No offense to the mirage guy but he does not have extensive experience with oil brands in his mirage, he has never tried sustina or redline so his input is vague. Plus my mirage runs fine on castrol edge synthetic the dealer put in it, I just want the best and on paper sustina is the best for what I want, less wear more mpg.
2014 Mitsubishi Mirage Eneos
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How is sustina not the best. It claims to be the thinnest of the 0w20 oils which doesn't take a genius to understand it will be more efficient at giving me mpg. Plus they say different oils do different in different applications, have you seen testing done to prove sustina isn't the best? Or is it just some guy that says Pennzoil ultra sounds quieter in their engine.
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: alex16
How is sustina not the best. It claims to be the thinnest of the 0w20 oils which doesn't take a genius to understand it will be more efficient at giving me mpg. Plus they say different oils do different in different applications, have you seen testing done to prove sustina isn't the best? Or is it just some guy that says Pennzoil ultra sounds quieter in their engine.
Sure, if by "best" you are chasing the idea that one 0w-20 over another will give you a noticeable gain in fuel economy (it won't). Otherwise, what metric are we going by here? Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0w20 has arguably the best base oil composition of the readily available 0w-20 lubricants.
If you are chasing the fuel economy holy grail you might as well try that new Honda NEXT oil, which is way thinner than Sustina, though you might spin a rod bearing, LOL!
How is sustina not the best. It claims to be the thinnest of the 0w20 oils which doesn't take a genius to understand it will be more efficient at giving me mpg. Plus they say different oils do different in different applications, have you seen testing done to prove sustina isn't the best? Or is it just some guy that says Pennzoil ultra sounds quieter in their engine.
Sure, if by "best" you are chasing the idea that one 0w-20 over another will give you a noticeable gain in fuel economy (it won't). Otherwise, what metric are we going by here? Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0w20 has arguably the best base oil composition of the readily available 0w-20 lubricants.
If you are chasing the fuel economy holy grail you might as well try that new Honda NEXT oil, which is way thinner than Sustina, though you might spin a rod bearing, LOL!
Originally Posted By: alex16
How is sustina not the best. It claims to be the thinnest of the 0w20 oils which doesn't take a genius to understand it will be more efficient at giving me mpg. Plus they say different oils do different in different applications, have you seen testing done to prove sustina isn't the best? Or is it just some guy that says Pennzoil ultra sounds quieter in their engine.
My point is that neither you nor me has data to show which oil is the best. You are foolish to believe you can judge which oil is the best just by looking at a technical sheet. For you to say you are running the best oil is not true because you do not have the test data to prove it. The chances are 99.9% that you could run a good synthetic off the shelf at Walmart like Mobil 1 Extended Performance and get the exact same results within statistical noise in every measurable way. You would be lucky to tell the mpg difference between this oil and a 5w30.
How is sustina not the best. It claims to be the thinnest of the 0w20 oils which doesn't take a genius to understand it will be more efficient at giving me mpg. Plus they say different oils do different in different applications, have you seen testing done to prove sustina isn't the best? Or is it just some guy that says Pennzoil ultra sounds quieter in their engine.
My point is that neither you nor me has data to show which oil is the best. You are foolish to believe you can judge which oil is the best just by looking at a technical sheet. For you to say you are running the best oil is not true because you do not have the test data to prove it. The chances are 99.9% that you could run a good synthetic off the shelf at Walmart like Mobil 1 Extended Performance and get the exact same results within statistical noise in every measurable way. You would be lucky to tell the mpg difference between this oil and a 5w30.
Originally Posted By: alex16
How is sustina not the best. It claims to be the thinnest of the 0w20 oils which doesn't take a genius to understand it will be more efficient at giving me mpg.
It all depends how one defines "best." Sustina 0w-20 is clearly not going to be the "best" in a big diesel engine, unless killing it quickly is your goal. It's also far from the "best" price. It doesn't offer the "best" OCI. It certainly doesn't have the "best" availability. And I see no evidence that it offers the "best" wear protection. I don't see the "best" certifications on it.
How is sustina not the best. It claims to be the thinnest of the 0w20 oils which doesn't take a genius to understand it will be more efficient at giving me mpg.
It all depends how one defines "best." Sustina 0w-20 is clearly not going to be the "best" in a big diesel engine, unless killing it quickly is your goal. It's also far from the "best" price. It doesn't offer the "best" OCI. It certainly doesn't have the "best" availability. And I see no evidence that it offers the "best" wear protection. I don't see the "best" certifications on it.
It's just like you guys have your favorite oil, such as m1 and how it has a better base oil, I'm sure it's good stuff but what if sustina is better at reducing sludge and provides less wear/more mpg. My friend that is a long time racer and engine builder has ran RP, M1, mollylube, amsoil, redline. He said he likes amsoil told me he hasn't tried sustina but it sounds like a good choice, he said the amsoil is better than all the others he has tried.
The only real way is to put sustina in my mirage and try it myself. after 200k do the timing chain guides and compare it to other mirage engines integrally to see their sludge build up.
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I saw Eneos 0W50 at Napa today,$13 a quart,woah!! Wonder why it's so high? I haven't read through this whole thread,at this price it must be an ester or pao,right? I think that's one of the most expensive oil I've ever seen.
Originally Posted By: alex16
The only real way is to put sustina in my mirage and try it myself. after 200k do the timing chain guides and compare it to other mirage engines integrally to see their sludge build up.
So does that mean you'll be using Sustina for the first 200K miles and depending on the the results, something else for the next 200-300K miles? If that's the case, I think your oil search is more akin to a self-fulfilling prophecy than it is trying to find the "best" oil for your application.
The only real way is to put sustina in my mirage and try it myself. after 200k do the timing chain guides and compare it to other mirage engines integrally to see their sludge build up.
So does that mean you'll be using Sustina for the first 200K miles and depending on the the results, something else for the next 200-300K miles? If that's the case, I think your oil search is more akin to a self-fulfilling prophecy than it is trying to find the "best" oil for your application.
I think the OP's objective with this thread is for a bunch of BIOGERs to come along and validate his proposal for the next 200k miles with Sustina. I think he found out pretty quick that rarely ever happens on these boards.
There is no best oil. I don't care how much gains in MPG you are getting, the end cost of the oil versus perceived savings per OCI is negligible at best.
Go with the cheapest 0W20 off the Walmart shelves and you'll still make it to 200k.
There is no best oil. I don't care how much gains in MPG you are getting, the end cost of the oil versus perceived savings per OCI is negligible at best.
Go with the cheapest 0W20 off the Walmart shelves and you'll still make it to 200k.
Haha I'm not trying to being anything special. I came here to find what is the best oil for my 3A92, I came on here for advice which I was given by few, when I researched their advice I like what I saw in their adverting. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong or sell a product.
Things I've come to realize...
Fact #1
Nobody on this forum knows what is the best oil for my 3A92
Fact #2
People on this forum have their favorite oils
Fact #3
People on this forum generally do not like Eneos Sustina
Fact #4
People on this forum prefer to ridicule me on my thread rather than help. (I've stated before if your just going to tell me to run off shelf oil than please don't post that has been posted many times before)
I'm no expert, have little experience, and I am again trying to find the best for my 3A92. I've gotten all the help I needed from a few and a truck load of trouble from the rest.
Things I've come to realize...
Fact #1
Nobody on this forum knows what is the best oil for my 3A92
Fact #2
People on this forum have their favorite oils
Fact #3
People on this forum generally do not like Eneos Sustina
Fact #4
People on this forum prefer to ridicule me on my thread rather than help. (I've stated before if your just going to tell me to run off shelf oil than please don't post that has been posted many times before)
I'm no expert, have little experience, and I am again trying to find the best for my 3A92. I've gotten all the help I needed from a few and a truck load of trouble from the rest.
Fact #1 - True - That's because there is no such thing as a "best" oil.
Fact #2 - True - can't argue with that.
Fact #3 - False - people don't dislike it. They are offering you some reasonable alternatives which you have chosen to ignore.
Fact #4 - False - please see #3.
Fact #2 - True - can't argue with that.
Fact #3 - False - people don't dislike it. They are offering you some reasonable alternatives which you have chosen to ignore.
Fact #4 - False - please see #3.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Sustina, like the SOPUS PP and PU family, are GTL-based. They are group III based products. ENEOS calls theirs WBase and the process GTLE.
Oils like AMSOIL's signature series and the Mobil 1 Extended Performance product are based on more expensive PAO base oils. Even Mobil's AFE 0w-20 has a good amount of PAO in it to achieve its cold temperature performance.
Paying a premium for a Group III-based oil rubs certain people the wrong way. That's not to say that the performance of the product cannot be excellent; it most certainly can. However, if an oil is blended with less expensive components, paying more for it because of the label on the bottle doesn't make a lot of sense IMHO.
That's why I often say Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0w20 is a bargain. It is an expensive oil to blend that is priced similarly to oils that are much cheaper to manufacture. It also carries GM and Ford approvals (Dexos1 and WSS-M2C947-A), which are more demanding than your basic API/GF-5 tests.
Ultimately if you want to run Sustina, I'm sure it is an excellent product that will perform well. But I don't believe there is any evidence that it would perform better than oils that are less expensive and more available and I believe that's the primary issue most are bringing attention to in this thread.
Oils like AMSOIL's signature series and the Mobil 1 Extended Performance product are based on more expensive PAO base oils. Even Mobil's AFE 0w-20 has a good amount of PAO in it to achieve its cold temperature performance.
Paying a premium for a Group III-based oil rubs certain people the wrong way. That's not to say that the performance of the product cannot be excellent; it most certainly can. However, if an oil is blended with less expensive components, paying more for it because of the label on the bottle doesn't make a lot of sense IMHO.
That's why I often say Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0w20 is a bargain. It is an expensive oil to blend that is priced similarly to oils that are much cheaper to manufacture. It also carries GM and Ford approvals (Dexos1 and WSS-M2C947-A), which are more demanding than your basic API/GF-5 tests.
Ultimately if you want to run Sustina, I'm sure it is an excellent product that will perform well. But I don't believe there is any evidence that it would perform better than oils that are less expensive and more available and I believe that's the primary issue most are bringing attention to in this thread.
The reasonable alternatives are not what I want, I want the piece of mind knowing I'm putting fancy oil in my engine that has the potential to making it last longer and run better. The cost of sustina and extending my OCI to just before factory recommended 7500 (7k OCI) is $54 per oil change with filter and oil shipped to my door. This is super cheap when you compare most Mirage owners will get their oil changed at the dealer for $56 with their synthetic and mitsu filter. For less than a dealership oil change I can do it myself with oil that nobody knows how will perform in a 3A92, people want to say Sustina is not better than M1 and that M1 has a better base oil but where is the proof? Until I see proof I will run Sustina, I will also like to try 0W20 redline next summer, maybe even other oils like moly lube/Motoul/amsoil.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Sustina, like the SOPUS PP and PU family, are GTL-based. They are group III based products. ENEOS calls theirs WBase and the process GTLE.
Oils like AMSOIL's signature series and the Mobil 1 Extended Performance product are based on more expensive PAO base oils. Even Mobil's AFE 0w-20 has a good amount of PAO in it to achieve its cold temperature performance.
Paying a premium for a Group III-based oil rubs certain people the wrong way. That's not to say that the performance of the product cannot be excellent; it most certainly can. However, if an oil is blended with less expensive components, paying more for it because of the label on the bottle doesn't make a lot of sense IMHO.
That's why I often say Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0w20 is a bargain. It is an expensive oil to blend that is priced similarly to oils that are much cheaper to manufacture. It also carries GM and Ford approvals (Dexos1 and WSS-M2C947-A), which are more demanding than your basic API/GF-5 tests.
Ultimately if you want to run Sustina, I'm sure it is an excellent product that will perform well. But I don't believe there is any evidence that it would perform better than oils that are less expensive and more available and I believe that's the primary issue most are bringing attention to in this thread.
Finally a good post!!!!!! Thank you!
Sustina, like the SOPUS PP and PU family, are GTL-based. They are group III based products. ENEOS calls theirs WBase and the process GTLE.
Oils like AMSOIL's signature series and the Mobil 1 Extended Performance product are based on more expensive PAO base oils. Even Mobil's AFE 0w-20 has a good amount of PAO in it to achieve its cold temperature performance.
Paying a premium for a Group III-based oil rubs certain people the wrong way. That's not to say that the performance of the product cannot be excellent; it most certainly can. However, if an oil is blended with less expensive components, paying more for it because of the label on the bottle doesn't make a lot of sense IMHO.
That's why I often say Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0w20 is a bargain. It is an expensive oil to blend that is priced similarly to oils that are much cheaper to manufacture. It also carries GM and Ford approvals (Dexos1 and WSS-M2C947-A), which are more demanding than your basic API/GF-5 tests.
Ultimately if you want to run Sustina, I'm sure it is an excellent product that will perform well. But I don't believe there is any evidence that it would perform better than oils that are less expensive and more available and I believe that's the primary issue most are bringing attention to in this thread.
Finally a good post!!!!!! Thank you!
wemay
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Again, just use the Sustina if you want, no harm no foul. Its a great product. Other's here have just said there are cheaper alternatives that will pose no significant difference in performance one way or another.
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Sounds to me like the decision has been made. Op will use sustina.
I think some people are having a hard time excepting that he isn't succumbing to their pleads that their perceived better oil or better deal should be tried.
Its his car,his money. It's his choice.
The purpose of this thread really should have been satisfied a while ago. Before I came along for sure lol.....silly wabbits hahaha
I think some people are having a hard time excepting that he isn't succumbing to their pleads that their perceived better oil or better deal should be tried.
Its his car,his money. It's his choice.
The purpose of this thread really should have been satisfied a while ago. Before I came along for sure lol.....silly wabbits hahaha
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: alex16
The reasonable alternatives are not what I want, I want the piece of mind knowing I'm putting fancy oil in my engine that has the potential to making it last longer and run better.
Then why make a thread about it? Run what you want.
Originally Posted By: alex16
For less than a dealership oil change I can do it myself with oil that nobody knows how will perform in a 3A92,
Correct, people, including yourself, have no idea how it will perform. You also have no idea how it performs in any of the OEM testing regimens because it lacks any OEM approvals.
Originally Posted By: alex16
people want to say Sustina is not better than M1 and that M1 has a better base oil but where is the proof?
Proof of what, that Sustina uses Group III/GTL and Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0w20 contains PAO?
See this thread for a statement from ENEOS regarding their WBase and Sustina:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2201835/3
MSDS for Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0w20:
http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/IntApps/psims/SearchResults.aspx
Put in 0w-20, click on the EP, you'll see 60-70% PAO listed.
But as per my other post, feel confident that Sustina will perform well. I'm sure it will.
The reasonable alternatives are not what I want, I want the piece of mind knowing I'm putting fancy oil in my engine that has the potential to making it last longer and run better.
Then why make a thread about it? Run what you want.
Originally Posted By: alex16
For less than a dealership oil change I can do it myself with oil that nobody knows how will perform in a 3A92,
Correct, people, including yourself, have no idea how it will perform. You also have no idea how it performs in any of the OEM testing regimens because it lacks any OEM approvals.
Originally Posted By: alex16
people want to say Sustina is not better than M1 and that M1 has a better base oil but where is the proof?
Proof of what, that Sustina uses Group III/GTL and Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0w20 contains PAO?
See this thread for a statement from ENEOS regarding their WBase and Sustina:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2201835/3
MSDS for Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0w20:
http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/IntApps/psims/SearchResults.aspx
Put in 0w-20, click on the EP, you'll see 60-70% PAO listed.
But as per my other post, feel confident that Sustina will perform well. I'm sure it will.
Say 28 oil changes get you to 200k. At $54ea that's $1,512
If you are a diligent shopper and buy oil and filter for $20 per change, its almost $1,000 less.
Your engine doesn't care about a "fancy" oil. Calling it by its build name doesn't make it feel any better either.
Its a waste of money, but you are welcome to do with it as you wish. Just don't expect everyone to pat you on the back.
I'd rather have that $ in my bank account, which is why I stock up on sale oils or rebates and aim to pay ~$1/qt for synthetic oil and run a Fram Ultra for two OCIs. Closer to $10/OCI with a synthetic oil still. Much better value. I have my justification and you have yours.
Good day, sir.
If you are a diligent shopper and buy oil and filter for $20 per change, its almost $1,000 less.
Your engine doesn't care about a "fancy" oil. Calling it by its build name doesn't make it feel any better either.
Its a waste of money, but you are welcome to do with it as you wish. Just don't expect everyone to pat you on the back.
I'd rather have that $ in my bank account, which is why I stock up on sale oils or rebates and aim to pay ~$1/qt for synthetic oil and run a Fram Ultra for two OCIs. Closer to $10/OCI with a synthetic oil still. Much better value. I have my justification and you have yours.
Good day, sir.
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