2016 Audi S4 Third UOA Motul 8100 X-Cess 5w40

[CrazyJeeper]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: CrazyJeeper
Good to know. Thanks for the info.

No problem. I'm sure your engine will be happy with any of the three mentioned here (Castrol, Mobil, Motul) with consistent ~6-8k OCIs. All are great products. But it's in our nature as BITOGers to experiment, so I totally get it.


Maybe sometime next year, I'll be going to Stage 1 from EPL Tune so we'll see what it does to the numbers. I'll probably never go to Stage 2 considering it's a slippery slope with mods and durability at that point.

 

[gryffinwings]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Please let us know how much PAO. Would not make a dime at Walmart prices if very much.


According to this U.S. SDS which was published March 2017, it is 50-75% PAO.

I don't understand what your talking about I don't see PAO listed as 50-75% in Castrol oil, the only 50-75% I see is this:

Pentadecane, 7-methylene-, mixed with 1-tetradecene, dimers and trimers,
hydrogenated.

Is that what you are referring to, if it is, I have no idea since I do not have a degree in Chemistry.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: gryffinwings
I don't understand what your talking about I don't see PAO listed as 50-75% in Castrol oil, the only 50-75% I see is this:

Pentadecane, 7-methylene-, mixed with 1-tetradecene, dimers and trimers,
hydrogenated.

Is that what you are referring to, if it is, I have no idea since I do not have a degree in Chemistry.


You don't need a degree in chemistry to determine it is a polyalphaolefin.

 

[gryffinwings]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: gryffinwings
I don't understand what your talking about I don't see PAO listed as 50-75% in Castrol oil, the only 50-75% I see is this:

Pentadecane, 7-methylene-, mixed with 1-tetradecene, dimers and trimers,
hydrogenated.

Is that what you are referring to, if it is, I have no idea since I do not have a degree in Chemistry.


You don't need a degree in chemistry to determine it is a polyalphaolefin.


Ok, I was exagerating a bit, but I would like to know how you determine that it's PAO? I've tried a bit of searching and I'm not finding what I am looking for.

 

[1JZ_E46]

It is an alkane (saturated CnH2n+2) and alkene (unsaturated CnH2n) combination of higher carbon chain penta-decANE (C15H32) and tetra-decENE (C14H28). They are monomers derived from ethylene, which is the feedstock used to produce PAO. Usually you see decene/ane and dodecene/ane as the PAO molecule, which is C10 and C12, respectively. Penta and Tetra are just longer carbon chain (which I think means higher viscosity?) derivations.

 

[gryffinwings]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
It is an alkane (saturated CnH2n+2) and alkene (unsaturated CnH2n) combination of higher carbon chain penta-decANE (C15H32) and tetra-decENE (C14H28). They are monomers derived from ethylene, which is the feedstock used to produce PAO. Usually you see decene/ane and dodecene/ane as the PAO molecule, which is C10 and C12, respectively. Penta and Tetra are just longer carbon chain (which I think means higher viscosity?) derivations.


Thank you very much for this information

This is in the SDS for Mobil 1 10w30 High Mileage that I'm currently using in my old 87 Honda CRX Si. Am I correct in that this is a type of PAO with a 1-5% content in the oil I am using?

1-DECENE, HOMOPOLYMER HYDROGENATED
68037-01-4
1 - < 5%
H304

 

[1JZ_E46]

Yes that's PAO. But SDS are limited in that they are sort of one directional. They can tell you what's in an oil, but just because something isn't listed doesn't mean it doesn't have any PAO or other Group IV. mPAO (an advanced PAO) and ester basestocks for example are not considered hazardous and therefore not listed.

 

[gryffinwings]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Yes that's PAO. But SDS are limited in that they are sort of one directional. They can tell you what's in an oil, but just because something isn't listed doesn't mean it doesn't have any PAO or other Group IV. mPAO (an advanced PAO) and ester basestocks for example are not considered hazardous and therefore not listed.


Thanks for the information

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I see a huge waste of $$. UOA's on engines with this mileage and ridiculously short interval are about as useful as [censored].

If anything you're causing accelerated wear by changing so often.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
I see a huge waste of $$. UOA's on engines with this mileage and ridiculously short interval are about as useful as [censored]

If anything you're causing accelerated wear by changing so often.


One man's opinion. Simmer down now bud. Nothing wrong with UOAs or shorter intervals.

 

[CrazyJeeper]

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
If anything you're causing accelerated wear by changing so often.


In a perfect world, with perfect driving conditions as envisioned by the EPA, sure, but I don't drive in normal driving conditions. With my short commute to work and my occasional spirited drive in the canyons, I've deviated away from the norm.

If anything, going by the manufactured oil change interval, I probably would be causing accelerated wear. Settle down, the sky's not falling.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
I see a huge waste of $$. UOA's on engines with this mileage and ridiculously short interval are about as useful as [censored]

If anything you're causing accelerated wear by changing so often.


One man's opinion. Simmer down now bud. Nothing wrong with UOAs or shorter intervals.


IMO there's a lot wrong with short interval UOA's on new factory engines because it's not at all useful when making a decision on what oil to use and for how long. I'm surprised after all these years people on BITOG still fawn over these things.

 

[CrazyJeeper]

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
I see a huge waste of $$. UOA's on engines with this mileage and ridiculously short interval are about as useful as [censored]

If anything you're causing accelerated wear by changing so often.


One man's opinion. Simmer down now bud. Nothing wrong with UOAs or shorter intervals.


IMO there's a lot wrong with short interval UOA's on new factory engines because it's not at all useful when making a decision on what oil to use and for how long. I'm surprised after all these years people on BITOG still fawn over these things.


What's wrong then? I'm not trying to be a smarty pant, but where's your data to prove otherwise? My data is that the city driving I do may be constituted as "severe driving conditions". For the oil I was using (Motul X-cess 8100) and as stout and highly regarded as it is, it can't be any more black & white to see that it took a beating by the numbers represented on my UOA. I'm sure there are people out there who are still on the permanent 3,000 mile oil change because that's what was burned into our mind, and I'm sure their engines are wearing just fine. There's just too many variables at play here, but hey, different strokes for different folks.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: CrazyJeeper
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
I see a huge waste of $$. UOA's on engines with this mileage and ridiculously short interval are about as useful as [censored]

If anything you're causing accelerated wear by changing so often.


One man's opinion. Simmer down now bud. Nothing wrong with UOAs or shorter intervals.


IMO there's a lot wrong with short interval UOA's on new factory engines because it's not at all useful when making a decision on what oil to use and for how long. I'm surprised after all these years people on BITOG still fawn over these things.


What's wrong then? I'm not trying to be a smarty pant, but where's your data to prove otherwise? My data is that the city driving I do may be constituted as "severe driving conditions". For the oil I was using (Motul X-cess 8100) and as stout and highly regarded as it is, it can't be any more black & white to see that it took a beating by the numbers represented on my UOA. I'm sure there are people out there who are still on the permanent 3,000 mile oil change because that's what was burned into our mind, and I'm sure their engines are wearing just fine. There's just too many variables at play here, but hey, different strokes for different folks.


https://bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis-how-to-decide-what-is-normal/

 

[CrazyJeeper]

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

https://bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis-how-to-decide-what-is-normal/


That's a small sample of engines with who knows what the driving conditions were like. Last sentence in implying that there is no right or wrong answer, it's up to the end user to determine what is normal. "I hope this enables you to view your UOA data under a new light, allowing the ability to determine what is “normal” and what is “better” in proper context."

What's wrong with experimenting, isn't that the whole point of a UOA?

 

[1JZ_E46]

Some people are just prone to getting aggravated when other people don't do things the way they believe they should be done. See it all the time on forums.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Some people are just prone to getting aggravated when other people don't do things the way they believe they should be done. See it all the time on forums.


I didn't say he shouldn't do the UOA. I just said the results are meaningless. If someone is going to post a UOA along with their opinion of the results there should be no expectation that everyone will agree. It's great business for Blackstone et al. That's for sure.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: CrazyJeeper
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

https://bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis-how-to-decide-what-is-normal/




What's wrong with experimenting, isn't that the whole point of a UOA?



No

 

[CrazyJeeper]

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

I didn't say he shouldn't do the UOA. I just said the results are meaningless. If someone is going to post a UOA along with their opinion of the results there should be no expectation that everyone will agree. It's great business for Blackstone et al. That's for sure.


Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
No

 

[CrazyJeeper]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: CrazyJeeper
Good to know. Thanks for the info.

No problem. I'm sure your engine will be happy with any of the three mentioned here (Castrol, Mobil, Motul) with consistent ~6-8k OCIs. All are great products. But it's in our nature as BITOGers to experiment, so I totally get it.


Decided to go with the Castro Edge 0w-40 a shot. So far, all seems fine and dandy. No strange or funky noises at startup. In about 6 months, I will report back.