2014 Ram Ecodiesel; unknown lube or mileage

C

Charlie59

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Oct 13, 2004
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I purchased a used 2014 Ram Ecodiesel that included a oil change. Truck was left at dealership and I picked it up after the service. As always, I did a walk around for damages and popped the hood. The oil filter housing was slightly duty, with no visual clues of recently being touched. The oil housing didn't have any dirty marks or clean marks as if it had been wiped. The lip at the bottom also didn't show any recent signs of oil being spilled or wiped clean. I check the oil dip stick. It was a little above the low mark. The engine had been sitting for at least 3 minutes, so that should be plenty of time to not have one quart of oil left in the heads, correct? The oil looked dirty. I know its a diesel, I've been wrenching on diesel engines for many years. The oil, imo, was more black than what I am used to seeing on a fresh oil change.

So I pulled a sample for blackstone.

"Congrats on purchasing this truck! It's fine that you added a quart dealership added a quart before I left - that won't skew our results
too much. Universal averages show typical wear after about 8,200 miles on the oil. There is always going to
be some metal leftover from the previous fill, and low wear numbers like you have are appropriate right after
an oil change. This fill can see more use (e.g. 4K miles) Does this imply that the oil is only good for a 4k interval , if you're interested. The viscosity is a 15W/40 From what I've read only 5w40 synthetic is now approved. 15w40 was never approved, and
a TBN of 6.3 shows a lot of active additive ready to use (1.0 or less is low). The oil filter is working very well
(0.1% insolubles). Great first report." My comments in bold

Blackstone said they guess it was run less than 1000 miles on the oil change but that they can't say for sure. I did put about 300 miles on the truck after picking it up and pulling the sample.


ALUMINUM 3
CHROMIUM 0
IRON 9
COPPER 1
LEAD 0
TIN 0
MOLYBDENUM 2
NICKEL 0
SILVER 0
TITANIUM 1
POTASSIUM 1
BORON 151
SILICON 6
SODIUM 6
CALCIUM 1849
MAGNESIUM 99
PHOSPHORUS 970
ZINC 1006
BARIUM 0
 
Last edited by a moderator:
When I bought my 2013 Jeep with the 5.7, it had about 14 quarts of oil in it. They must have filled it then forgot they did. I wouldn't trust a word a dealer says. Change the oil, run it, then get it tested after some miles.
 
With those low wear numbers I'd say the oil hasn't been in there very long. Maybe there were several test drives, or a member of the sales staff had the truck for a few days.

I agree completely with HemiHawk; change oil on a recently purchased used vehicle soon after purchase.
 
I would have forgone a UOA and just changed the oil with that money.
 
Originally Posted By: Zee09
I would have forgone a UOA and just changed the oil with that money.


Wife said the same.
blush.gif


I wanted to verify my thoughts and be able to trust them for future service work or avoid.

The biggest result of the UOA is the incorrect grade of oil. If they did change the oil they used 15w40
tired.gif
instead of the approved 5w40. Probably bulk rate dino 15w40 and not the higher cost synthetic 5w40. Great way for a dealership to save money. Charge for synthetic and fill it with bottom grade dino.
 
What is the iron ppm Universal Average for this engine, supplied with your Blackstone report? I know they said its based on an average 8,200 oil change interval, but there is an iron ppm associated with that average number to tell us if the 9 ppm iron you saw is reasonable for
In any case, it does look like the dealership just noticed the truck had a 'sort-of-recent' oil change done, and decided to skip doing a new oil change. No way that stuff should be black-ish already on a new oil change!

The good news is your low insolubles and other nice numbers. Nothing wrong here anyway, merely the typical dealer subversiveness we are all used to!


Originally Posted By: Charlie59
viscosity is a 15W/40 From what I've read only 5w40 synthetic is now approved. 15w40 was never approved,
Blackstone does not really know if it was a 15w40 since they only measure KV100, which establishes it as an Xw40, only the "40" part is known, not the "Xw" part. For Blackstone to guess it was a 15w40 is not right on their part.

The mobiloil.com website says: "Your vehicle manufacturer recommends a 5W-40 viscosity and oil that meets Cummins CES 20081 or Chrysler MS-10902. Your engine oil capacity is approximately 10.6 quarts. We offer Mobil Delvac 1™ ESP 5W-40." if that is the Ram 3.0L diesel engine like I think it is.[/quote]

My rule would be to go 1,000 miles or months for every TBN I see currently, so you can go 6,000 miles more, or 6 months more.
 
Originally Posted By: Charlie59
The biggest result of the UOA is the incorrect grade of oil. If they did change the oil they used 15w40
tired.gif
instead of the approved 5w40. Probably bulk rate dino 15w40 and not the higher cost synthetic 5w40. Great way for a dealership to save money. Charge for synthetic and fill it with bottom grade dino.
Not necessarily true at all. Read my post above. Blackstone only measures the "40" part, not the "Xw" cold temperature cranking viscometer part results. There is nothing in that Blackstone analysis that I can see which can rule in or rule out a 5w40 or 15w40 or 10w40 or 0w40. We can't tell.

The only way to find out what oil they actually used is to try to match the boron, phosphorus, zinc, and moly levels of the Blackstone analysis with a VOA or UOA of some oil we think it might be. Look for the "signature" element levels as a vector to determine which oil it is. Of course, some oils will have similar vectors, which makes it a little difficult.

In the gasoline engine oil world, for example, if we see a certain moly, titanium, and boron level, that is usually enough to point to one brand of oil. Clues.
 
I wouldn't drop the oil just yet since Blackstone says there's plenty of life in it, but questions about viscosity would make me think long and hard before taking it back to that dealer. Depending on where you live, maybe change to 5-40 before winter.
 
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I don't care whom owned it or where I got it, anytime I buy a used vehicle I change all fluids, with OIL and FILTER being the first thing changed so I know what is in the sump!

My F350 with the dreaded 6.0 has 130k miles on it and my oil is not black 1000 miles after a change, it doesn't darken up until it hits around the 5000 mile mark which is when I change it.

I just checked the oil in it last night because my wife was planning a trip today. The current fill, VPB 15W40 was a nice dark gold, not much darker than it was out of the bottle. It currently has about 2800miles on the oil.

So my point is, just because its a diesel doesn't mean the oil should be black!
 
Originally Posted By: Charlie59
Originally Posted By: Zee09
I would have forgone a UOA and just changed the oil with that money.


Wife said the same.
blush.gif


I wanted to verify my thoughts and be able to trust them for future service work or avoid.

The biggest result of the UOA is the incorrect grade of oil. If they did change the oil they used 15w40
tired.gif
instead of the approved 5w40. Probably bulk rate dino 15w40 and not the higher cost synthetic 5w40. Great way for a dealership to save money. Charge for synthetic and fill it with bottom grade dino.




Now, at least you are in control and know what's going on. Good luck with it!
 
Sounds like they didn't change the oil filter. Which is pretty standard at many dealerships, when they "change the oil" on a used car for sale.

Many places will drain 60 seconds worth of oil out, then put the drain bolt back in mid-stream, then top it off. Cheap way to "change the oil" on hundreds of used cars.
 
What the lube has on it in terms of miles is irrelevant. What is important is what's left in it. Low metals, no contamination and strong TBN.

when you say you "pulled a sample", did you mean ONLY a sample, or you dumped the lube for your own OCI and took a sample at drain time?
 
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I let my dealer change mine on my dmax (free oil changes for life), But I know for sure they use mobil 1 super 1300 15w-40. Cause they don't buy it by the barrel and have jugs cause they don't service diesels very much.
 
I understand why you let the Stealer change the oil.... it was a free service. I would have done the same. But the fact that there is troubling evidence and..... they poured in 15w40, when only 5w40 is approved by FCA would cause me a little consternation, especially in the winter months.

Personally I would dump it and give myself some peace of mind.


..........
 
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