2018 Audi S4 Castrol 0W20 508.00

[Vigg]

Here is my second UOA of my 2018 Audi S4 with 12k miles on the clock. This sample was taken at 4.5k miles and was not changed. My wife drives this car and has a round trip of 22 miles a day. It gets driven probably 90/10 city to highway. She does get on it pretty good as I can hear the d@mn thing when she's on the phone with me.

A few things. The oil pan for this vehicle is rather large for a 3.0 V6. It holds a total of 7.7 quarts. At the time of this sample the digital oil gauge (no dipstick) was reading half was down the acceptable range. I believe the gauge represents a full quart so its safe to say it used half a quart in 4.5k miles which isn't bad but not great I suppose.

This VW508 spec is somewhat a mystery. Its been discussed here but its not as well known as some of the others. Most people including myself have some reserve using a 20 weight oil with a HTHS of 2.6 on a turbo charged DI motor making 354 HP and 369 lb-ft.

The manual and under the hood strictly call for a 508 spec oil. I did find an online training manual for the EA839 motor and in it, it says the oil system is made for 0W20 and VW504 spec oil.

Observations. The Fe is trending down but I don't think as fast as I was hoping. The Al did not move at all which was disappointing. The Cu did come down substantially but I'm not overly concerned with it as this has a factory oil cooler on it. Si is still pretty high but I guess it still has some break in material in it. The Audi Dealership did the first oil change so maybe they didn't get it completely out? I know they do a top mount drain rather then gravity drain.

As for the make up of this oil I don't think it looks bad. The Zinc for a 20 weight looks pretty stout. Does have a splash of Ti as this Castrol product should. No Mo (boo) and no Mg. Still has pretty decent Ca for a DI motor which I'm not sure if that's a good thing. The viscosity seems pretty high for this oil as well. Hope it didn't thicken up for some reason. The TBN on the first analysis I always assumed was wrong and wasn't concerned with it. The TBN on this one is very disappointing and I wouldn't trust this oil to go the 10k or 1 year interval it calls for.

I think I would like to switch to a 504 spec oil. Maybe I need to give the 508 one more run to see how its doing? The low TBN doesn't really make me feel good and I guess if I'm going to have to change it at 5k I might as well throw the more robust 504 spec in there?

Anyhow looking forward to your guys opinion on this UOA.

 

[Danno]

Engine looks to be still breaking in, iron trending down.
Interesting difference in Base numbers between the 2 UOAs, wonder why?

 

[benjy]

in texas heat i would use no less than a 10-30 synthetic + prolly a real synthetic like Redline oil is!! of course the oil volume is a plus but short trips with DI is a killer! don't understand Vag not using the direct + port injections as in europe!

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted by Danno
Engine looks to be still breaking in, iron trending down.
Interesting difference in Base numbers between the 2 UOAs, wonder why?


The first OC was the factory fill.....it seems stouter (TBN wise) than the Castrol used for the OC.....strange....

 

[Vigg]

Originally Posted by benjy
in texas heat i would use no less than a 10-30 synthetic + prolly a real synthetic like Redline oil is!! of course the oil volume is a plus but short trips with DI is a killer! don't understand Vag not using the direct + port injections as in europe!


I would like to keep the warranty intact so I'm open to a 504 in a 5W30 which are always on the heavy side of 30 weights anyway. I agree with the port + DI. The 5 cylinder in the RS3 and TTRS were rewarded with this feature as I believe all other Audi motors didn't get it sadly.


Originally Posted by Danno
Engine looks to be still breaking in, iron trending down.
Interesting difference in Base numbers between the 2 UOAs, wonder why?


I agree I think its still breaking in. I believe the first TBN was a test error or someone wrote the wrong number. Perhaps someone hand wrote out a 4 that looked like a 9 and that's how it was typed. Its been too long to ask for clarification so I guess well never know.....


Originally Posted by pbm
The first OC was the factory fill.....it seems stouter (TBN wise) than the Castrol used for the OC.....strange....


See above. I will say the FF vs what was put in is a different spec oil. Seems like VAG had a cheaper bulk oil made for the FF that still passes the 508 standard.

 

[2004tdigls]

I assume that the engine is still under warranty, submit the UOA to your local Audi Stealership and make a claim, 55 ppm Copper is ridiculous considering this is probably bearing material from the turbo

you can burn a lot of gas for 4%, a turbo on the other hand is thousands to replace


"1 In the required test PV1451 to pass the demanding VW specification VW 508 00/509 00, Castrol EDGE Professional LL IV FE 0W-20 gave more than 4% fuel economy benefit when compared to the test's 15W-40 reference oil. Actual results under road conditions may vary according to vehicle type, driving conditions and style."


https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...-oil-for-volkswagen-group-300277766.html

 

[JAG]

I would use a VW 504/507 oil or if I were afraid to not use a 508 oil, I would mix in some M1 20W-50 V-Twin motorcycle oil. I'd either make room by sucking some oil out or when room is made by oil consumption.

 

[Bjornviken]

move to 0w-40

 

[sloinker]

https://www.ravenol.de/produkte/verwendung/d/Product/show/p/ravenol-vse-sae-0w-2.html

 

[Vigg]

Originally Posted by 2004tdigls
I assume that the engine is still under warranty, submit the UOA to your local Audi Stealership and make a claim, 55 ppm Copper is ridiculous considering this is probably bearing material from the turbo

you can burn a lot of gas for 4%, a turbo on the other hand is thousands to replace


"1 In the required test PV1451 to pass the demanding VW specification VW 508 00/509 00, Castrol EDGE Professional LL IV FE 0W-20 gave more than 4% fuel economy benefit when compared to the test's 15W-40 reference oil. Actual results under road conditions may vary according to vehicle type, driving conditions and style."


https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...-oil-for-volkswagen-group-300277766.html


I would normally be concerned with that amount of Copper but this engine has an oil cooler on it. I have a Jeep GC with the 5.7 Hemi and it also has an oil cooler on it. With over 60k miles on the clock it still puts out 16-19 ppm of Copper ever 5k miles. I have seen a few other UOA for this motor and that amount of Copper on the FF seems to be normal.


Originally Posted by JAG
I would use a VW 504/507 oil or if I were afraid to not use a 508 oil, I would mix in some M1 20W-50 V-Twin motorcycle oil. I'd either make room by sucking some oil out or when room is made by oil consumption.


Someone on the Audi Forums is using a 504 and plans to get a UOA done but I don't think they will do it before I need to have this fill dumped and changed. Really leaning on the 504 spec.
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
move to 0w-40


Want to keep the warranty intact. Would love to run a 0W40 as its super cheap and available everywhere.
Originally Posted by sloinker
https://www.ravenol.de/produkte/verwendung/d/Product/show/p/ravenol-vse-sae-0w-2.html


I'm open to trying another brands 508 but at that point and price I may just go with a 504.

Anyone know anywhere in the Dallas area that stocks a 504 oil? I looked at O'reilly's, AutoZone, and Advanced Auto and no one has it on the shelves. I'm not opposed to ordering online but for some reason like to pick my oil up at a brick and mortar store.

 

[Gubkin]

For this engine use 5w-40 ACEA C3/MB 229.51

 

[Vigg]

Originally Posted by Gubkin
For this engine use 5w-40 ACEA C3/MB 229.51


I was playing on the Lubrizol oil spec tool and 229.51 looks like an excellent oil. Here's the thing if I didn't want to conform to warranty requirements (508 or 504) I would probably run PP Euro L. This is available at Walmart for under $23 a jug. It carries the approvals of Longlife-04, MS11106, Dexos2, MB229.31 and MB229.51.

Apparently 4-5 years ago the Euro L DID have the 504/507 spec to it then it didn't.... If it still had it I would run it and all my anxiety would be gone

 

[DuckRyder]

Couple points:

If this is Castrol 0/20 VW508 is Castrol EDGE Professional 0W20 Long Life IV which is not the same as just plain old Edge AFAIK.

I would proceed with caution, if it is worded anything like a VW manual it clearly says you may add no more than half a QT of another oil if 508 isn't available... there is certainly no wholesale license to run an oil other than 508, at least in a VW manual.

It is your car and your decision, but this is a real intrepid bunch round here with "I'd just run XXXX" when it is not their warranty at risk. I bet if they were actually in the situation over half of them wouldn't use what they say they would.

It looks like an ALS report, which I believe they condemn at 1.0 TBN - I don't see any thing overly concerning on this report for a young motor on its second change...

Ravenol VSE is going to be a while yet (several months) to the US upon my last contact with them.

 

[RayCJ]

According this place, https://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php, 508 has a lot of additives to extend lifetime. If I had to take a guess, they are spec'ing a 508 oil to be certain the oil holds up as long as the oil life monitor expects it to.

Ray

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted by DuckRyder
Couple points:

If this is Castrol 0/20 VW508 is Castrol EDGE Professional 0W20 Long Life IV which is not the same as just plain old Edge AFAIK.

I would proceed with caution, if it is worded anything like a VW manual it clearly says you may add no more than half a QT of another oil if 508 isn't available... there is certainly no wholesale license to run an oil other than 508, at least in a VW manual.

It is your car and your decision, but this is a real intrepid bunch round here with "I'd just run XXXX" when it is not their warranty at risk. I bet if they were actually in the situation over half of them wouldn't use what they say they would.

It looks like an ALS report, which I believe they condemn at 1.0 TBN - I don't see any thing overly concerning on this report for a young motor on its second change...

Ravenol VSE is going to be a while yet (several months) to the US upon my last contact with them.

You hit the nail on the head.

 

[Vigg]

Originally Posted by DuckRyder
Couple points:

If this is Castrol 0/20 VW508 is Castrol EDGE Professional 0W20 Long Life IV which is not the same as just plain old Edge AFAIK.

I would proceed with caution, if it is worded anything like a VW manual it clearly says you may add no more than half a QT of another oil if 508 isn't available... there is certainly no wholesale license to run an oil other than 508, at least in a VW manual.

It is your car and your decision, but this is a real intrepid bunch round here with "I'd just run XXXX" when it is not their warranty at risk. I bet if they were actually in the situation over half of them wouldn't use what they say they would.

It looks like an ALS report, which I believe they condemn at 1.0 TBN - I don't see any thing overly concerning on this report for a young motor on its second change...

Ravenol VSE is going to be a while yet (several months) to the US upon my last contact with them.

Very informative post thank you. Yes correct this is the Castrol EDGE Long Life IV and not the plain Jane black bottle EDGE.

This is the link to the "training document" for this motor. Its on page 26 of the document. You are correct that this information exist no where else including the owners manual.

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/56775065/ssp655-wg-en

I believe you are correct its just a young motor and is still breaking in. Engineers made this oil for a reason and I suppose I should trust them on this. I truly think this oil was developed for CAFE standards more then anything else though. I would hate for something to happen to this motor and it be a battle to get it fixed all because I used a 504 vs a 508. I suppose I will continue to run the 508

I completely agree with the part I bolded.
Originally Posted by RayCJ

According this place, https://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php, 508 has a lot of additives to extend lifetime. If I had to take a guess, they are spec'ing a 508 oil to be certain the oil holds up as long as the oil life monitor expects it to.

Ray


I hope they are correct. Having a TBN of 3.3 at 4.5k miles when its supposed to go 10k doesn't make me feel good. I know TBN is regressive depletion but I don't see it lasting 5.5k more miles.