'21 VW GLI - VW 0w20 UOA - 3000 miles / 4700 kms

Just saw this, I wasn't online for a while.

I'm not the only one using 0w20 on a track, most modern hothatches come with 0w20 from the factory (like the Civic Type-R), and people drive the **** out of them at track with much more power output than my GLI. At 260F, oil temps should be fine. I've seen worse temps in my previous Hondas' (300+ F) and oil pressures were all good. EA888 Gen 3 almost takes 6 qt of oil (MUCH more than typical 4 banger), so the chances when it comes to oil starvation is pretty low, especially for a road legal car.

Not saying 0w20 is ideal or people should use it at track, but it is just fine. I understand there will be more wear, but I should also see worse results in UOA which is not the case here.

Using anything other than 0w20 for a daily driver though (like your Atlas, for instance), it is completely unnecessary. This UOA proves that.
Nope. ANyone bringing 0W20 to my garage to use it in any of my Euro cars can take a hike.
There is just not enough margin there. Also, UOA that you run with Blackstone etc. won't give you a bulletproof picture.

VW has a very tight margin when it comes to cooling, regardless of 6qt. Here at HPR all VWs are running with modified cooling systems. They simply cannot handle this altitude (still better then Subarus and similar cars). 260f means you are already close to timing to be dialed back.
 
Nope. ANyone bringing 0W20 to my garage to use it in any of my Euro cars can take a hike.
There is just not enough margin there. Also, UOA that you run with Blackstone etc. won't give you a bulletproof picture.

VW has a very tight margin when it comes to cooling, regardless of 6qt. Here at HPR all VWs are running with modified cooling systems. They simply cannot handle this altitude (still better then Subarus and similar cars). 260f means you are already close to timing to be dialed back.

UOA won't give me a bulletproof picture, but at least there is something as a reference other than saying "I don't use 0w20 because I do not like it".

260F is completely fine and it won't retard the timing and there was no loss of power at those temps except one occasion where it popped EPC light at much lower degrees. Many Golf R owners have the same oil temp range at the track, and they use 502-504. In fact ALL road legal cars on track will see those temps regardless of viscosity. I've seen much worse, but for most track junkies the dangerous territory starts around 270-275F. I'm quite impressed as I was expecting much worse temps with 0w20.

Don't take my word, feel free to ask people tracking their cars here, I hope they will also chime in and share their thoughts. Not to mention 260F was the PEAK number, it was around 240-250F for the most part, which is perfectly normal and common temp range for track.

Been tracking my cars more than a decade, never blew an engine (because I never owned a Subaru lol).

Again, my point is not to convince people to use 0w20 on track, but to show it is good for daily driving even autocrossing or if you push it hard.
 
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UOA won't give me a bulletproof picture, but at least there is something as a reference other than saying "I don't use 0w20 because I do not like it".

260F is completely fine and it won't retard the timing and there was no loss of power at those temps except one occasion where it popped EPC light at much lower degrees. Many Golf R owners have the same oil temp range at the track, and they use 502-504. In fact ALL road legal cars on track will see those temps regardless of viscosity. I've seen much worse, but for most track junkies the dangerous territory starts around 270-275F. I'm quite impressed as I was expecting much worse temps with 0w20.

Been tracking my cars more than a decade, never blew an engine (because I never owned a Subaru lol).

Again, my point is not to convince people to use 0w20 on track, but to show it is good for daily driving even autocrossing or if you push it hard.
I have done numerous UOA, I know they can be useful.
You are running your car at a very low altitude. 260 means 280 here where I am, and more.
The margin is tight, and while there is a performance benefit of running 0W20, IMO it is not worth it. Not to mention that EA888 is designed to use primarily oils above 3.5cp.
 
Get a high capacity baffled aluminum oil pan. Might add about a quart in capacity, aluminum surface area has possible heatsinking abilities.... both might help with average temps and possibly reduce peak temps a little.

I am pretty sure the vehicle won't hurt itself with stock tunes and minimal to no power mods. Stock gets boring hint hint.

Track time.... wonder what the warranty states and what longer term data is logged is something does break. How much data can the dealer or VW pull and will they void that if the engine is raced??? So, if there is a failure, that is for you to research if you're under warranty and covered, or using the vehicle not as intended and voided the warranty.

Temps? what's the visc of a 0w20 at 260F? when compared to a 5w30 or 5w40? Most are trying to prevent your engine from grinding up and something you WON'T see in the UOA.

The metal you see in the UOA has been filtered. The wear has been captured by the oil filter.

Get a magnetic drainplug and monitor build up with each interval.

I'd go thicker if you have track habits. Or, do a better job of controlling oil temps. I could care less what some think as normal and acceptable oil temps. Too many rebuild/repair engines often.
 
I have done numerous UOA, I know they can be useful.
You are running your car at a very low altitude. 260 means 280 here where I am, and more.
The margin is tight, and while there is a performance benefit of running 0W20, IMO it is not worth it. Not to mention that EA888 is designed to use primarily oils above 3.5cp.

I agree from the performance benefit standpoint, it is not worth it. My intention was more of an experiment and learning the cars limits, again this is not a competitive racing, just an open lapping session.

However, I'm sure the car will see same temp range even if I switch to 5w40, the temps aren't the issue here.

Get a high capacity baffled aluminum oil pan. Might add about a quart in capacity, aluminum surface area has possible heatsinking abilities.... both might help with average temps and possibly reduce peak temps a little.

I am pretty sure the vehicle won't hurt itself with stock tunes and minimal to no power mods. Stock gets boring hint hint.

Track time.... wonder what the warranty states and what longer term data is logged is something does break. How much data can the dealer or VW pull and will they void that if the engine is raced??? So, if there is a failure, that is for you to research if you're under warranty and covered, or using the vehicle not as intended and voided the warranty.

Temps? what's the visc of a 0w20 at 260F? when compared to a 5w30 or 5w40? Most are trying to prevent your engine from grinding up and something you WON'T see in the UOA.

The metal you see in the UOA has been filtered. The wear has been captured by the oil filter.

Get a magnetic drainplug and monitor build up with each interval.

I'd go thicker if you have track habits. Or, do a better job of controlling oil temps. I could care less what some think as normal and acceptable oil temps. Too many rebuild/repair engines often.

How can you not see wear metals in UOA if the engine is grinding up? Oil filter cannot filter small particles, but I checked the filter and there was no visible wear metals - I do not have a picture unfortunately.

UOA won't show everything, but it'll show most wear metals that's what I take it as a reference. Is it scientific? Probably not, but still better than nothing.

Do you know any oil company that shares the data at 260F regardless of the viscosity? I do not know one unfortunately, therefore it is impossible to know.

I will switch to 5w30 or 5w40 for this season especially if I tune it, but with 0w20, my intention was to see the UOA results after few track sessions with pretty short OCI.

Have no idea about the warranty aspect, but if you are taking it to track, you are always taking the risk, anything can happen. "Technically" speaking, my warranty is still valid as there is no ill effect after the track sessions, and I'm still using the 0w20 green juice they force people to use to save 0.3 MPG.
 
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How can you not see wear metals in UOA if the engine is grinding up? Oil filter cannot filter small particles, but I checked the filter and there was no visible wear metals - I do not have a picture unfortunately.

UOA won't show everything, but it'll show most wear metals that's what I take it as a reference. Is it scientific? Probably not, but still better than nothing.
Because a spectrographic analysis machine measures solutions, not particles. In fact the inlet is filtered against particles to prevent the plasma from destablizing. The particle size that's excluded from measurement is well below the visible range.

Unless you are performing an acid digestion then you won't know about this type of damage. I saw it all the time when I performed analysis in colllege. No matter what the analysis will not show "most wear metals", if that is your objective. They must be in solution.
 
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260 is fine in these cars, I've seen max 272 on a track day in the 80s in my wagon, low elevation here on the east coast (VIR). The UOA is fine but only really good to show viscosity, fuel (if they analyze for it), and trends if you do these each change. Not sure if you've seen my timing chain post but you can see a slight up-tick in aluminum that Blackstone noted but I had visible aluminum glitter in my oil filter from the tensioner being wedged between the block/cover. Even at 272 for 24 minute session I never felt any power drop/cuts and my car ran consistent times lap after lap. The real concern is that the elevated oil temp is increasing your coolant temp due to the oil/coolant heat exchanger these VWs use and that at a point will be an issue. The timing correction issue would be more related to intake air temps. If I had a GLI/GTI that called for 508/0W20 I would run a 40W 502 for the track but I know folks that have tracked with the 0W20 as well.
 
I agree from the performance benefit standpoint, it is not worth it. My intention was more of an experiment and learning the cars limits, again this is not a competitive racing, just an open lapping session.

However, I'm sure the car will see same temp range even if I switch to 5w40, the temps aren't the issue here.



How can you not see wear metals in UOA if the engine is grinding up? Oil filter cannot filter small particles, but I checked the filter and there was no visible wear metals - I do not have a picture unfortunately.

UOA won't show everything, but it'll show most wear metals that's what I take it as a reference. Is it scientific? Probably not, but still better than nothing.

Do you know any oil company that shares the data at 260F regardless of the viscosity? I do not know one unfortunately, therefore it is impossible to know.

I will switch to 5w30 or 5w40 for this season especially if I tune it, but with 0w20, my intention was to see the UOA results after few track sessions with pretty short OCI.

Have no idea about the warranty aspect, but if you are taking it to track, you are always taking the risk, anything can happen. "Technically" speaking, my warranty is still valid as there is no ill effect after the track sessions, and I'm still using the 0w20 green juice they force people to use to save 0.3 MPG.
You can’t see grinding metals in UOA.
Basically anything visible to naked eye won’t show up.
 
260 is fine in these cars, I've seen max 272 on a track day in the 80s in my wagon, low elevation here on the east coast (VIR). The UOA is fine but only really good to show viscosity, fuel (if they analyze for it), and trends if you do these each change. Not sure if you've seen my timing chain post but you can see a slight up-tick in aluminum that Blackstone noted but I had visible aluminum glitter in my oil filter from the tensioner being wedged between the block/cover. Even at 272 for 24 minute session I never felt any power drop/cuts and my car ran consistent times lap after lap. The real concern is that the elevated oil temp is increasing your coolant temp due to the oil/coolant heat exchanger these VWs use and that at a point will be an issue. The timing correction issue would be more related to intake air temps. If I had a GLI/GTI that called for 508/0W20 I would run a 40W 502 for the track but I know folks that have tracked with the 0W20 as well.
At 272 you definitely have timing pulled back, but it is hard to feel that at track, especially when one has hp like you.
I have never felt that in BMW too, but it does start to pull back timing around 270f.
 
At 272 you definitely have timing pulled back, but it is hard to feel that at track, especially when one has hp like you.
I have never felt that in BMW too, but it does start to pull back timing around 270f.
The timing pull thing....we have some folks (MK7 folks) actually trying to see that wtih high-detail logs during track sessions to see it. Mainly it's intake air temp and coolant temp is the going thinking...that the ECU has no connection with oil temp and timing advance.
 
260 is fine in these cars, I've seen max 272 on a track day in the 80s in my wagon, low elevation here on the east coast (VIR). The UOA is fine but only really good to show viscosity, fuel (if they analyze for it), and trends if you do these each change. Not sure if you've seen my timing chain post but you can see a slight up-tick in aluminum that Blackstone noted but I had visible aluminum glitter in my oil filter from the tensioner being wedged between the block/cover. Even at 272 for 24 minute session I never felt any power drop/cuts and my car ran consistent times lap after lap. The real concern is that the elevated oil temp is increasing your coolant temp due to the oil/coolant heat exchanger these VWs use and that at a point will be an issue. The timing correction issue would be more related to intake air temps. If I had a GLI/GTI that called for 508/0W20 I would run a 40W 502 for the track but I know folks that have tracked with the 0W20 as well.

I'll make the switch, just hesitating to do it now as I do not want to void the warranty.

Once I tune the ECU and TCU, I'll switch to Pennzoil Euro 5w40 (A40, 502.00)
The timing pull thing....we have some folks (MK7 folks) actually trying to see that wtih high-detail logs during track sessions to see it. Mainly it's intake air temp and coolant temp is the going thinking...that the ECU has no connection with oil temp and timing advance.
I am not a VW guru, but I tuned a lot of Hondas and you can retard the timing based on IAT as well, but timing has nothing to do with the oil temp, apparently VW has a similar algorithm.
 
I'll make the switch, just hesitating to do it now as I do not want to void the warranty.

Once I tune the ECU and TCU, I'll switch to Pennzoil Euro 5w40 (A40, 502.00)

I am not a VW guru, but I tuned a lot of Hondas and you can retard the timing based on IAT as well, but timing has nothing to do with the oil temp, apparently VW has a similar algorithm.
Tracking your car already impacts your warranty man - nobody is going to know you are running whatever oil, the online warranty scare thing is out of hand. And yes, the timing thing seems to be bunk based on logs I've seen...just IAT really but I think it's more of a pairing so to say...if you are 280 oil yoru coolant is hot as well and all of it is hot so you will be down on power basically. My car was hitting the same Vmax each lap at that temp and at lower temps.
 
And again, no warranty is predicated on grade. At least none that I’ve ever seen. A warranty is predicated on engine damage, which will not happen in this case. No engine is harmed by an oil of a somewhat higher grade. It helps to protect the engine, not the other way around.
 
And again, no warranty is predicated on grade. At least none that I’ve ever seen. A warranty is predicated on engine damage, which will not happen in this case. No engine is harmed by an oil of a somewhat higher grade. It helps to protect the engine, not the other way around.
As long as you have service records there is no reason you should have drama w/r to the lubrication question if anything catastrophic happened which is so unlikely anyway. I bet the manual says you can top off with a 30W anyway.
 
Nope. ANyone bringing 0W20 to my garage to use it in any of my Euro cars can take a hike.
There is just not enough margin there. Also, UOA that you run with Blackstone etc. won't give you a bulletproof picture.

VW has a very tight margin when it comes to cooling, regardless of 6qt. Here at HPR all VWs are running with modified cooling systems. They simply cannot handle this altitude (still better then Subarus and similar cars). 260f means you are already close to timing to be dialed back.
So what do you suggest is a better oil for a VW that calls for 508 0w20 in a 2.0 GLI?
504/507 5w30?
502 5w40?
I would be most interested in engine longevity, not about "tracking" the car? I realize the engine was NOT designed with 0w20 508 oil in mind.
 
So what do you suggest is a better oil for a VW that calls for 508 0w20 in a 2.0 GLI?
504/507 5w30?
502 5w40?
I would be most interested in engine longevity, not about "tracking" the car? I realize the engine was NOT designed with 0w20 508 oil in mind.
Many folks are running the older 502/xW40 in their GTIs calling for 508 without issue but 504s will work just fine too, either one.
 
So what do you suggest is a better oil for a VW that calls for 508 0w20 in a 2.0 GLI?
504/507 5w30?
502 5w40?
I would be most interested in engine longevity, not about "tracking" the car? I realize the engine was NOT designed with 0w20 508 oil in mind.
VW504.00/507.00.

VW511.00 is XW40 version of VW504.00.00/507.00
 
0w20 lol. 2019 GLI here
 

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I am scared where oil pressure is at 260 with that oil, especially when pulling high G’s during cornering.
I doubt this would be an issue with the modern ones, simply because they are variable output oil pumps. I'm pretty sure there is a lot of overhead in them. It's fun on my parents Grand Cherokee 3.6L, it actually displays oil pressure and it holds rock steady when running at around 35psi until you hit a certain RPM/throttle loading and then it jumps straight up to I think 75-80 and holds it there regardless of RPM variation. I think most modern engines with computer controlled oil pumps operate in a similar manner- so I'd expect oil pressure to stay pretty consistent regardless of temperature, up to a point at least.
 
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