2017 Audi A6 2.0T Premium plus AWD

[Gokhan]

Here is the partial additive pack of Mobil 1 x2 0W-20.

Code
BENZENAMINE, N-PHENYL-, REACTION PRODUCTS WITH 2,4,4-TRIMETHYLPENTENE 68411-46-1 5 - < 10% H316, H402, H412

BENZENE PROPANOIC ACID, 3,5-BIS(1,1-DIMETHYLETHYL)-4-HYDROXY-, C7-9 BRANCHED ALKYL ESTERS 125643-61-0 5 - < 10% H413

C14-16-18 ALKYL PHENOL CONFIDENTIAL 1 - < 5% H317, H373

CARBONIC ACID, CALCIUM SALT (1:1) 471-34-1 1 - < 5% None

ORGANO MOLY-SULFUR COMPLEX CONFIDENTIAL 0.1 - < 1% H315, H317, H402, H412

POLYISOBUTENYLSUCCINIC ANHYDRIDE 67762-77-0 1 - < 5% H413

BENZENE PROPANOIC ACID, 3,5-BIS(1,1-DIMETHYLETHYL)-4-HYDROXY-, C7-9 BRANCHED ALKYL ESTERS is an antioxidant, and it's used by many ExxonMobil oils.

http://www.oxirischemicals.com/en-us/Products-Solutions/IONOL-135-2

ExxonMobil oils listing CAS # 125643-61-0

POLYISOBUTENYLSUCCINIC ANHYDRIDE is a dispersant base, common in many oils. Others are detergents, surfactants, etc.

The point is that there are no magic ingredients in these Euro oils that are not found in ILSAC oils. It's the exact same ingredients in varying concentrations to comply with a given spec. You can find a quality oil complying to either ILSAC or Euro spec, and if you know you're getting a better base oil (such as with M1 EP and M1 AP), you know you can go for a longer OCI. Does that make a difference whether it's a GM TGDI engine or a VW TGDI engine when you select an oil? I don't think so, but the OEMs want to make you think so. If your vehicle is out of warranty, chances are that your engine won't notice the difference if you're running the dexos1 Gen 2 Super Tech 0W-20 vs. the M1 ESP x2 0W-20.

M1 ESP x2 0W-20 has 2.8% VII vs. M1 EP 0W-20 having 4.4% VII according to my estimates. Therefore, in that department M1 ESP x2 0W-20 clearly wins.

Estimated VII content and BO DV150 (base-oil viscosity at 150 °C = HTFS) of selected oils

Moreover, the phosphorus on M1 ESP x2 0W-20 is likely 900 ppm because it's certified for API SL only. Therefore, the ZDDP content is probably the main intended difference between the ACEA/Euro-OEM 0W-20 oils and the ILSAC/GM dexos1 0W-20 oils, and that is why they tend to be mutually exclusive.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by edyvw
What VW has to do with MB M271?

Do you homework before you claim to know about Euro oils.

MB M271 test is used in VW 501.00, 502.00, and 504.00. Many Euro OEMs use other OEMs' engine tests in their specs.

I worked on VW504.00/507.00 testing. It is NOT used!

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by edyvw
Why I do not use VW504.00? Sulfur in gas.

You just said VW 504.00 superseded VW 502.00. Now, you have contradicted that statement.


To claim something like this and at the same time claim you actually know something about oils and specifications is astonishing. This goes on par with your statement about Mobil1 0W40 SM and FS.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Trav
Quote
your best bet is to look for an oil with the lowest Noack and a reputed OEM approval such as GM dexos1, MB, or VW,
What happened to run Supertech 0w20 in the VW?

Super Tech 0W-20 = GM dexos1 Gen 2

Originally Posted by Trav
Quote
It's not unexpected for a premium ILSAC oil -- say, Mobil 1 Extended Performance -- to easily exceed the performance of the strictest Euro-OEM specs.
Sorry but you sound like an Amsoil commercial with that sort of statement. It may meet the spec but didn't bother to prove it and get the approval so we have to take their word for it. It either has approvals or it doesn't.

They don't bother to get them certified for the Euro specs because they are not aimed for the European markets. It costs a fortune to have an oil certified for different specs.

The GM dexos1 Gen 2 Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 and Mobil 1 Annual Protection 0W-20 list 60 - 70% PAO vs. the Mobil 1 ESP x2 0W-20 with Euro specs listing 20 - 30% PAO and 50 - 60% GTL. You can call it the Amsoil syndrome, but I think the Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 and Mobil 1 Annual Protection 0W-20 are better oils.

Originally Posted by Trav
That enough of this, it is getting kind of pointless.

Agreed!

I actually posted several years back receipt from VW how much it costs! Stop making stuff up!

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

The question that has not been answered is how much more engine life someone will see out of 0w40 FS vs 5w30 ESP. Then even if there is a significant difference (say more than 5%) is that difference enough when you consider other problem areas such as increased emissions, valve cleaning, possibly worse fuel mileage and/or power due to carbon buildup, possibly having to replace emissions components (cats, egr etc)...

I think the answer is obvious. I also find it interesting that 0w40 ESP was recommended for the Corvette when 0w40 FS already exists.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
The question that has not been answered is how much more engine life someone will see out of 0w40 FS vs 5w30 ESP. Then even if there is a significant difference (say more than 5%) is that difference enough when you consider other problem areas such as increased emissions, valve cleaning, possibly worse fuel mileage and/or power due to carbon buildup, possibly having to replace emissions components (cats, egr etc)...

I think the answer is obvious. I also find it interesting that 0w40 ESP was recommended for the Corvette when 0w40 FS already exists.

Every topic that he parachutes in turns into this where he is giving these snake oil advices.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Every topic that he parachutes in turns into this where he is giving these snake oil advices.

he = edyvw

To list a few...

Like recommending VW 502.00 instead of VW 504.00 because of high sulfur in US gasoline, even though US has effectively the same 10 ppm sulfur level in gasoline as in Europe now.

Like claiming that European engines are immune to LSPI, even though VW is implementing an LSPI test in their latest specs.

Like claiming that the oil is a "Band-Aid" for the LSPI, even though it's well-documented that the oil is the source of the LSPI.

Like claiming that VW doesn't also use other OEM's engine tests in their specs, even though sources document it otherwise, and this is standard operating procedure for all OEMs.

Like claiming that any European-OEM oil is always better than any ILSAC oil.

By the way Jimmy_Russells was asking a legitimate question when you replied to him with your rant.

 

[NuttCase]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Trav
Quote
your best bet is to look for an oil with the lowest Noack and a reputed OEM approval such as GM dexos1, MB, or VW,
What happened to run Supertech 0w20 in the VW?

Super Tech 0W-20 = GM dexos1 Gen 2

Originally Posted by Trav
Quote
It's not unexpected for a premium ILSAC oil -- say, Mobil 1 Extended Performance -- to easily exceed the performance of the strictest Euro-OEM specs.
Sorry but you sound like an Amsoil commercial with that sort of statement. It may meet the spec but didn't bother to prove it and get the approval so we have to take their word for it. It either has approvals or it doesn't.

They don't bother to get them certified for the Euro specs because they are not aimed for the European markets. It costs a fortune to have an oil certified for different specs.

The GM dexos1 Gen 2 Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 and Mobil 1 Annual Protection 0W-20 list 60 - 70% PAO vs. the Mobil 1 ESP x2 0W-20 with Euro specs listing 20 - 30% PAO and 50 - 60% GTL. You can call it the Amsoil syndrome, but I think the Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 and Mobil 1 Annual Protection 0W-20 are better oils.

Originally Posted by Trav
That enough of this, it is getting kind of pointless.

Agreed!

I actually posted several years back receipt from VW how much it costs! Stop making stuff up!


The cost of the certification may be relatively low, but the cost of conducting all the tests to support the application is indeed high - well into the hundreds of thousands Euros as published by Infineum in a newsletter many years ago. You can't conduct a 650 hour RNT wear test for $5000.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by NuttCase
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Trav
Quote
your best bet is to look for an oil with the lowest Noack and a reputed OEM approval such as GM dexos1, MB, or VW,
What happened to run Supertech 0w20 in the VW?

Super Tech 0W-20 = GM dexos1 Gen 2

Originally Posted by Trav
Quote
It's not unexpected for a premium ILSAC oil -- say, Mobil 1 Extended Performance -- to easily exceed the performance of the strictest Euro-OEM specs.
Sorry but you sound like an Amsoil commercial with that sort of statement. It may meet the spec but didn't bother to prove it and get the approval so we have to take their word for it. It either has approvals or it doesn't.

They don't bother to get them certified for the Euro specs because they are not aimed for the European markets. It costs a fortune to have an oil certified for different specs.

The GM dexos1 Gen 2 Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 and Mobil 1 Annual Protection 0W-20 list 60 - 70% PAO vs. the Mobil 1 ESP x2 0W-20 with Euro specs listing 20 - 30% PAO and 50 - 60% GTL. You can call it the Amsoil syndrome, but I think the Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 and Mobil 1 Annual Protection 0W-20 are better oils.

Originally Posted by Trav
That enough of this, it is getting kind of pointless.

Agreed!

I actually posted several years back receipt from VW how much it costs! Stop making stuff up!


The cost of the certification may be relatively low, but the cost of conducting all the tests to support the application is indeed high - well into the hundreds of thousands Euros as published by Infineum in a newsletter many years ago. You can't conduct a 650 hour RNT wear test for $5000.

No, what he said is that Supertech could be used, but they do not want to get approval bcs. of price. That implies that it is not R&D that is concern, it is price of an approval. That implies that developers of Supertech know that their oil is OK, but tehy do not want to get approval bcs. of price.
R&D of course is expensive, for ANY oil, approval or not.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by edyvw
Every topic that he parachutes in turns into this where he is giving these snake oil advices.

he = edyvw

To list a few...

Like recommending VW 502.00 instead of VW 504.00 because of high sulfur in US gasoline, even though US has effectively the same 10 ppm sulfur level in gasoline as in Europe now.

Like claiming that European engines are immune to LSPI, even though VW is implementing an LSPI test in their latest specs.

Like claiming that the oil is a "Band-Aid" for the LSPI, even though it's well-documented that the oil is the source of the LSPI.

Like claiming that VW doesn't also use other OEM's engine tests in their specs, even though sources document it otherwise, and this is standard operating procedure for all OEMs.

Like claiming that any European-OEM oil is always better than any ILSAC oil.

By the way Jimmy_Russells was asking a legitimate question when you replied to him with your rant.

I stand behind all those statements.
I do not "forget" about recommending Supertech, forgetting about ZDDP, not knowing difference between Mobil1 SM and SN etc.
You lost your way here. Stick to Corolla and TGMO.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
The question that has not been answered is how much more engine life someone will see out of 0w40 FS vs 5w30 ESP. Then even if there is a significant difference (say more than 5%) is that difference enough when you consider other problem areas such as increased emissions, valve cleaning, possibly worse fuel mileage and/or power due to carbon buildup, possibly having to replace emissions components (cats, egr etc)...

I think the answer is obvious. I also find it interesting that 0w40 ESP was recommended for the Corvette when 0w40 FS already exists.

No US or Japanese OEM would recommend a full-SAPS (FS) oil because of emission-components concerns.

Both Castrol 0W-40 A3/B4 and M1 FS 0W-40 A3/B4 -- full-SAPS oils -- have significantly higher-quality base oils and significantly higher TBN than M1 ESP, which means you can do a significantly longer OCI with them than you can do with M1 ESP, despite what the OEM claims about VW 504.00.

However, you will see a faster accumulation of ash intake-valve deposits (IVD) with these full-SAPS oils.

I would think these two full-SAPS oils would show slightly less wear in a conservative OCI, but the difference wouldn't be significant. For extended OCIs they would show significantly less wear because of the higher TBN.

M1 ESP costs twice as much.

It's up to you to weigh the advantages and disadvantages. If your OCI length is conservative and the oil-change cost is not a concern, M1 ESP could be a better choice. For extended OCIs the two full-SAPS oils may be a better choice.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
The question that has not been answered is how much more engine life someone will see out of 0w40 FS vs 5w30 ESP. Then even if there is a significant difference (say more than 5%) is that difference enough when you consider other problem areas such as increased emissions, valve cleaning, possibly worse fuel mileage and/or power due to carbon buildup, possibly having to replace emissions components (cats, egr etc)...

I think the answer is obvious. I also find it interesting that 0w40 ESP was recommended for the Corvette when 0w40 FS already exists.

]No US or Japanese OEM would recommend a full-SAPS (FS) oil because of emission-components concerns.

Both Castrol 0W-40 A3/B4 and M1 FS 0W-40 A3/B4 -- full-SAPS oils -- have significantly higher-quality base oils and significantly higher TBN than M1 ESP, which means you can do a significantly longer OCI with them than you can do with M1 ESP, despite what the OEM claims about VW 504.00.

However, you will see a faster accumulation of ash intake-valve deposits (IVD) with these full-SAPS oils.

I would think these two full-SAPS oils would show slightly less wear in a conservative OCI, but the difference wouldn't be significant. For extended OCIs they would show significantly less wear because of the higher TBN.

M1 ESP costs twice as much.

It's up to you to weigh the advantages and disadvantages. If your OCI length is conservative and the oil-change cost is not a concern, M1 ESP could be a better choice. For extended OCIs the two full-SAPS oils may be a better choice.

Gokhan trying to tell us what everyone knows, and then still manages to miss it.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

I guess things are different down there but up here ESP is maybe 10% more expensive, if that. Two to three bucks a jug.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
I guess things are different down there but up here ESP is maybe 10% more expensive, if that. Two to three bucks a jug.

Here 0W40 M1 or Castrol 0W40, Pennzoil Platinum Euro L, Castrol Edge 5W40 are available cheap in Wal Mart. It is economics of scale, branding etc.
Tomorrow if Mid-SAPS oils become more sought after, ESP will be available for same price as 0W40 in Wal mart.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by edyvw
I stand behind all those statements.
I do not "forget" about recommending Supertech, forgetting about ZDDP, not knowing difference between Mobil1 SM and SN etc.
You lost your way here. Stick to Corolla and TGMO.

It's your choice if you do not want to educate yourself but want to stand by your statements misconceptions.

There is nothing wrong with running a GM dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 0W-20 in an engine that calls a Euro-OEM-spec 0W-20 if it is out of warranty. If you like, you can make ridiculously false statements about me forgetting about ZDDP and not knowing about the Mobil 1 SM - SN transition -- with you it wouldn't surprise me if you claimed that I forgot or didn't know my own name.

The Corolla was gone in a wreck last summer, along with the M1 EP 0W-20 fill I was going to do a UOA on. The current ride is a 2020 Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid with a Japanese TGMO 0W-16 factory fill.

Originally Posted by edyvw
Gokhan trying to tell us what everyone knows, and then still manages to miss it.

Whatever that means.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by edyvw
I stand behind all those statements.
I do not "forget" about recommending Supertech, forgetting about ZDDP, not knowing difference between Mobil1 SM and SN etc.
You lost your way here. Stick to Corolla and TGMO.

It's your choice if you do not want to educate yourself but want to stand by your statements misconceptions.

There is nothing wrong with running a GM dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 0W-20 in an engine that calls a Euro-OEM-spec 0W-20 if it is out of warranty. If you like, you can make ridiculously false statements about me forgetting about ZDDP and not knowing about the Mobil 1 SM - SN transition -- with you it wouldn't surprise me if you claimed that I forgot or didn't know my own name.

The Corolla was gone in a wreck last summer, along with the M1 EP 0W-20 fill I was going to do a UOA on. The current ride is a 2020 Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid with a Japanese TGMO 0W-16 factory fill.

Originally Posted by edyvw
Gokhan trying to tell us what everyone knows, and then still manages to miss it.

Whatever that means.

It means you wrote post to a guy who knows what you implying, and yet, managed to insert bunch of incorrect stuff.
I correct myself, stick to Prius.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by edyvw
It means you wrote post to a guy who knows what you implying, and yet, managed to insert bunch of incorrect stuff.

I don't know know how much of it he knew or didn't. What I know is if he knew everything, he wouldn't ask a question. The "stuff" is only incorrect in your false own opinion.

Originally Posted by edyvw
I correct myself, stick to Prius.

It's a Prius Prime, which is a plug-in hybrid. Absolutely! I love it. I get 65 - 70 mpg on gasoline. It runs on electricity for 25 - 40 miles as well. It has the unsurpassed reliability of Toyota, all the convenient features, and super-low maintenance costs. It's not to mention I got $7,000 in various credits. It's as good as it gets when it comes to environmental friendliness and convenience!

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by edyvw
It means you wrote post to a guy who knows what you implying, and yet, managed to insert bunch of incorrect stuff.

I don't know know how much of it he knew or didn't. What I know is that if he knew everything, he wouldn't ask a question. The "stuff" is only incorrect in your false own opinion.

Originally Posted by edyvw
I correct myself, stick to Prius.

It's a Prius Prime, which is a plug-in hybrid. Absolutely! I love it. I get 65 - 70 mpg on gasoline. It runs on electricity for 25 - 40 miles as well. It has the unsurpassed reliability of Toyota, all the convenient features, and super-low maintenance costs. It's not to mention I got $7,000 in various credits. It's as good as it gets when it comes to environmental friendliness and convenience!

As usual, when it comes to anyone's question or statement, you really cannot read "internet" sarcasm.
Is that Prius going on Mobil1 SM FS or SN FS?

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by edyvw
As usual, when it comes to anyone's question or statement, you really cannot read "internet" sarcasm.
Is that Prius going on Mobil1 SM FS or SN FS?

Again, whatever. You've gone beyond bizarre and/or childish, and your posts have become completely ridiculous. There is no point in trying to engage you in an intelligent discussion.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by edyvw
As usual, when it comes to anyone's question or statement, you really cannot read "internet" sarcasm.
Is that Prius going on Mobil1 SM FS or SN FS?

Again, whatever. You've gone beyond bizarre and/or childish, and your posts have become completely ridiculous. There is no point in trying to engage you in an intelligent discussion.

Then stop giving advices like: use Supertech 0W20. Or, VW recommends 0W20 and 5W40. etc, etc.
Someone might actually take you seriously.