2018 Lexus GS350 PYB SAE 30 w/Redline Break In 2025 mi on oil 3079 mi on vehicle

[FlyNavyP3]

This is the second oil change in a series of short distance oil changes to flush out break in metal on the new to the GF Lexus GS350. Oil was in use for 2025 miles, total vehicle miles at time of sample 3079. Filter in use (and still in place) is Fram TG9972. Will change again in another aprox 2,000 miles at around 5,000 vehicle miles, then let the dealership change the oil at 10,000 miles for the one free oil change. Oil was straight PYB SAE 30 with 1/2 Bottle of Redline Engine Break In additive added to it. Refill of the car was also PYB SAE 30 with the other 1/2 of the bottle of Redline.

No surprises here, longer run, but wear metals went down as expected, silicon is down as expected, and TBN is down (slightly) and no surprise Phosphorus and Zinc are up as is Calcium.

Enjoy.

 

[Zee09]

Your car and your business
Way overkill in my book
I'd never buy any car that required that kind of break in.

Not being a jerk either. Whenever I baby something like that I get less life out of it than
a jerk that does no maintenance.

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted by Zee09
Way overkill in my book


+1, well said Zee09.

 

[53' Stude]

Originally Posted by SatinSilver
Originally Posted by Zee09
Way overkill in my book


+1, well said Zee09.


Better to play it safe gents

 

[FlyNavyP3]

Originally Posted by Zee09
Your car and your business
Way overkill in my book
I'd never buy any car that required that kind of break in.

Not being a jerk either. Whenever I baby something like that I get less life out of it than
a jerk that does no maintenance.


Absolutely overkill. No argument from me. I mentioned the exact same thing in my previous thread. However the original filter was PACKED with metal on the first oil change and I was happy I did it. No real visible metal this go round. I am doing this out of habit based on years of rebuilding engines and observing what seems to work well for break in. It's a feel good thing. I'm sure it would've still outlived me even with running the factory fill 10k and 10k changes thereafter. I wasn't willing to do that. I formulated a break in oil plan and schedule and I'll stick to it. It will eventually get up to 10k intervals and stay there.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Its a good idea to get out the metals in there. Extra metals in the oil can't be doing anything good.
I'm more in agreement with the Honda-Acura approach to break-in: Lots of moly. mightymousetech: "I am a dealer tech (20 years with Acura/Honda) every couple years we get another service bulletin from Engineering stating that doing the first oil change early can damage the engine, and we are NOT to change the factory fill early. The factory fill oil is not the issue, it is the high moly assembly lube used they want retained in the oil. Doing the first oil change early can cause hot spots to form in the engine."

Either that, or just plain old PYB 30 weight conventional by itself. I don't see how the extra ZDDP from the Redline is doing much.

 

[FlyNavyP3]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Its a good idea to get out the metals in there. Extra metals in the oil can't be doing anything good.
I'm more in agreement with the Honda-Acura approach to break-in: Lots of moly. mightmousetech: "I am a dealer tech (20 years with Acura/Honda) every couple years we get another service bulletin from Engineering stating that doing the first oil change early can damage the engine, and we are NOT to change the factory fill early. The factory fill oil is not the issue, it is the high moly assembly lube used they want retained in the oil. Doing the first oil change early can cause hot spots to form in the engine."
Either that, or just plain old PYB 30 weight conventional by itself. I don't see how the extra ZDDP from the Redline is doing much.


I added the Red line to boost the Zinc closer to the factory fill. The UOA on PYB SAE 30 in my ES330 showed ZN about 630 and I wanted a little more than that but didn't want to go crazy hence the half bottle. Again as I previously stated all is probably overkill and unnecessary but makes for a feel good and great discussion on here.

No observable differential in fuel economy either over 0w20 btw.

 

[Zee09]

Originally Posted by FlyNavyP3
Originally Posted by Zee09
Your car and your business
Way overkill in my book
I'd never buy any car that required that kind of break in.

Not being a jerk either. Whenever I baby something like that I get less life out of it than
a jerk that does no maintenance.


Absolutely overkill. No argument from me. I mentioned the exact same thing in my previous thread. However the original filter was PACKED with metal on the first oil change and I was happy I did it. No real visible metal this go round. I am doing this out of habit based on years of rebuilding engines and observing what seems to work well for break in. It's a feel good thing. I'm sure it would've still outlived me even with running the factory fill 10k and 10k changes thereafter. I wasn't willing to do that. I formulated a break in oil plan and schedule and I'll stick to it. It will eventually get up to 10k intervals and stay there.



Live and learn. I would never expect that out of a Lexus or Toyota-WOW!
The last seven new cars I purchased at 2500 miles had nothing in the oil or filter- I just quit doing that.
I run them to 5K and even then I didn't see anything in my Ford f350, Mitsu's x2, Ford C-Max, Dodge Challenger RT and so on.


Funny story. I had 3 garage doors and openers installed by a Lexus mechanic on a house I was flipping. Top notch mechanic- not an oil changer.
He was laid off- no repair business

 

[StevieC]

Fly,

If it was lots of grey bits in the filter housing I had the same thing with the break-in on my Highlander and it was actually sealant material and not metal bits although there were a few metal bits. This debris I'm talking about is shiny like metal but actually is pliable if you play with the debris between your fingers and not sharp like metal bits.

Thanks for posting, always interesting to see break-in engine wear on a UOA.

 

[FlyNavyP3]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Fly,

If it was lots of grey bits in the filter housing I had the same thing with the break-in on my Highlander and it was actually sealant material and not metal bits although there were a few metal bits. This debris I'm talking about is shiny like metal but actually is pliable if you play with the debris between your fingers and not sharp like metal bits.

Thanks for posting, always interesting to see break-in engine wear on a UOA.

I'll double check the filter as I still have it but I'm almost certain it was aluminum and not silicone sealant. Either way it's out and wear numbers are down for me that's a win.

 

[Artem]

Interesting break-in method.

I just dump the factory fill after 1,000 miles of city use. No way it takes an engine 10,000+ miles to "wear in", that's pure nonsense.

Oh and hot spots from lack of Moly? Come on. More hogwash nonsense from the manufacturers.

I'm went thru 4 or 5 new vehicles with short 1,000 mile initial OCI and all have produced stellar UOAs up to 150,000 miles and my 98 Camry V6 is still going @ 300k miles. No engine damage from dumping the factory fill early.

 

[CaspianM]

Originally Posted by Artem
Interesting break-in method.

I just dump the factory fill after 1,000 miles of city use. No way it takes an engine 10,000+ miles to "wear in", that's pure nonsense.

Oh and hot spots from lack of Moly? Come on. More hogwash nonsense from the manufacturers.

I'm went thru 4 or 5 new vehicles with short 1,000 mile initial OCI and all have produced stellar UOAs up to 150,000 miles and my 98 Camry V6 is still going @ 300k miles. No engine damage from dumping the factory fill early.

Agreed.

 

[SteveSRT8]

I was always in the change it early and often camp. These days I'm not so sure it even makes a difference.

But it does make ya feel good!

 

[dave1251]

Well this is an intesting break in procedure. I would not even UOA it for another 20K miles if this were me.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
I was always in the change it early and often camp. These days I'm not so sure it even makes a difference.

But it does make ya feel good!


I guess it's a hit or miss in regards to how well the engine was assembled and it's overall design / efficiency.

If done correctly, there's barely any break-in material being shed and most is captured by the oil filter. No harm done if the initial fill is left in for the duration of the factory interval.

Now, if some absurd amount of silicon bits are floating around, there's cooper from oil coolers, piston rings are scratching themselves smooth against the cylinder walls, etc etc, then I would say it's better to drain that sand paper brew out early to help remove abrasive material. I want nothing but the purest, and cleanest of oil flowing thru my engines.

Some of you are funny though. You buy the best oil filter, some even install bypass filtration in an effort to keep the oil clean but then think it's ok to let the dirty factory fill remain in the block for months on end and thousands of miles.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Artem
Some of you are funny though. You buy the best oil filter, some even install bypass filtration in an effort to keep the oil clean but then think it's ok to let the dirty factory fill remain in the block for months on end and thousands of miles.

But like you point out, you're not letting dirty factory oil remain, especially if you have a bypass system installed. The metals that show up on the UOA are neither the particles trapped in the filters nor are they the ones doing any damage.

 

[Artem]

No I mean, some leave the metallic soup to scratch up the internals until the first scheduled service but then go all out trying to use the best oil and filter to make sure that oil stays as clean as possible.

Well what happened to that idea when the engine had 3 miles on the clock?

 

[FlyNavyP3]

As for those asking or commenting on the abbreviated changes. I've always done short changes on new engines working up to the eventual interval while monitoing UOA's to establish trends. WIX UOA are cheap so why not. This car the plan was (all numbers in total vehicle mileage not interval) 1k, 3k, 5k, 10k, 15k, 20k, 30k every 10k thereafter. The 1k, 3k, 5k were all clearance oils I had laying around and had basically no investment in, 10k will be free at the dealership, 15k will likely also be clearance oil as well.

 

[StevieC]

On my high mileage Santa Fe I did 1,000km (600 mile), 3,000km (1800 mile) - Conventional. Then 5,000km (3K mile) synthetic, then factory OCI until I did the first UOA. It wasn't using any oil when the camshaft snapped.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted by Artem
Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
I was always in the change it early and often camp. These days I'm not so sure it even makes a difference.

But it does make ya feel good!


I guess it's a hit or miss in regards to how well the engine was assembled and it's overall design / efficiency.

If done correctly, there's barely any break-in material being shed and most is captured by the oil filter. No harm done if the initial fill is left in for the duration of the factory interval.

Now, if some absurd amount of silicon bits are floating around, there's cooper from oil coolers, piston rings are scratching themselves smooth against the cylinder walls, etc etc, then I would say it's better to drain that sand paper brew out early to help remove abrasive material. I want nothing but the purest, and cleanest of oil flowing thru my engines.

Some of you are funny though. You buy the best oil filter, some even install bypass filtration in an effort to keep the oil clean but then think it's ok to let the dirty factory fill remain in the block for months on end and thousands of miles.

That was me in the old daze, but when I bought my sig car in 05 I decided to simply follow the manual. My car specs 3000 mile OCI with M1 0W-40 as factory fill and on the filler cap. Today even though the 6.1 is a notable consumer mine is really tight, and even faster than when new with just shy of 100k miles on her. So no harm was done here.


I suspect that these days with modern cars the early change is not likely needed unless specifically recommended. Much like the larger oil filter craze, it's a "feel good" thing...