Wow, yeah that's pretty tough to beat. Compared to the price I was paying for Schaeffer's, the ESP is dirt cheap.I am using 2017 vintage Chevron/Havoline ProDS that I bought for $7.17 a jug on closeout, I bought 29 jugs. So my scale is calibrated a little different
I still have about 15 jugs left after 6 years. I just shake it up real good before I pour it in.
Is that Havoline full synthetic? If so, that's incredible. I have to run full synthetic in the Subaru.
Yep it is the full synthetic! I'm going to be sad when I run out and have to pay current prices at Wallyworld. Oh well, it's been a good run.Wow, yeah that's pretty tough to beat. Compared to the price I was paying for Schaeffer's, the ESP is dirt cheap.
Well sorry to sadden you lol but that's why I did the apples to apples comparison of the filters. Same exact OCI and oil. Two vastly different oil filters. I suspect you are correct. As I said before, the particle count numbers will tell the story. I have a stockpile of Fram Ultras, Titaniums and two Amsoil oil filters on the shelf at the ready.
I was just real curious about the K&P filter as I've been running one on my modded Harley for years now. I will be doing the same comparison with the Harley. Next oil change it gets an Amsoil oil filter in place of the K&P. I love this stuff! I find it fascinating even though it costs me more money.
I also run a much larger FS10575 (Titanium part number) on my Subaru as I have the Baxter Performance anti-drainback adapter installed. I have 20k on the vehicle and I obviously I have zero regard for my factory warranty, running a rev hang delete tune, larger oil filters and non factory approved, non API, Euro 0W-30 oil.
I am my own warranty station. My vehicle will never see a stealership unless there is a recall. I do all my own maintenance and repairs, even down to tire rotations.
I haven’t plugged your numbers into the statistical software I use for work, but at a glance I’m willing to say that other than the moly/titanium and viscosity measurements, there is no statistically significant difference in your results. I can say I would like the idea of a reusable filter, but in your use case I highly doubt there’s any value proposition, and the lower efficiency is a non-starter (for me).Well sorry to sadden you lol but that's why I did the apples to apples comparison of the filters. Same exact OCI and oil. Two vastly different oil filters. I suspect you are correct. As I said before, the particle count numbers will tell the story. I have a stockpile of Fram Ultras, Titaniums and two Amsoil oil filters on the shelf at the ready.
What plan are you referring to? Based on my experience with Stealerships over the last 25 years, I think I am doing my car a big favor by not going to one. I do think there is a greater benefit to my car in running a larger oil filter. Other than the minor hit to my wallet, I do think I'm doing my car a favor by the short OCIs and running the ESP 0W-30. Other than the reusable oil filter, what do you mean? I agree with you, the data will most likely prove the 20 micron absolute rated Fram is superior at filtering, and if that is the case, my K&P will most likely become a desk ornament in my office....I haven’t plugged your numbers into the statistical software I use for work, but at a glance I’m willing to say that other than the moly/titanium and viscosity measurements, there is no statistically significant difference in your results. I can say I would like the idea of a reusable filter, but in your use case I highly doubt there’s any value proposition, and the lower efficiency is a non-starter (for me).
I really do wish you the best of luck, because obviously I’ve got a soft spot for the Pleiades. But from 15+ years and 600k+ of experience, I don’t think you’re doing your car or your wallet any favors with the plan you’re on, but if you feel it’s what you need to do, so be it.
Oh I’m definitely no fan of dealers. I’m completely on board with DIY care for your Subaru. But ESP is a top-tier oil, and I think you’re selling yourself short with the ~2.8k OCIs. I’m down with the filter adapter, but I’d run the Fram Endurance 10575 (which is what I run on my EcoBoost). If it were mine (and I respect your choice if you’re not good with this) but finish this OCI wherever you’re at. If it’s still in the same range as all your others, you’re at a point of stasis.What plan are you referring to? Based on my experience with Stealerships over the last 25 years, I think I am doing my car a big favor by not going to one. I do think there is a greater benefit to my car in running a larger oil filter. Other than the minor hit to my wallet, I do think I'm doing my car a favor by the short OCIs and running the ESP 0W-30. Other than the reusable oil filter, what do you mean? I agree with you, the data will most likely prove the 20 micron absolute rated Fram is superior at filtering, and if that is the case, my K&P will most likely become a desk ornament in my office....
Most likely longer. Blackstone is notoriously slow. Usually takes 3-4 weeks, sometimes longer to get back results. Much longer than any other lab that I've seen. I will post the comparison results in a new thread once I get the particle count results from Blackstone. Looking forward to it.
I'm mainly using Blackstone for the particle count since OAI/Horizon won't do them on used engine oil. I left Blackstone after 15 years and switched to OAI due to Blackstone's woefully inaccurate fuel dilution numbers. I've seen 4 times more fuel dilution with Horizon on the same sample submitted both to Horizon and Blackstone. Difference between GC and Flashpoint testing methods of course....Oh I’m definitely no fan of dealers. I’m completely on board with DIY care for your Subaru. But ESP is a top-tier oil, and I think you’re selling yourself short with the ~2.8k OCIs. I’m down with the filter adapter, but I’d run the Fram Endurance 10575 (which is what I run on my EcoBoost). If it were mine (and I respect your choice if you’re not good with this) but finish this OCI wherever you’re at. If it’s still in the same range as all your others, you’re at a point of stasis.
Next OCI, use your ESP stash, grab the Endurance 10575, and go at least 5-6k on your next sample. Iron tracks with mileage, but it’s a known fact that Mobil 1 “appears” to show more iron in UOAs than some oils, but if your trend is all Mobil 1, that’s “your” trend. Your trends are not comparable to others directly, so don’t necessarily bother with B-S’s numbers. A few PPM is not the end of the world… as long as it’s consistent.
In the GDI world, fuel >5% or dropping out of grade are valid condemnation points. That’s what I would use if you like the ESP. I’d personally use Polaris or WearCheck if you’re going to use fuel % as a condemnation, since B-S’s number is an estimate. But to know for sure where the “safe” point is for ESP, your engine, and your driving habits, you’ll need to stretch the OCI until you bang right up against the condemnation points or just over.
Then you can know the mileage point where your oil choice and your engine/driving combo intersect and minimize your cost relative to protection.
I don't think you can compare the micron rating on these steel mesh filters with traditional filters, since they're basically just a square mesh grid. They probably do a good job of filtering above 35 microns, but I'd expect the efficiency to drop to almost zero pretty quickly as particles get smaller than that. A traditional 35 micron filter might still be around 20% efficient at 10 microns, so a particle that size should be filtered within about 5 passes through the filter (unless it gets pulverized by the engine). The steel mesh filter may have nearly 0% efficiency for those smaller particles.
The particle count will be telling on the lower efficiency. I'm personally a fan of the wire backed synthetic media like the OG Ultra and now Endurance, but, a washable oil filter would reduce trips to the store for me. Given my large oil stash, that definitely has some value for me because I've already got the oil at home. Also the fact that we are pretty far out from town now, to go to Walmart or a parts store is not an insignificant time investment. It's gonna be 60-90 minutes if the only purpose is to grab a filter. The time demands just never stop when you have a family.I haven’t plugged your numbers into the statistical software I use for work, but at a glance I’m willing to say that other than the moly/titanium and viscosity measurements, there is no statistically significant difference in your results. I can say I would like the idea of a reusable filter, but in your use case I highly doubt there’s any value proposition, and the lower efficiency is a non-starter (for me).
I really do wish you the best of luck, because obviously I’ve got a soft spot for the Pleiades. But from 15+ years and 600k+ of experience, I don’t think you’re doing your car or your wallet any favors with the plan you’re on, but if you feel it’s what you need to do, so be it.
So you don't think there will be any useful value doing the particle counts of the two different filters from the same oil and same OCI? At first I was told on here that low wear metals do not correlate with proper filter efficiency and that particle counts would be a good indicator of filtering efficiency and comparing the two filters. Now I need proper efficiency testing?
I get it to some degree but it is funny. I've spent enough money with my oil experiments.I didn't say there was no value I said it's not a substitute. But it's why knowing the efficiencies is valuable, and when they are reported as a proper and standardized value then you can make comparisons as well as have a much more complete understanding of how the filter operates.So you don't think there will be any useful value doing the particle counts of the two different filters from the same oil and same OCI? At first I was told on here that low wear metals do not correlate with proper filter efficiency and that particle counts would be a good indicator of filtering efficiency and comparing the two filters. Now I need proper efficiency testing?
I'm not paying the big money for the "proper efficiency testing".
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