2018 VW Tiguan - Last oil change while under warranty

Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
8,735
Location
Atlanta,GA
No it was not.

And the tracers are added to identify uses where this oil was not approved, not the other way around. VW was clear that 508 00 oils were not to be used in any applications other than those for which it is approved.

No engine is harmed by an oil with a higher HT/HS but one can be damaged by an oil that has an HT/HS that’s too low. VW is protecting against this, not detecting that only 508 00 oils are being used. When I had the first two oil change is done by the dealer for my Tiguan I asked that the dealer use 504 00 anyway and that’s what they used. No mention of possible damage or warranty violations since those are both non-issues.

Film thickness prevents wear and damage, and again not the other way around.
You're incorrect. I'm talking about this version of the EA888 It was designed to run 508 hence the specification. Did VW back spec 508 for previous variants? I do not believe so.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
8,735
Location
Atlanta,GA
Except it wasn't. It was designed for 502.00, as the initial printing of the manual required that spec. It was superseded by 508.00 on a bac spec basis for fuel economy reasons.

The EA888 Gen 3B engine was new at the launch of that model. It differs from the other EA888 engines as it is the first Budak cycle engine in the family. The recommendation wouldn't have been a holdover from earlier, it was likely because they were working furiously on a fuel economy spec, but didn't have it ready in time for the model's release.
I'm not talking about the first iteration of EA888 I'm talking about the OP's engine. Did VW back spec 508 for previous variants? Not that I'm aware of.
 
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
16,991
Location
Colorado Springs
You're incorrect. I'm talking about this version of the EA888 It was designed to run 508 hence the specification. Did VW back spec 508 for previous variants? I do not believe so.
Variable oil pump is change. Irrelevant. Running 0W20 in EA888 in my Tiguan is a problem. Running thicker oil in Gen3 is not a problem.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
23,681
Location
Upper Midwest
You're incorrect. I'm talking about this version of the EA888 It was designed to run 508 hence the specification. Did VW back spec 508 for previous variants? I do not believe so.
It may have been designed in some ways to tolerate thinner oils but no engine is designed "for" a thinner grade since no engine is harmed or failure caused by a higher HT/HS.

And what I posted about the tracers is exactly correct. It is to identify the misuse of the lower HT/HS oil in engines that cannot tolerate it. Gets back to the reasoning behind the warnings in an owner's manual that incorrect oils may violate the warranty. Oils with an insufficient HT/HS are quite capable of harming an engine.
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
8,735
Location
Atlanta,GA
It may have been designed in some ways to tolerate thinner oils but no engine is designed "for" a thinner grade since no engine is harmed or failure caused by a higher HT/HS.

And what I posted about the tracers is exactly correct. It is to identify the misuse of the lower HT/HS oil in engines that cannot tolerate it. Gets back to the reasoning behind the warnings in an owner's manual that incorrect oils may violate the warranty. Oils with an insufficient HT/HS are quite capable of harming an engine.
I'm not talking about the dye. Again, it's not all that difficult to understand. VW spec'd 508 for this variant. Yes you can use 504 or whatever but it doesn't mean that 508 is inadequate for the OPs application.
 
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
16,991
Location
Colorado Springs
Why is it a problem if the pump insures adequate flow?
Variable pump is added in Budak cycle compared to EA888 gen1. That is only change to accommodate such light oil. No other changes were made. Thicker oil is never problem to run. Especially not in an engine that was already specd. for heavy oil.
 
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
5,270
Location
Parts Unknown
Except it wasn't. It was designed for 502.00, as the initial printing of the manual required that spec. It was superseded by 508.00 on a bac spec basis for fuel economy reasons.

The EA888 Gen 3B engine was new at the launch of that model. It differs from the other EA888 engines as it is the first Budak cycle engine in the family. The recommendation wouldn't have been a holdover from earlier, it was likely because they were working furiously on a fuel economy spec, but didn't have it ready in time for the model's release.
The B8 Audi A4 got it before the Tiguan, as the A4 Ultra trim, prior to the Tigan being introduced with the same technology.
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
8,735
Location
Atlanta,GA
Variable pump is added in Budak cycle compared to EA888 gen1. That is only change to accommodate such light oil. No other changes were made. Thicker oil is never problem to run. Especially not in an engine that was already specd. for heavy oil.
Agree, I'm not saying that thicker oil is a problem. I'm saying Gen 3 was spec'd for 508. As you said VW used a different oil pump to make it work. This is vastly different from VW opting for a thinner oil without modification to the oiling system.
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
8,735
Location
Atlanta,GA
Except it wasn't. It was designed for 502.00, as the initial printing of the manual required that spec. It was superseded by 508.00 on a bac spec basis for fuel economy reasons.

The EA888 Gen 3B engine was new at the launch of that model. It differs from the other EA888 engines as it is the first Budak cycle engine in the family. The recommendation wouldn't have been a holdover from earlier, it was likely because they were working furiously on a fuel economy spec, but didn't have it ready in time for the model's release.
EA888 Gen 3 didn't exist at the printing of the manual so is the manual relevant? Are you saying VW back spec'd 508 for Gen 1 and Gen 2?
 
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Messages
1,337
Location
Simpsonville SC
The B-cycle EA888 is a different beast than the 2.0T EA888 Gen 3 in a few ways, none of which "require" or were "engineered " for a lower weight oil such as the 508.00, ie; different pistons, rings, smaller crank journals, oil pump (now the same across the EA888 family) and an array of microcontrollers that fine-tune the valve lift important to the B-cycle operation. That oil was purely speced for fuel economy reasons, as was the Budack engine for better overall fuel efficiency. Lighter weight and low HTHS oils produce less parasitic waste than a heavier oil and thus increases efficiency, albeit at very small amounts. All EA888s received the lower tension rings ~2015, but still used 502.00. Ironically, the oil pump was changed in 2018 to address low pressure issue when using 508.00. The lower weight oil would not produce sufficient pressure at lower RPMs with the original pump so they made one to increase pressure at low RPMs for it. Using a heavier weight oil in this "new" pump will cause no issues. As was pointed out, tracer/dye in 508 is to ensure it is not used in engines requiring a higher HTHS (502, 504 etc.), not to ensure it is the ONLY oil used in engines specing it.
 
Joined
May 17, 2021
Messages
1,800
Location
open range
And the tracers are added to identify uses where this oil was not approved, not the other way around. VW was clear that 508 00 oils were not to be used in any applications other than those for which it is approved.
No engine is harmed by an oil with a higher HT/HS but one can be damaged by an oil that has an HT/HS that’s too low. VW is protecting against this, not detecting that only 508 00 oils are being used.

Exactly. As repeatedly mentioned as well on ETKA reported, the dye
(as well as Zirconium present in all VW 508 00) is only to prove used
in cars where VW 508 00 is not allowed. For obvious reasons that's
the really if not only relevant danger to prevent.


Except it wasn't. It was designed for 502.00, as the initial printing of the manual required that spec. It was superseded by 508.00 on a bac spec basis for fuel economy reasons.

The EA888 Gen 3B engine was new at the launch of that model. It differs from the other EA888 engines as it is the first Budak cycle engine in the family. The recommendation wouldn't have been a holdover from earlier, it was likely because they were working furiously on a fuel economy spec, but didn't have it ready in time for the model's release.

Like mentioned the EA888 3G when launched in 2012 was designed
around VW 502 00 and 504 00. Entire Europe used VW 504 00 (XW-30).
When this Budack-EA888 3B introduced in 2015 Audi's publications (eg
SSP etc) said it was designed along with 0W-20. So this engine can run
easily all relevant approvals above (VW 502 00, 504 00, 508 00).


Knowing that this is a turbocharged DI engine, I am not overly comfortable continuing with a 0W-20, but would like to move to the 502.00 spec, which opens up more viscosities. Of the allowed viscosities, I am interested in a 0W-30 or 0W-40 for the climate I am in (temperatures year round that range normally from -30C to +30C, and can hit extremes reaching either -40C or +40C).

Thoughts on which viscosity would serve me best?

Feel comfortable using VW 508 00, however I'm in your same boat,
but without the excessive temps. My GTI is allowed using VW 508 00,
VW 504 00 and VW 502 00. I just feel with using VW 504 00 most
comfortable. While I prefer 5W-30 for myself I'd recommend using
VW 504 00 0W-30 to you (just because -30°C or even -40°C).
M1 ESP 0W-30 or PP Euro LX 0W-30 for example, maybe Ravenol
VSW 0W-30* if it's obtainable and appropriately priced in Canada.

*pourpoint -60°C, CCS (-35°C) 5565 mPa*s if it matters
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Messages
28,656
Location
CA
It may have been designed in some ways to tolerate thinner oils
Possibly bearing coatings.

"
Evaluation using specific in-house developed test rigs showed that the reduction in friction when using IROX-coated bearings is bigger than that obtained by changing from 5W30 to 0W20 oil."



While IROX was developed for crankshafts with a standard surface finish, IROX 2 is intended for crankshafts with extra smooth finish running with thinner oils. "

 
Top