24 ev's test in cold weather till they died one stood out.

[97prizm]

Evey year in Norway they hold the "Prix" or a real world cold weather test for electric vehicles. This year had 24 contenders to see how close to their real world claims stacked up.
Cold weather test Norway
The best ever was the BMW IX3 in 2021 that only lost 4% of its claimed range. BMW and Audi traditionally have tested higher in the past. What's surprising is the new facelifted Tesla was 21 out of 24 entrants. I'm not sure how the WLTP vs EPA tests vary but I call shenanigans when you post the highest driving range and then end up towards the bottom of the driving range. I'm wondering if we'll ever see a "dieselgate " type of deal with electric vehicles trying to fudge their ranges?

 

[UncleDave]

Evey year in Norway they hold the "Prix" or a real world cold weather test for electric vehicles. This year had 24 contenders to see how close to their real world claims stacked up.
Cold weather test Norway
The best ever was the BMW IX3 in 2021 that only lost 4% of its claimed range. BMW and Audi traditionally have tested higher in the past. What's surprising is the new facelifted Tesla was 21 out of 24 entrants. I'm not sure how the WLTP vs EPA tests vary but I call shenanigans when you post the highest driving range and then end up towards the bottom of the driving range. I'm wondering if we'll ever see a "dieselgate " type of deal with electric vehicles trying to fudge their ranges?

Yet it was tied for 1st place for actual mileage achieved.

The rating agencies set the test standards for estimated range not the manufacturers.

 

[Ws6]

Evey year in Norway they hold the "Prix" or a real world cold weather test for electric vehicles. This year had 24 contenders to see how close to their real world claims stacked up.
Cold weather test Norway
The best ever was the BMW IX3 in 2021 that only lost 4% of its claimed range. BMW and Audi traditionally have tested higher in the past. What's surprising is the new facelifted Tesla was 21 out of 24 entrants. I'm not sure how the WLTP vs EPA tests vary but I call shenanigans when you post the highest driving range and then end up towards the bottom of the driving range. I'm wondering if we'll ever see a "dieselgate " type of deal with electric vehicles trying to fudge their ranges?

This is normal for Tesla.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

There is no EPA mandated range, no CAFE target to meet, and no emissions to cheat, so there won't be any type of dieselgate scandal with electric

 

[daves87rs]

Cheaper batteries?

 

[Torrid]

I wouldn't be surprised to learn it has something to do with temperature management. I think Tesla tries to get to maximum power output with temperature and maintain it and I don't think that is best for efficiency.

 

[97prizm]

Apparently the group wasn't impressed with Teslas fit and finish either. They seem to lag other companies in that regard for a long time. When you're the only major player it's not a huge deal but now with others coming online or are here in consistent sales we'll see what happens.

 

[SC Maintenance]

There is no EPA mandated range, no CAFE target to meet, and no emissions to cheat, so there won't be any type of dieselgate scandal with electric

This is not quite accurate. The EPA range / energy use etc gets fed into the calculation for vehicle CAFE numbers to which the maker can sell or use the offset credits themselves. So if they are "cheating" there could be equally harsh civil penalties.

However I believe the test is on a dyno - so I am not sure exactly if they would be able to cheat as specifically as VW did in their dieselgate case. I am also pretty sure the software is so locked down it would be very difficult for anyone to find. I wouldn't be surprised if 100% of them are cheating somehow. If your not cheating your not racing.

 

[UncleDave]

They'd all do better in the cold if the manufacturers put cobalt, or more cobalt in the batteries.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Not sure what those numbers mean. Model 3 RWD epa range is 363 miles.

 

[alarmguy]

Not sure what those numbers mean. Model 3 RWD epa range is 363 miles.

The WLTP range of the new refreshed Tesla Model 3 is 436 miles however it only traveled 330 miles before dying so that article shows it fell short by 24% = which is bottom of the barrel range for almost every car tested except 4
Dont take my post as a negative just explaining the Norway test, since Tesla is a world wide car it might make a difference should you be an investor if buyers overseas take this as a negative or not. I dont think it matters here if the car matches the EPA

EPA is a USA stat and that isnt used in Norway most go by WLTP
https://www.lifewire.com/ev-ranges-explained-5202261

 

[JeffKeryk]

The WLTP range of the new refreshed Tesla Model 3 is 436 miles however it only traveled 330 miles before dying so that article shows it fell short by 24% = which is bottom of the barrel range for almost every car tested except 4
Dont take my post as a negative just explaining the Norway test, since Tesla is a world wide car it might make a difference should you be an investor if buyers overseas take this as a negative or not. I dont think it matters here if the car matches the EPA

EPA is a USA stat and that isnt used in Norway most go by WLTP
https://www.lifewire.com/ev-ranges-explained-5202261

I wonder why the WLTP number is so far off, especially if it is considered more accurate? Obviously the EPA number is a better metric, at least in the Model 3 RWD.
Do you know who actually does the testing? How did they come up with that number? Did Tesla pull it outta ...

As always, the devil is in the details.

 

[Torrid]

I wonder why the WLTP number is so far off, especially if it is considered more accurate? Obviously the EPA number is a better metric, at least in the Model 3 RWD.
Do you know who actually does the testing? How did they come up with that number? Did Tesla pull it outta ...

As always, the devil is in the details.

They just have a different test method than the EPA. EPA's calculation changed a couple of years ago and they've made the guidelines more strict. Now almost all vehicles per the new EPA standard get or slightly beat the EPA number.

 

[alarmguy]

I wonder why the WLTP number is so far off, especially if it is considered more accurate? Obviously the EPA number is a better metric, at least in the Model 3 RWD.
Do you know who actually does the testing? How did they come up with that number? Did Tesla pull it outta ...

As always, the devil is in the details.

I know nothing about the WLTP but its all available on the internet since that is what Europe uses just like we use our EPA

 

[alarmguy]

They just have a different test method than the EPA. EPA's calculation changed a couple of years ago and they've made the guidelines more strict. Now almost all vehicles per the new EPA standard get or slightly beat the EPA number.

Its kind of whacky though. Some of the cars on that list equal EPA numbers ex. Polestar 3 actually is in the same area of the EPA and WLTP numbers
The Ioniq 5 doesnt quite make it to the WLTP number yet beats the EPA number.

I only compared the two above, not interested enough but it was easy to pick out those two of 24 cars. Also the different option packages etc certainly makes things difficult to compare

I dont know why WLTP shows a Model 3 with 436 miles of range and gets 330 very strange the contrast in those numbers clearly something seems whacky. The story isnt about the EPA vs WLTP though.

It's just a WLTP rating of 24 EVs and for some weird reason (that I think must have an explanation) it puts Tesla at the bottom of the list, yet its range is very respectable. It's just the WLTP rating makes it obnoxiously high to begin with. Which makes me wonder, will that bother people in Norway (and the EU) or do they know better that something is wrong with their rating system giving Tesla a 436?

 

[Torrid]

Its kind of whacky though. Some of the cars on that list equal EPA numbers ex. Polestar 3 actually is in the same area of the EPA and WLTP numbers
The Ioniq 5 doesnt quite make it to the WLTP number yet beats the EPA number.

I only compared the two above, not interested enough but it was easy to pick out those two of 24 cars. Also the different option packages etc certainly makes things difficult to compare

I dont know why WLTP shows a Model 3 with 436 miles of range and gets 330 very strange the contrast in those numbers clearly something seems whacky. The story isnt about the EPA vs WLTP though.

It's just a WLTP rating of 24 EVs and for some weird reason (that I think must have an explanation) it puts Tesla at the bottom of the list, yet its range is very respectable. It's just the WLTP rating makes it obnoxiously high to begin with. Which makes me wonder, will that bother people in Norway (and the EU) or do they know better that something is wrong with their rating system giving Tesla a 436?

I really wish I had an answer. It doesn't make sense.

 

[alarmguy]

I really wish I had an answer. It doesn't make sense.

I know the answer. *LOL* They both are government agencies. That should explain everything.

 

[97prizm]

Its kind of whacky though. Some of the cars on that list equal EPA numbers ex. Polestar 3 actually is in the same area of the EPA and WLTP numbers
The Ioniq 5 doesnt quite make it to the WLTP number yet beats the EPA number.

I only compared the two above, not interested enough but it was easy to pick out those two of 24 cars. Also the different option packages etc certainly makes things difficult to compare

I dont know why WLTP shows a Model 3 with 436 miles of range and gets 330 very strange the contrast in those numbers clearly something seems whacky. The story isnt about the EPA vs WLTP though.

It's just a WLTP rating of 24 EVs and for some weird reason (that I think must have an explanation) it puts Tesla at the bottom of the list, yet its range is very respectable. It's just the WLTP rating makes it obnoxiously high to begin with. Which makes me wonder, will that bother people in Norway (and the EU) or do they know better that something is wrong with their rating system giving Tesla a 436?

Apparently inside ev's did a write up on the variations on testing methods of the epa vs wltp.
Inside Ev's

 

[alarmguy]

Apparently inside ev's did a write up on the variations on testing methods of the epa vs wltp.
Inside Ev's

This is great, read quickly through it and will again this morning, if not by Tuesday. I have a few comments to make (no surprise there) but I want to go through it again. I think significant enough that the testing procedure should be given to buyers of electric vehicles. If range is important to them, they would be able to match up how these vehicles are tested because for me personally I see many things where many people would not get the range compared to how it is tested.

I’m switching home insurance companies today and have an appointment that I have to leave for around 10:30 and then at 1 o’clock appointment to get microwaved (radiation treatment) almost a busy day for a retired person LOL