21 5.7 Hemi; Valvoline EP 5w-20 3k mi

[ramcar]

I keep getting high iron when i change the oil in the spring to get the winter oil out. It makes me wonder if how im using the truck in the winter is creating condensation in the engine and this is just "rust" as the truck doesn't really get warmed up. I live in Minnesota, its cold. In the winter i dont drive it much, and when i do its a short trip 7.5 each way to get my kid at his school. In the summer the truck sees most of its mileage towing a 6klb travel trailer. I change the oil twice a year, in the spring i get high iron, and in the fall after towing all summer give me normal iron levels.

Any thoughts on this reasoning?

 

[buster]

Interesting, I don't know. Could be a corrosive type wear but I doubt that due to corrosion inhibitors. Plus Valvoline oils were ahead of the game on dealing with water/emulsification in oil.

 

[RDY4WAR]

You would need ferrous spectroscopy to determine abrasive iron from rust. I would bet it's rust though. API's standards for rust prevention are quite weak, as are most API standards. I'd recommend an oil with much stricter standards on rust and probably go up a grade. HPL PCMO Premium Plus 0W-30 would be a good pick. The common and quick test method for rust is 4 hours in freshwater. HPL, by comparison, does 24 hours in saltwater.

 

[buster]

Try HPL or another brand.

What’s an engine-killing contaminant?​

In this case, water. Moisture can build up in the engine if it’s not neutralized by a high-quality motor oil, causing higher friction from metal-on-metal contact, which could lead to catastrophic engine failure. Think of salad dressing. If you shake the bottle, oil and vinegar separate, right? But with motor oil, you don’t want it separating from any water that enters the engine.

Our in-house technology lab and third-party tests included mixing oil with water and fuel for 24 hours. Unlike the industry-leading full synthetic, the entire lineup of Valvoline full synthetic motor oil showed no separation – in other words, there was no water at the bottom of the oil. In fact, Valvoline motor oil looked the same after the test as it did before.

 

[nwjones18]

I get analysis's on my 5.7 to try and give myself a heads up if the lifters are failing.. I always assumed that would show with high Iron. I don't know if yours is high enough to show a real issue or not. Mine is much lower than that with more miles on the change..

 

[OVERKILL]

I get analysis's on my 5.7 to try and give myself a heads up if the lifters are failing.. I always assumed that would show with high Iron. I don't know if yours is high enough to show a real issue or not. Mine is much lower than that with more miles on the change..

View attachment 280634

21 should be beyond the lifter issue, that was apparently addressed in 2018.

You appear to be 3.64ppm per thousand miles on your most recent sample, the OP is 15.69ppm per thousand miles, my 1500 is at 3.69ppm per thousand miles, so he's clearly the outlier here.

 

[lakestone]

Mr. @ramcar try Valvoline Restore and Protect 5W-30 or Mobil 1 EP 5W-30. The HEMI will be perfectly happy with them. Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 (API SP) is another fantastic option for this engine. None of the above oils have esters in them, and you should see your Iron numbers drop.

Esters are not fully hydrophilic, neither are they fully hydrophobic, so motor oils with ester content are not great for engines that are short tripped. It took a long time and trial & error for me to learn this.

 

[ramcar]

one thing i forgot to note, is i run a catch can, during the warm months it catches very little and what it does looks like oil, in winter its grabbing alot of watery looking milk shakish appearance stuff, its what led me to ponder is there just more water content in the block due to condensation in the winter months, then creating a trace rust due to all the sitting and light use.

 

[lakestone]

one thing i forgot to note, is i run a catch can, during the warm months it catches very little and what it does looks like oil, in winter its grabbing alot of watery looking milk shakish appearance stuff, its what led me to ponder is there just more water content in the block due to condensation in the winter months, then creating a trace rust due to all the sitting and light use.

It's a mix of oil vapor and water. The water vapor is condensation. Run one of the above oils I recommended, and that mix will become more water and less oil, so less milky, in the winter.

 

[RDY4WAR]

The oil will become milky from condensation regardless of what oil is used. The difference is in how well the oil prevents said condensation from causing rust and other problems. Given the rust inhibition of API oils are pretty similar to one another, a product of the manner in which add packs are licensed, you're unlikely to see much difference in this area between API oils. There's no incentive to do more than the minimum here.

If you want better rust prevention, you'll want to look beyond API oils. This is where trust in the company is paramount. I recommend HPL because I know their standards for rust prevention are magnitudes more strict than API. Amsoil, Driven, and Red Line also perform superior in this area.

 

[FZ1]

I keep getting high iron when i change the oil in the spring to get the winter oil out. It makes me wonder if how im using the truck in the winter is creating condensation in the engine and this is just "rust" as the truck doesn't really get warmed up. I live in Minnesota, its cold. In the winter i dont drive it much, and when i do its a short trip 7.5 each way to get my kid at his school. In the summer the truck sees most of its mileage towing a 6klb travel trailer. I change the oil twice a year, in the spring i get high iron, and in the fall after towing all summer give me normal iron levels.

Any thoughts on this reasoning?

View attachment 280575

View attachment 280576

Add a third oil change in Winter to get the condensation out of the oil, sooner. .02.

 

[lakestone]

If you want better rust prevention, you'll want to look beyond API oils. This is where trust in the company is paramount. I recommend HPL because I know their standards for rust prevention are magnitudes more strict than API. Amsoil, Driven, and Red Line also perform superior in this area.

Do you have some tests and data showing these boutique oils preventing more rust than, say, Mobil API licensed oils do?

 

[facility1]

may want to check the pvc valve or replace and try Valvoline EP 5w-30 ( its good oil) plus run a injector/fuel cleaner, what kind of fuel are you using ?, switch fuels . lots of short trips and long idle times, heavy foot as mentioned in test results may also be a thought.

 

[lakestone]

may want to check the pvc valve or replace and try Valvoline EP 5w-30 ( its good oil) plus run a injector/fuel cleaner, what kind of fuel are you using ?, switch fuels . lots of short trips and long idle times, heavy foot as mentioned in test results may also be a thought.

His catch can is working, his PCV valve is fine. On the 5.7 HEMI it's very easy to replace.

In all fairness, idling the truck for 10 to 15 minutes in winter before leaving home would solve the problem. To avoid lifter issues due to idling oil pressure, I would run a 0/5W-30 or 0W-40, like I previously recommended. Oil viscosity has its place, in this is one of those situations where it can help. That's about all OP needs to do.

 

[BornSlippy]

Drive it in Tow/Haul mode.
Make sure you lock out MDS by using gear- and gear+ buttons on steering wheel to select 8th gear.
Every other day, take the long way home
Use M1 0W-40

This is what I do since my usage pattern is fairly similar to yours, and so is my climate.

 

[OVERKILL]

Mr. @ramcar try Valvoline Restore and Protect 5W-30 or Mobil 1 EP 5W-30. The HEMI will be perfectly happy with them. Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 (API SP) is another fantastic option for this engine. None of the above oils have esters in them, and you should see your Iron numbers drop.

Esters are not fully hydrophilic, neither are they fully hydrophobic, so motor oils with ester content are not great for engines that are short tripped. It took a long time and trial & error for me to learn this.

That hasn't been my experience with HPL, which uses esters. My iron is a fraction of the OP's per thousand miles and the truck is short tripped on the regular all winter and I'm running insanely long OCI's.

 

[OVERKILL]

For the sake of making any trend more obvious, I've put the OP's data in table format:

Date	Mileage	Fe PPM	Fe per 1,000 miles
5/9/2023	4,962	122	24.59
6/1/2023	938	32	34.12
7/24/2023	2,500	10	4
10/22/2023	3,137	18	5.74
5/14/2024	3,231	33	10.21
10/25/2024	3,968	21	5.29
5/7/2025	3,059	48	15

His short change spanning May/June 2023 is actually the worst in ppm per mile. The subsequent month flush in July seems to be much better, same with the one three months after that in October.

From October to May, iron comes back up, but nowhere near as bad as it had been back in 2023. May through to October run comes down, but it's still high relative to my truck and @nwjones18. Back up again over the winter, but still lower than 2023.

So yes, I think corrosion may be a factor during the winter runs, but that doesn't explain the spring 2023 run, which looks like you had something shedding some material, and that basically stopped being the case for the June/July run; the 3rd OCI. I don't think this one is explained by corrosion.

 

[lakestone]

That hasn't been my experience with HPL, which uses esters. My iron is a fraction of the OP's per thousand miles and the truck is short tripped on the regular all winter and I'm running insanely long OCI's.

It depends on type and quantity. Esters aren't bad at all, that's not what I'm saying. It all depends on final formulation target. A lot of motor oils with high ester content don't target grocery getters or gasoline engines, that's just the way it is. Even as it stands, the OP is not running a motor oil with high ester content. If Valvoline Extended Protection has any esters, it must be a minute amount.

Looking at his viscosity at 100C, the solution is simple: OP should warm up his truck, and not short trip his engine cold. That's where the fuel dilution and additional wear comes from. I don't think the OP needs racing level motor like HPL, which is a very high quality product, totally overkill for his needs. All he needs to do is warm up the truck before hitting the road. I know it's an old concept, and many say it's outdated, so on and so forth, but guess what: so is the HEMI.

 

[OVERKILL]

It depends on type and quantity. Esters aren't bad at all, that's not what I'm saying. It all depends on final formulation target. A lot of motor oils with high ester content don't target grocery getters or gasoline engines, that's just the way it is. Even as it stands, the OP is not running a motor oil with high ester content. If Valvoline Extended Protection has any esters, it must be a minute amount.

Looking at his viscosity at 100C, the solution is simple: OP should warm up his truck, and not short trip his engine cold. That's where the fuel dilution and additional wear comes from. I don't think the OP needs racing level motor like HPL, which is a very high quality product, totally overkill for his needs. All he needs to do is warm up the truck before hitting the road. I know it's an old concept, and many say it's outdated, so on and so forth, but guess what: so is the HEMI.

Right, I just don't like speaking in absolutes. There may be cases where certain esters are problematic in certain operating conditions, but, as you note, that's not universal. I don't think we can present "oils with ester content aren't great for short tripping" as a universal truth, I'd adjust the statement to have a "may not be" in there instead of the "aren't". I've not looked at a Redline UOA for similar operating conditions, but it's possible it shows a similar trend to the OP's.

Between my wife and I, we've owned 6x HEMI's at this point, lol. Both of our current ones see liberal use of remote start all year round. In the winter for warm up, in the summer for cool down. They high idle for a while, so this avoids having to wait for that. It also allows for the heated wheel and seats to get up to temp, or, in the case of the Jeep, cool down during the summer months.

Of course we also run the larger XG2 filters on both vehicles.

 

[lakestone]

Right, I just don't like speaking in absolutes. There may be cases where certain esters are problematic in certain operating conditions, but, as you note, that's not universal. I don't think we can present "oils with ester content aren't great for short tripping" as a universal truth, I'd adjust the statement to have a "may not be" in there instead of the "aren't". I've not looked at a Redline UOA for similar operating conditions, but it's possible it shows a similar trend to the OP's.

Take Red Line High Performance - it's been formulated for "enthusiast use" - and recently it was reformulated. Not all Red Line oils have the same ester content, but I dare anyone to short trip one of their high ester content oils for like 6 months. Point being: the target audience isn't grocery getters, it's enthusiasts, racers, etc. I think that's why Mobil uses ANs in their "grocery getter" formulations. And it's flying off the shelves at walmart, especially EP in 0W-20 and 5W-30 viscosities. Meanwhile, Pennzoil, Castrol, Valvoline (except for VRP) is gathering dust, so is QS. It's funny that people either buy Mobil 1, or the cheapest Super Tech.

Between my wife and I, we've owned 6x HEMI's at this point, lol. Both of our current ones see liberal use of remote start all year round. In the winter for warm up, in the summer for cool down. They high idle for a while, so this avoids having to wait for that. It also allows for the heated wheel and seats to get up to temp, or, in the case of the Jeep, cool down during the summer months.

Of course we also run the larger XG2 filters on both vehicles.

Yes, but you let your engines warm up, and that is key. The HEMI likes to be warm. I said warm, not hot. No, the HEMI does not like to be hot. It just likes to be in that cozy "feel-good" zone and it will live a long and happy life. Come to think of it: most engines would.