2019 Corolla hatchback manual transmission gear oil

[Cellist]

Originally Posted by pleopard
Originally Posted by Cellist
Recently purchased a 2020 4 door corolla SE 6-speed and I have exact same feeling as OP does. It's embarrassing and annoying when driving in slow and heavy traffic and you need to down-shift to 1st gear! I've also test-driven a Jetta manual and it shifts way better.


I guess this further suggests this specific concern may be normal. What about 1st to 2nd shifts when cold? Do you find that they're harder and rough?


Yes, I feel it's normal for this car. Maybe a bad design. It's also has a long shifting throw. I've also test-driven a civic (LX manual) and a Jetta and the civic. The civic gearbox is even rougher than the corolla. The Jetta is the smoothest.

1st to 2nd needs some extra force and no problem when shifting after 3 or above . I was annoyed quite a bit when I first got the car and was considering a fluid change. But after some research, I think I'd accept this for now because:

1) Toyota uses s 75w monograde (not a 75w-85) fluid which is already very thin and looks pretty solid in add pack according to the VOA.
2) Hard to find a reasonably priced replacement fluid with better low temp performance (perhaps Rredline MT-LV but it's about $20/qt)

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

I'm not sure I'd flinch at $20/qt. I suspect it takes < 2 qts... mebe 3. The long term negative effects on the speedgear dogteeth, the synchro sleeve dog teeth, and the rolling element bearings (due to the circulating swarf) - and the cost of rectifying same - makes $60 seem insignificant. Plus, wouldn't it bug a person ea. and every day they drove the car? It sure would - me!

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Quote
I feel it's normal for this car. Maybe a bad design. It's also has a long shifting throw. I've also test-driven a civic (LX manual) and a Jetta and the civic. The civic gearbox is even rougher than the corolla. The Jetta is the smoothest.


Funny how VW seems to repeatedly whack it out of the ball-park when it comes to manual transaxles. I think their 'boxes are either ZF or Borg-Warner mfr'd. They do many things well including rustproofing. Perhaps electrical and peripheral car components not so much... but they do the basic mechanical components pretty darned well.

 

[AC1DD]

I'd suggest Pentosin MTF-2 , full synthetic and low viscosity low temps. GL-4 only rated! (It's listed as 75w-80, but it's got low viscosity at lower temps so it should help.

http://www.pentosin.net/specsheets/Pentosin_MTF-2.pdf

 

[ARCOgraphite]

For the OP curious how far above the floor mat the clutch begins to engage.

Let it idle, engage 1st and s-l-o-w-ly engage ( no gas) till the car starts to creep.

Most cars with hydraulic "self adjusters" tend to adjust too low to the carpet.

The you just have to mat it and count to 2 and a half then shift.

Wife wrecked the 2nd blocker on her 2005 Rav4.

Toyota said they could do nothing

Tried a good bleed but no help.

Couldn't see anything to adjust in the footwell.

Some cars have adjustable pushrod length right at the slave.
If worse comes to worse you could have a shop make a very slightly longer rod.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted by pleopard


1) Toyota uses s 75w monograde (not a 75w-85) fluid which is already very thin and looks pretty solid in add pack according to the VOA...


There is no such thing as a 75W monograde. The "W" designation is for Multigrades that contain Viscosity Index Improvers or have base oils to span the tested viscosity range without VII's.

Low Viscosity (LV) fluids are considered to have viscosities@100C from about 4.75 cSt to 6.5 cSt.

Please show us the Analysis you have of the Toyota MTF.

As other have suggested, make sure the clutch disengage clearance is really where it should be. Sometime the clutches come from the factory with too little clearance.

 

[pleopard]

Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
I'm not sure I'd flinch at $20/qt. I suspect it takes < 2 qts... mebe 3. The long term negative effects on the speedgear dogteeth, the synchro sleeve dog teeth, and the rolling element bearings (due to the circulating swarf) - and the cost of rectifying same - makes $60 seem insignificant. Plus, wouldn't it bug a person ea. and every day they drove the car? It sure would - me!


1.5L (1.59 quarts). if I conclude it's normal behaviour for the car, I'll be supplying the dealer with RedLine MT-LV 75W.

 

[pleopard]

Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Quote
I feel it's normal for this car. Maybe a bad design. It's also has a long shifting throw. I've also test-driven a civic (LX manual) and a Jetta and the civic. The civic gearbox is even rougher than the corolla. The Jetta is the smoothest.


Funny how VW seems to repeatedly whack it out of the ball-park when it comes to manual transaxles. I think their 'boxes are either ZF or Borg-Warner mfr'd. They do many things well including rustproofing. Perhaps electrical and peripheral car components not so much... but they do the basic mechanical components pretty darned well.


Yes, their cars are nice to drive, period. Excellent engine performance, good driving dynamics, solid bodies, etc. German cars are hard to beat for pure driving experience. I just couldn't justify all the problems, as I have better things to do with my money. I owned four of them (‘92 Jetta turbo diesel manual, ‘06 Jetta TDI manual, ‘10 Jetta TDI DSG, ‘14 Passat TSI auto), and all but the 92 had major issues.

 

[pleopard]

Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
For the OP curious how far above the floor mat the clutch begins to engage.

Let it idle, engage 1st and s-l-o-w-ly engage ( no gas) till the car starts to creep.

Most cars with hydraulic "self adjusters" tend to adjust too low to the carpet.

The you just have to mat it and count to 2 and a half then shift.

Wife wrecked the 2nd blocker on her 2005 Rav4.

Toyota said they could do nothing

Tried a good bleed but no help.

Couldn't see anything to adjust in the footwell.

Some cars have adjustable pushrod length right at the slave.
If worse comes to worse you could have a shop make a very slightly longer rod.



Not sure - I'd say it starts to engage fairly close to the floor, but I'll have to test it.

What did you mean by "mat it"?

 

[Cellist]

Originally Posted by MolaKule


There is no such thing as a 75W monograde. The "W" designation is for Multigrades that contain Viscosity Index Improvers or have base oils to span the tested viscosity range without VII's.


Castrol list their SAE 10W products as "monograde"
https://www.castrol.com/en_us/unite...gine-oil-viscosity-grades/monograde.html

This toyota fluid comes with 75W single designation as far as I know. Could you please advise the SAE J306 rating for the higher temperature of this fluid?

Originally Posted by MolaKule

Low Viscosity (LV) fluids are considered to have viscosities@100C from about 4.75 cSt to 6.5 cSt.


The "LV" is a GM specification? The Toyota fluid does not say "LV" in it

Originally Posted by MolaKule

Please show us the Analysis you have of the Toyota MTF.


I do not have the analysis report. It was posted on this forum.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4389571/Toyota_Transfer_Gear_Oil_75W_V

as well as other discussions:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-revisit-toyota-transfer-gear-oil-lf-75w


Originally Posted by MolaKule

As other have suggested, make sure the clutch disengage clearance is really where it should be. Sometimes the clutches come from the factory with too little clearance.


That might be the problem. I'll have it checked by a dealer and reported it back.

 

[Cellist]

Originally Posted by pleopard
Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
I'm not sure I'd flinch at $20/qt. I suspect it takes < 2 qts... mebe 3. The long term negative effects on the speedgear dogteeth, the synchro sleeve dog teeth, and the rolling element bearings (due to the circulating swarf) - and the cost of rectifying same - makes $60 seem insignificant. Plus, wouldn't it bug a person ea. and every day they drove the car? It sure would - me!


1.5L (1.59 quarts). if I conclude it's normal behaviour for the car, I'll be supplying the dealer with RedLine MT-LV 75W.


This is indeed small money compared to the (anticipated) long lifespan of the vehicle. I am not concerned with the mechanical wear caused by the factory fill gear fluid but it is really annoying to drive when you need to shift for sudden acceleration.

Good idea for letting the dealer changing it for you! Letting us know if the redline fluid does improve the shifting. I might do the same as well if the problem persists. Tomorrow will be a colder day (-16C) and I might do some testing on the 1st and 2nd gear.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Re the whole matter of not exhibiting (full) clutch disengagement: I suppose that shifting into all gears would be affected... but having said this - it is into-1st, into-2nd, and into-3rd gear - in this order of being "arduous"/difficult-to-synchronize - that the action of the synchronizers would show notchiness... provided all synchronizers.... being new (and not being duds from the start) are equally up to the task.

Comments? Do you agree?

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite


Most cars with hydraulic "self adjusters" tend to adjust too low to the carpet.

....

Wife wrecked the 2nd blocker on her 2005 Rav4.

Toyota said they could do nothing

Tried a good bleed but no help.

Couldn't see anything to adjust in the footwell.

Some cars have adjustable pushrod length right at the slave.
If worse comes to worse you could have a shop make a very slightly longer rod.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted by Cellist

There is no such thing as a 75W monograde. The "W" designation is for Multigrades that contain Viscosity Index Improvers or have base oils to span the tested viscosity range without VII's.


Originally Posted by Cellist
Castrol list their SAE 10W products as "monograde"
https://www.castrol.com/en_us/unite...gine-oil-viscosity-grades/monograde.html


Then why don't they list their other Assuron products such as their 30, 40, 50 monograde oils with a W afterwords? The 10W means it has a viscosity spread greater than an SAE 10 grade so it is not a true monograde. Amsoil had a diesel engine oil that was speced as a 10W-30/SAE 30 because it had base oils to span the tested viscosity range greater than 30 grade, and this designation was the proper way to express the grade.

Originally Posted by Cellist
This toyota fluid comes with 75W single designation as far as I know. Could you please advise the SAE J306 rating for the higher temperature of this fluid?


I don't know what you are saying here. Please clarify.

Originally Posted by MolaKule

Low Viscosity (LV) fluids are considered to have viscosities@100C from about 4.75 cSt to 6.5 cSt.


Originally Posted by Cellist
The "LV" is a GM specification? The Toyota fluid does not say "LV" in it


LV is NOT a GM specification. For example, while Dexron VI is a low viscosity ATF. It does not say "LV" on the bottles. Where did your LV information come from? Some manf. express their LV fluids on the bottle, some do not but may do so in their PDS sheets.

These dedicated MTF specific fluids below are considered LV fluids because of their rated VISCOSITIES at 100C:

Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,
BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,
Honda MTII or MTF 2.
Ford FML-XT-11-QDC
Volvo Manual Transmission Fluid (6.4 cSt) [Recommended for: type M65 5-speed with 6-cyl. engine, M66, MTX75 and MMT6 and of the type M56, M58 and M59 from and including model year 1996. Meets Ford specification WSSM2C200-D2]
Redline MT-LV SAE Viscosity Grade 70W/75W Vis 6.5cst@100°C

Please Study this link: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

Originally Posted by Cellist
I do not have the analysis report. It was posted on this forum.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4389571/Toyota_Transfer_Gear_Oil_75W_V

as well as other discussions:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-revisit-toyota-transfer-gear-oil-lf-75w


That discussion was for the Toyota Transfer Case fluid and it is indeed a Low Viscosity (LV) TC gear lube introduced for Fleet Mileage gains. So are you now saying this Transfer case fluid is speced for your transmission?

If so, then the

Redline https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/files/tech/MT-LV_GO_PROD_INFO(1).pdf

qualifies as an LV fluid with an LV viscosity and a hefty Anti-Wear/Friction Modification package.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Didn't finish my reply. ARCO graphite: i thought your idea is brilliant... re adj. of the clutch slave rod. Dealer would not go there at all... Sometimes the engineers with the mfr don't quite fully engineer their car. Thx!

 

[AC1DD]

Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Didn't finish my reply. ARCO graphite: i thought your idea is brilliant... re adj. of the clutch slave rod. Dealer would not go there at all... Sometimes the engineers with the mfr don't quite fully engineer their car. Thx!


Might want to call Toyota Motor Canada and open up a case with them. Things like this NEED to be documented.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

My post didn't refer to the OP's Corolla necessarily. I thought ARCOgraphite's post was instructive, personally for me with my '17 Mazda6 6mt. His suggestion constitutes another avenue for me to explore as I have snatchy 1st and 2nd gear engagements (from new). Spurred a new line of thought for me.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Didn't finish my reply. ARCO graphite: i thought your idea is brilliant... re adj. of the clutch slave rod. Dealer would not go there at all... Sometimes the engineers with the mfr don't quite fully engineer their car. Thx!

I should modify my comments... I should say:

Dealer would NOT question the release rod length... or at the least, would not go to a machinist to have a custom, revised-length rod made. Leave that to the enterprising and steeped-in-the-technical DETERMINED owner. If that's what it'd take... I would do it, no question about it.

 

[pleopard]

If the disengage clearance is too small, why would the roughness go away when warm? That said, even when warm, it won't shift into 1st from a stop approximately 1 in 30-50 stops. Maybe that's related to the clutch engagement point?

I was at the dealership today to drive another Corolla Hatch XSE. It sat all night in -11C weather. It was notchy going into 2nd, but smooth notchy, like I expect, not rough and in some cases audibly rough notchy...

I asked them to change out the 75W90 Mobil1 GL-5 stuff they put in that only seemed to make problems slightly worse. The foreman's comment: "the Asian oils aren't that good compared to North American....". They seem to love dissing their own products. Here's the ironic thing. The Toyota LV 75W GL-4 manual transmission fluid is made in France, not Asia... he also tried to suggest the 75W90 is thinner than the original fluid (based on...get this...feel!).

Anyway, they didn't have the fluid in stock, so they're getting it in for tomorrow. I'm going to make sure they show me the bottles and I also want them to show me the 75W90 bottle so I can document it. When I hit 16,000km I'm going to request another change to flush out residual GL-5.

On another note, how is the engagement point adjusted if it hasn't been mentioned already?

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Originally Posted by pleopard
If the disengage clearance is too small, why would the roughness go away when warm?


That's 'cuz all manual transmissions, in my experience, shift more poorly when cold. Synchro's are recalcitrant. Clutch drag if present in your case is only a little evident mebe... pushes it into snatching just a bit... and just a bit more when cold.