2015 BMW M4

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Meh I don't understand the point of all those turbo's, throttle response? Seems like they could simplify things and acheive the same thing with a single variable vane turbo...or just do what BMW does best and build a sublime NA I6 that revs to the sky and sounds amazing.



Dont understand? Ever heard of CAFE?

Need smaller engines, more volumetrically efficient, less fuel use just for normal tooling around... Satisfies those profiles better than some big thirsty engine, yet gives torque profiles more like those big engines.

Not everyone wants some ridiculous overpowered and overengined car like a C63. Bad news for most peoples' economics. This country has more or less a negative savings rate, even amongst most BMW and MB buyers. But most want something that has some level of "go", despite how little anyone actually needs more than about 130-150hp to drive themself around.

 

[hattaresguy]

True but we are talking about low production specialty cars here and the M4/3 is the direct competitor to the C63.

M vs AMG


Not Toyota Camry's.

 

[JHZR2]

Agreed, but IMO the reality is that smaller forced induction engines are here to stay across all lines. The cruze Eco engine and ford ecoboost 3 cyl will become the norm, IMO.

Plus I'll bet that BMW sells more specialty vehicles as a percentage of all cars sold (in NA) than most other manufacturers.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2

Plus I'll bet that BMW sells more specialty vehicles as a percentage of all cars sold (in NA) than most other manufacturers.


There were tens of thousands of E9x M3s sold. Not as exclusive as it once was. I see M3s everywhere.

 

[hattaresguy]

BMW does more with the smaller cars, AMG owns the big car market.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Agreed, but IMO the reality is that smaller forced induction engines are here to stay across all lines. The cruze Eco engine and ford ecoboost 3 cyl will become the norm, IMO.

Plus I'll bet that BMW sells more specialty vehicles as a percentage of all cars sold (in NA) than most other manufacturers.


True but when you start to deal with specialty low production models you can do whatever you want.

They make their money selling base cars with some cosmetic stuff added.

 

[JHZR2]

Yet none of their offerings was an MPG leader. There is no cruze, fiesta, 3, civic, yaris, etc. to fill the roles. And as dparm noted, they arent as onezie-twozie as they used to be. More and more proportionally of these "specialty" ///M cars. How is one supposed to hit CAFE?

Perhaps by selling minis? Does that lift the BMW AG overall mileage?

Still, a 29 MPG 128i or 328i isnt going to help them hit CAFE and miss big dollar outlays in the long run. Low overall volumes compared to the majors, and a high proportion of low MPG vehicles means that they need to squeeze out where they can.

Since they dont seem willing to bring 118i, 120d, 318i, 320d, 518i, etc. type cars over here, they are going to have to go a different route.

 

[hattaresguy]

I can't speak to the competition but Mercedes and Audi are sticking a high MPG diesel in everything.

 

[JHZR2]

Yeah but let's see numbers. Will the C300 and some 2.0T version of the audi cars still be the car sold in masses?

BMW also seems to be putting a diesel out there (and they had last gen with the 335d), but does not mean that the numbers will be there...

Ill believe that when I see it, and I do have high hopes! Ive been driving MB diesels since nearly the start of my driving experience.

 

[dparm]

I would guess that their slim diesel offerings along with the Minis are what keeps them in check with CAFE. They're certainly no Honda/Toyota/Hyundai that is just way ahead of the minimums.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Yeah but let's see numbers. Will the C300 and some 2.0T version of the audi cars still be the car sold in masses?



Audi squeezes good mileage out of the 2.0TFSI by using a CVT ("Multitronic"). The C300 isn't even a 3.0L like the name would suggest.

Those are certainly their bread-and-butter cars. I'm sure that the 2.0TFSI-powered A4 outsells the 3.0TFSI-powered S4 10:1. Same could be said for the C300 and the C63...maybe even 20:1.

 

[JHZR2]

Agreed. Still, back to my basic premise - as CAFE requirements increase, these guys need to up everything, even the specialty cars, because guzzler taxes and whatnot wont help enough to get around that 54MPG or whatever the number is... And that's why I think they are pushing this stuff even into "specialty" variants...

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Yeah but let's see numbers. Will the C300 and some 2.0T version of the audi cars still be the car sold in masses?

BMW also seems to be putting a diesel out there (and they had last gen with the 335d), but does not mean that the numbers will be there...

Ill believe that when I see it, and I do have high hopes! Ive been driving MB diesels since nearly the start of my driving experience.


We will see, I suspect the new E250CDI or whatever its called is going to be the new lease special over the V6 gas.

Audi is starting to do that with the A8, you can get a diesel one for the same price as a gas V6 one, the V8 goes for a lot more.

BMW's volume seller is the 528XI with the 4 banger which does pretty good.

Follow the lease promotions to see what model they are trying to push to keep those CAFE ratings up. They need to sell enough high MPG vehicles so they can still sell a few monsters that inhale fuel.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Hermann
What the heck ever happened to simple.

1. People don't want engines that they have to rev to get power out of.

2. The SUV craze ruined fuel economy and emissions averages, and forced ALL cars to be bigger and heavier for crash compatibility. That means engineers have to do crazy things to keep upping the horsepower ante while improving fuel economy, even on cars that aren't built with the everyday commuter in mind. If there were a lot fewer big vehicles on the road, little or none of this would be necessary.


what would you want separate roads for commercial traffic?


The return of rail would be nice

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: jrustles
I don't think there are enough turbos. Maybe they should have one or two for each cylinder. Yeah, a twin compressor sequential turbo for each cylinder is more the German way

They Veyron had quad turbos

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
The return of rail would be nice

But only if someone will use it. Historically in the US that is a bit of a problem.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: jrustles
I don't think there are enough turbos. Maybe they should have one or two for each cylinder. Yeah, a twin compressor sequential turbo for each cylinder is more the German way

They Veyron had quad turbos

Absolute auto porn of the highest caliber! I could drool for hours...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
The return of rail would be nice

But only if someone will use it. Historically in the US that is a bit of a problem.


Yeah, we've had a push for it (for the movement of people, similar to Europe) for it up here recently. Our town was supposed to get a "GO TRAIN" station and the service extended from Oshawa to our location at least two years ago. Was the promise of our MP back then, and is still an "in the works" situation, with no visible progress that I can see.

I don't know what moron back in the late 80's thought it would be bright to rip up tens of thousands of kilometers of track up here because fuel was cheap, leveraging JIT delivery appeared to be the wave of the future and transport trucks were the "in vogue" thing. We lost, overnight, millions upon millions of dollars in usable infrastructure that allowed delivery to an absolutely obscene number of central locations by rail. We had many tracks running right through my town.

Now that fuel prices are ridiculous and the cost to operate OTR trucks has gone through the roof, not to mention the havoc we've discovered that they wreak on our roads, the damage they cause in accidents....etc rail is suddenly appealing again. And would have been easy to switch back to had somebody not had absolutely zero foresight to the repercussions of the destruction of all that infrastructure a few decades ago

 

[SteveSRT8]

yessir, really stupid to destroy the tracks! But that's big gummint for ya. I'll bet someone's brother got the demo contract in an insider deal!

Our fuel prices could be lowered dramatically if we would simply exploit our own oil. Not to mention the improvement in National Security...

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: jrustles
I don't think there are enough turbos. Maybe they should have one or two for each cylinder. Yeah, a twin compressor sequential turbo for each cylinder is more the German way

They Veyron had quad turbos

Pretty motor, but I'll raise you one:

Their is more than one way to make a lot of HP, and for the record the Zonda R is faster...and currently getting to be more expensive. Now they are up to 760 natural horsepower out of a 6L and some change V12...not bad for a 20 year old motor design.