2015 Ford F250 6.7 PSD - 134K miles on Delo 400 LE 5W40

dnewton3

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My last 3 OCI were roughly 20K miles with one being 24K miles. Yet this OCI at 20K had fuel dilution around double of the prior two OCI. What would cause this?
Not sure. You did mention that some programming updates were done by Ford dealer, right? Maybe that changed something? Your fuel has gone up, relative to the OCI duration. If all other things are held equal (driving pattern, environment, loads, etc), then either the recall update had something to do with it, or you've got a leaking injector perhaps? Nothing to panic over yet, but I'd keep an eye on the fuel. Perhaps take a sample (not chainge oil, but sample oil) at 5k and then 10k miles and see what's going on? Maybe look into getting a Fumoto (or other brand) valve and sample a bit more often until you get the rising fuel issue identified.
 
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Very unlikely you have an injector problem. The ECM is very good at telling you if there is a balance rate problem. So if you have no drivability concerns, visible smoke or CEL, I would not worry about it. Lots of factors can contribute to fuel dilution.
This. Not gonna solve the fuel dilution problem on that year 6.7. That's why bypass system not a real advantage for that engine.
 

Donald

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This. Not gonna solve the fuel dilution problem on that year 6.7. That's why bypass system not a real advantage for that engine.
Not sure what you mean by the bypass system is not a real advantage? Are you saying the engine will not last long enough to justify the bypass system. I assume you mean the bypass oil filter I have installed?
 
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He means the oil bypass system is not worth the cost, in his opinion
 

dnewton3

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Not sure what you mean by the bypass system is not a real advantage? Are you saying the engine will not last long enough to justify the bypass system. I assume you mean the bypass oil filter I have installed?
Oil bypass filtration systems are not a means to extend engine life; rather they are a tool to extend OCIs. And because traditional media BP systems have no effect on fuel dilution, they won't gain any advantage for you if dilution is the condemnation issue for the OCI.
 
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Donald

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Oil bypass filtration systems are not a means to extend engine life; rather they are a tool to extend OCIs. And because traditional media BP systems have no effect on fuel dilution, they won't gain any advantage for you if dilution is the condemnation issue for the OCI.
In your view what percentages condemn diesel engine oil for fuel, soot, iron?
 
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dnewton3

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Generally I view condemnation of the lube to occur when the wear rates of metals would excalate past a "normal" trend. To do so, you have to know the macro data trending of your equipment, and also it helps to know your micro data trends.

The inputs you inquire about (fuel and soot), are to be looked at in context of the overall equipment health history. If your engine routinely turns in good UOAs even though the fuel is at 4% or less, then there's no reason to condemn the lube. If 3% fuel often shows wear metal trends typically escalating in an agressive manner, then that would be a trigger.

The key to understand is that if the inputs are changing, it's only a trigger to continue monitoring, albiet a bit closer (UOA more often, perhaps). If the inputs are changing in an undesirable manner AND the wear rates are changing in an undesirable manner, it's time to plan an OCI. But even then, you want to understand the RATE at which the change is occuring. If the wear rate of Fe is typically around 2.2ppm/1k miles for your engine, and it rises up to 2.6ppm/1k miles, that would not be a panic moment. However, if the wear rate doubled to 4.4ppm/1k miles, then I'd OCI.

We've seen many, many folks do an OCI when their base/acid inversion happens; that's been a typical historical trigger for many folks. However, when the metal wear rates are either steady or even dropping, why change oil simply because the TAN usurped the TBN?

Inputs should not be, in and of themselves, a trigger for an OCI. They should be a trigger to pay closer attention to the wear rates of the metals.

NOTE: I will conceed that if an input goes way, way out of normal bounds very quickly, an OCI is warranted immediately, but one should ALSO go find out why the input spiked (leaking injector, void in the air filter system, coolant loss that is not ending up on the floor but inside the crankcase, missing cover or plug, etc ....)
 
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Oil bypass filtration systems are not a means to extend engine life; rather they are a tool to extend OCIs. And because traditional media BP systems have no effect on fuel dilution, they won't gain any advantage for you if dilution is the condemnation issue for the OCI.
Yes, this is what I was trying to say. He said it better.
 
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Generally I view condemnation of the lube to occur when the wear rates of metals would excalate past a "normal" trend. To do so, you have to know the macro data trending of your equipment, and also it helps to know your micro data trends.

The inputs you inquire about (fuel and soot), are to be looked at in context of the overall equipment health history. If your engine routinely turns in good UOAs even though the fuel is at 4% or less, then there's no reason to condemn the lube. If 3% fuel often shows wear metal trends typically escalating in an agressive manner, then that would be a trigger.

The key to understand is that if the inputs are changing, it's only a trigger to continue monitoring, albiet a bit closer (UOA more often, perhaps). If the inputs are changing in an undesirable manner AND the wear rates are changing in an undesirable manner, it's time to plan an OCI. But even then, you want to understand the RATE at which the change is occuring. If the wear rate of Fe is typically around 2.2ppm/1k miles for your engine, and it rises up to 2.6ppm/1k miles, that would not be a panic moment. However, if the wear rate doubled to 4.4ppm/1k miles, then I'd OCI.

We've seen many, many folks do an OCI when their base/acid inversion happens; that's been a typical historical trigger for many folks. However, when the metal wear rates are either steady or even dropping, why change oil simply because the TAN usurped the TBN?

Inputs should not be, in and of themselves, a trigger for an OCI. They should be a trigger to pay closer attention to the wear rates of the metals.

NOTE: I will conceed that if an input goes way, way out of normal bounds very quickly, an OCI is warranted immediately, but one should ALSO go find out why the input spiked (leaking injector, void in the air filter system, coolant loss that is not ending up on the floor but inside the crankcase, missing cover or plug, etc ....)
Good insight! I think this post should be a sticky in the UOA section.

Just my $0.02
 

Donald

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The wear metals are staying nicely trimmed out; nothing but good news there. The Fe is fairly steady at less than 2ppm/1k miles, and the others (Al, Cu, Pb, Cr) are all low enough to be noise essentially.

The fuel is something to watch. In and of itself, the fuel isn't a problem; it doesn't hurt the engine obviously. What it does to the lube can cause issues when it's elevated past a point where it affects wear rates. We all know this. Fuel at or below 5% isn't a reason to change oil; it's a reason to monitor the lube more closely (perhaps UOA every 10k miles) and make sure the wear rates are not being adversely affected.

Fuel in the lube is no different than acid in the lube. These are things to watch for and not automatic reasons to condemn the lube. They are tell-tale signs which are predictors of potential for changes in wear trends. They are NOT reasons to automatically change lube.

I agree. But to figure this out, one would need to perform several UOAs
 
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