknman]

1) what does manufacturer recommend for severe duty? I would think warranty is key consideration at this early stage. But check both manufacturers: Ineos and BMW, in case there is a disparity…then it becomes a judgement call
2) does this have a (gas) particulate filter? My bad if this is a diesel engine. Then of course, it would be a dpf, not a gpf.
3) this thread covers a lot of same territory: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/oil-for-b58-ineos-grenadier.376660/. Someone in this thread implied manufacturer was OK with 40wt…but I was just doing a quick scan, not sure if that was just posters’ opinions or fact.
4) IMHO, a 40wt shearing to a high 30wt hardly seems a concern in a vehicle supposedly OK with 20wt. And a Euro 30wt is thicker than a US 30wt, let alone a 20wt. Hmmm. Just for my own learning, I might look at what some others’ euro 20wt’s sheared to…and what their HTHS ratings are. But a euro 0w30 sounds like a good compromise until you figure out what you are comfortable with. That said, use the euro oil with “correct” approvals. An A3B4 might not be good. Now, if dilution is the chief cause of the viscosity loss, well, that would be a concern; welcome to the party.
5) as stated by others, at 5k miles, it’s too soon to panic. But if you are going to try to find that Goldilocks “not too thick, not too thin, just right” oil, it makes sense to do some more testing, just don’t fret break-in metals…yet.

I haven’t looked at a ton of SpeedDynamics reports, but I wasn’t sure what they meant by 0.69 fuel. Field for Soot had a “%” but not the fuel dilution field. I assume they meant 0.69%, but maybe that’s the wrong assumption.

Thanks for the thoughtful response!

1) LL17 oil is recommended by Ineos, which is generally 0w20 and is thought to be in use for US cafe ratings. However, BMW has approved the use of LL04 oil for the B58, and is the primary recommendation for this engine in other parts of the world.

2) No GPF (gasoline engine)

3 & 4) great thoughts. I think the euro 0w30 might be my next step. I'll be doing more research on other's experience with this engine and other oil types. However, many consider the 5w40 LL04 the premier oil for engine protection in my research.

5) Thanks for that encouragement! Any thoughts on what the goal for wear metals should be once beyond the break-in period?

0.69 is a percentage. This is explained in the report explanation that is not attached here.

 

[Impatient]

@303chknman,​

Where in general are you located (update your signature)? Where (in general) are you flogging this Ineos? I wouldn’t think 5w-40 would be appropriate in Alaskan winter. I wouldn’t be surprised if 5w-40 would be the call in Vegas, south Arizona, Furnace Creek, Ca etc mid-summer. I don’t track B58’s, so don’t know what is considered good in that world, but more generally, 2 ppm of iron / 1k miles is quite acceptable, maybe above average. You’ll want Aluminum lower, and for that matter, would be great if Copper were less as well. Would be nice to have 0 tin, lead, and chromium. Don’t expect these numbers soon. Maybe after 30k miles. The other things possibly important are TBN (acid), and oxidation, sulfation, nitration. But I don’t know what are good figures (well, TBN > 2.0, oxidation not too much higher than virgin…which is highly dependent on the chemical make-up of the particular oil…some of the best oils start out at high oxidation, but if UOA oxidation is 30 for an oil that starts out below 10, that’s bad.). I’ve run oil whose virgin oxidation was near 100.

I don’t like Blackstone lab’s approach to fuel dilution, but if you find any B58’s tested by Blackstone, they will include “universal averages.” That might guide you for wear metals.

 

[303chknman]

@303chknman,​

Where in general are you located (update your signature)? Where (in general) are you flogging this Ineos? I wouldn’t think 5w-40 would be appropriate in Alaskan winter. I wouldn’t be surprised if 5w-40 would be the call in Vegas, south Arizona, Furnace Creek, Ca etc mid-summer. I don’t track B58’s, so don’t know what is considered good in that world, but more generally, 2 ppm of iron / 1k miles is quite acceptable, maybe above average. You’ll want Aluminum lower, and for that matter, would be great if Copper were less as well. Would be nice to have 0 tin, lead, and chromium. Don’t expect these numbers soon. Maybe after 30k miles. The other things possibly important are TBN (acid), and oxidation, sulfation, nitration. But I don’t know what are good figures (well, TBN > 2.0, oxidation not too much higher than virgin…which is highly dependent on the chemical make-up of the particular oil…some of the best oils start out at high oxidation, but if used oil analysis oxidation is 30 for an oil that starts out below 10, that’s bad.). I’ve run oil whose virgin oxidation was near 100.

I don’t like Blackstone lab’s approach to fuel dilution, but if you find any B58’s tested by Blackstone, they will include “universal averages.” That might guide you for wear metals.

Signature updated Thanks!

Denver. We experience temps from -10 to 100 degrees F throughout the year. Last week I did some tough wheeling between 6-12 thousand feet of elevation and is typical for me when I am wheeling.

From a quick search, the Motul I used has a TBN of 8.0 mg KOH/g. My used oil analysis tested oxidation at 17.57. Thoughts?

I ordered a Blackstone kit just yesterday. I may try running both used oil analysis at the same time, with a heavy emphasis of value placed on SPEEDiagnostix with some added benefit of the Blackstone comparison to other B58s.

Per @wemay's recommendation, I sent an email out to SPEEDiagnostix and got a response back from Lake:

"I apologize for any confusion. Your test results indicated the Motul 5W-40 had sheared down to a 30 grade in service. As such, a 5W-30 or 0W-30 that meets the same manufacturer spec would be a good comparison. We don’t always see higher viscosity oils providing better protection. In your climate, the 0W-30 might be a better option."

What a great guy. Looking towards a great 0W30 now.

 

[fantastic]

I see this from the Power Stroke forums. They say "It'll shear down to a 30 grade anyways so might as well start with a 30 grade." That's how that commend reads to me but I beg to differ. Just because it shears down, eventually to equal a 30 grade, isn't good enough reason to switch to a lower grade. That 0w should still work in OP's climate. Anyways, Thanks for letting us know what you've decided.

 

[fantastic]

I wonder if they would explain this reasoning if you sent them an email. In all my reading, XW-40 is hardly overly viscous for a B58.

View attachment 308535

Then their first sentence..."wear rate is elevated". Do they not realize it's a break-in sample?

 

[FZ1]

Hey guys! New to tribology. I would appreciate your opinions on next steps as I am not super happy with my recent UOA. I feel the feedback was a little lackluster for me, a newbie. I'd like some clear direction:

'24 Ineos Grenadier

• BMW B58 3.0L turbo 6 cylinder pushing a vehicle close to 7,000lbs
• Manufacture Recommendation: 0w20 LL-17
• Changed from 0w20 to 5w40 at 1,000 miles
• Oil changed and tested at 5,000 miles (4k mile interval)
• Oil used: Motul 8100 X-Clean 5w40 LL04
• Location/Climate: Denver (-10 to 100 degrees F)
• 95% highway commuting miles, sporadic towing, some hard off-road days. I just spent 4 days and 300 miles driving steep, high elevation, off-road trails in low-range, for example.

Goal is to get this engine and turbo to last as long as possible. I am much less concerned about EPA shenanigans and MPGs than I am passing this vehicle on one day to my 3 year old son.

After receiving this feedback, my instinct is to try a 0/5w30. I'd like your input first.

Thanks in advance for your feedback and expertise!

View attachment 308476

The Footer on the report seems incorrect. 11.77 is Not below 30 grade. No need for a "thick oil" in Denver cold.