Why a break in additive? Just run what's recommended.
2014 Ford Focus ST Redline's Break in oil question
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What's recommended is 5,000 miles on the factory fill motorcraft synthetic blend and filter.
Which I wasn't too keen on running much past 1,000 miles.
Which I wasn't too keen on running much past 1,000 miles.
This is all myths. I would have run FF until 5K then change it. I have built many motors that have gone over 150k with some going 300k and not one was changed before regular interval. With cars from the 60's maybe but not today with roller cams since most have pre lube on everything when built which will last for one fill minimum. Had a customer that I built his Rabbit many years ago tell me he sold it with 400K since rebuild and still going strong and still getting 40 mpg with diesel. Todays engines are low friction engines with roller cams and many don't have bearings as specs are better held with aluminum blocks and heads so with proper oil theoretically can last forever. I don't even believe in breaking the motors in just drive like always. It is not a race car that is run upwards of 8k+. What kills todays engines are lack of oil changes not running factory fill to long.
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Originally Posted By: jamesyarbrough
Jeeze dont get all upset. The FACT is that zinc and phosphorus levels are both under 1000 PPM. As far as break in oils go thats nothing. It may very well be overkill for a roller cam engine, to have higher levels than that but some people like a lot of ZDDP on break in whether its needed or not.
15 years ago no one used break in oil because SL oils had around 1200 ppm of zinc. But now on the same engines people use an oil with double that amount and it actually shows increased engine life. So yeah as far as break in oil PU sucks! Too little ZDDP and way too much detergent. Whether this application needs a break in oil or just a PCMO is irrelevant. Its what the owner wants for added insurance of proper break in.
Dont get broken hearted just cause someone wants to use a ZDDP additive with PU for a short break in run. It wont hurt and Pennzoil makes more oil everyday.
Btw im sure Ferrari does not use American 5w30. Apples and oranges
I am not upset in the slightest and frankly could care less what you or the OP uses as oil, but to suggest that PU needs anything added to it to somehow beef it up for break-in is just wrong. Engine designs have changed in 15 years as have the oils designed for them. I am certain that Ford and Shell know more about engine designs and oil chemistry than the entire lot of us do on BITOG. But somehow as armchair engineers we know more and believe that Shell's flagship oil needs something added to it in order to protect an engine during break-in? I think not...
Jeeze dont get all upset. The FACT is that zinc and phosphorus levels are both under 1000 PPM. As far as break in oils go thats nothing. It may very well be overkill for a roller cam engine, to have higher levels than that but some people like a lot of ZDDP on break in whether its needed or not.
15 years ago no one used break in oil because SL oils had around 1200 ppm of zinc. But now on the same engines people use an oil with double that amount and it actually shows increased engine life. So yeah as far as break in oil PU sucks! Too little ZDDP and way too much detergent. Whether this application needs a break in oil or just a PCMO is irrelevant. Its what the owner wants for added insurance of proper break in.
Dont get broken hearted just cause someone wants to use a ZDDP additive with PU for a short break in run. It wont hurt and Pennzoil makes more oil everyday.
Btw im sure Ferrari does not use American 5w30. Apples and oranges
I am not upset in the slightest and frankly could care less what you or the OP uses as oil, but to suggest that PU needs anything added to it to somehow beef it up for break-in is just wrong. Engine designs have changed in 15 years as have the oils designed for them. I am certain that Ford and Shell know more about engine designs and oil chemistry than the entire lot of us do on BITOG. But somehow as armchair engineers we know more and believe that Shell's flagship oil needs something added to it in order to protect an engine during break-in? I think not...
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: jamesyarbrough
Jeeze dont get all upset. The FACT is that zinc and phosphorus levels are both under 1000 PPM. As far as break in oils go thats nothing. It may very well be overkill for a roller cam engine, to have higher levels than that but some people like a lot of ZDDP on break in whether its needed or not.
15 years ago no one used break in oil because SL oils had around 1200 ppm of zinc. But now on the same engines people use an oil with double that amount and it actually shows increased engine life. So yeah as far as break in oil PU sucks! Too little ZDDP and way too much detergent. Whether this application needs a break in oil or just a PCMO is irrelevant. Its what the owner wants for added insurance of proper break in.
Dont get broken hearted just cause someone wants to use a ZDDP additive with PU for a short break in run. It wont hurt and Pennzoil makes more oil everyday.
Btw im sure Ferrari does not use American 5w30. Apples and oranges
I am not upset in the slightest and frankly could care less what you or the OP uses as oil, but to suggest that PU needs anything added to it to somehow beef it up for break-in is just wrong. Engine designs have changed in 15 years as have the oils designed for them. I am certain that Ford and Shell know more about engine designs and oil chemistry than the entire lot of us do on BITOG. But somehow as armchair engineers we know more and believe that Shell's flagship oil needs something added to it in order to protect an engine during break-in? I think not...
Wow thats cool man. You have a nice day. I will be sure to watch my mouth about PU from now on.
Originally Posted By: jamesyarbrough
Jeeze dont get all upset. The FACT is that zinc and phosphorus levels are both under 1000 PPM. As far as break in oils go thats nothing. It may very well be overkill for a roller cam engine, to have higher levels than that but some people like a lot of ZDDP on break in whether its needed or not.
15 years ago no one used break in oil because SL oils had around 1200 ppm of zinc. But now on the same engines people use an oil with double that amount and it actually shows increased engine life. So yeah as far as break in oil PU sucks! Too little ZDDP and way too much detergent. Whether this application needs a break in oil or just a PCMO is irrelevant. Its what the owner wants for added insurance of proper break in.
Dont get broken hearted just cause someone wants to use a ZDDP additive with PU for a short break in run. It wont hurt and Pennzoil makes more oil everyday.
Btw im sure Ferrari does not use American 5w30. Apples and oranges
I am not upset in the slightest and frankly could care less what you or the OP uses as oil, but to suggest that PU needs anything added to it to somehow beef it up for break-in is just wrong. Engine designs have changed in 15 years as have the oils designed for them. I am certain that Ford and Shell know more about engine designs and oil chemistry than the entire lot of us do on BITOG. But somehow as armchair engineers we know more and believe that Shell's flagship oil needs something added to it in order to protect an engine during break-in? I think not...
Wow thats cool man. You have a nice day. I will be sure to watch my mouth about PU from now on.
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Originally Posted By: jamesyarbrough
PU additive package is weak for break in.
Can you in any way qualify this statement? GM's higher performance engines leave the factory with plane-Jane Mobil 1 5w30 in them. Certainly no more robust in the additive department than PU. We've seen VOA's on the factory fills of many engines on here and most of them are pretty unremarkable.
What exactly in this engine, or most stock engines for that matter needs boatloads of ZDDP for protection during break-in? This isn't a BBC being spun to 8K with a huge flat tappet bump-stick in it that we are trying the break the lifters in on.
PU additive package is weak for break in.
Can you in any way qualify this statement? GM's higher performance engines leave the factory with plane-Jane Mobil 1 5w30 in them. Certainly no more robust in the additive department than PU. We've seen VOA's on the factory fills of many engines on here and most of them are pretty unremarkable.
What exactly in this engine, or most stock engines for that matter needs boatloads of ZDDP for protection during break-in? This isn't a BBC being spun to 8K with a huge flat tappet bump-stick in it that we are trying the break the lifters in on.
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Originally Posted By: jamesyarbrough
Factory fills are not always shelf oil. I was reading the other day about a green dealer oil. Something about blacklight leak detection but I dont know if it has anything to do with this.
Maybe one of the elders will chime in
Castrol is one of the manufacturers IIRC of lubricants that contain an UV dye not only for leak detection but for verification that the proper oil was used while under warranty for vehicles that require a specific oil.
Factory fills are not always shelf oil. I was reading the other day about a green dealer oil. Something about blacklight leak detection but I dont know if it has anything to do with this.
Maybe one of the elders will chime in
Castrol is one of the manufacturers IIRC of lubricants that contain an UV dye not only for leak detection but for verification that the proper oil was used while under warranty for vehicles that require a specific oil.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: jamesyarbrough
PU additive package is weak for break in.
Can you in any way qualify this statement? GM's higher performance engines leave the factory with plane-Jane Mobil 1 5w30 in them. Certainly no more robust in the additive department than PU. We've seen VOA's on the factory fills of many engines on here and most of them are pretty unremarkable.
What exactly in this engine, or most stock engines for that matter needs boatloads of ZDDP for protection during break-in? This isn't a BBC being spun to 8K with a huge flat tappet bump-stick in it that we are trying the break the lifters in on.
Im in no way saying this application needs a break in oil. All im saying is PU is not a break in oil, its a PCMO. And if the OP wants added ZDDP on a short break in run it wont hurt. Theres no harm in it so why argue about it?
I dont understand why everyone is bashing on a break in additive. Even if it is not needed for a long life on this engine, it may help. So when you have no possible disadvantage and only a possible advantage, why not?
I was kind of agreeing with the other guy on the subject but he never caught on and wanted to be impolite so I just dropped it.
So to sum up my view on the subject
PU is not a break in oil, and although many new cars dont require a break in oil and use regular PCMO as factory fill that doesn't mean there is no possible benifit of using a break in oil or break in additive.
sorry for any confusion.
Originally Posted By: jamesyarbrough
PU additive package is weak for break in.
Can you in any way qualify this statement? GM's higher performance engines leave the factory with plane-Jane Mobil 1 5w30 in them. Certainly no more robust in the additive department than PU. We've seen VOA's on the factory fills of many engines on here and most of them are pretty unremarkable.
What exactly in this engine, or most stock engines for that matter needs boatloads of ZDDP for protection during break-in? This isn't a BBC being spun to 8K with a huge flat tappet bump-stick in it that we are trying the break the lifters in on.
Im in no way saying this application needs a break in oil. All im saying is PU is not a break in oil, its a PCMO. And if the OP wants added ZDDP on a short break in run it wont hurt. Theres no harm in it so why argue about it?
I dont understand why everyone is bashing on a break in additive. Even if it is not needed for a long life on this engine, it may help. So when you have no possible disadvantage and only a possible advantage, why not?
I was kind of agreeing with the other guy on the subject but he never caught on and wanted to be impolite so I just dropped it.
So to sum up my view on the subject
PU is not a break in oil, and although many new cars dont require a break in oil and use regular PCMO as factory fill that doesn't mean there is no possible benifit of using a break in oil or break in additive.
sorry for any confusion.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: jamesyarbrough
Factory fills are not always shelf oil. I was reading the other day about a green dealer oil. Something about blacklight leak detection but I dont know if it has anything to do with this.
Maybe one of the elders will chime in
Castrol is one of the manufacturers IIRC of lubricants that contain an UV dye not only for leak detection but for verification that the proper oil was used while under warranty for vehicles that require a specific oil.
So whats up with this green mc? Is it a break in specific oil used by ford?
Originally Posted By: jamesyarbrough
Factory fills are not always shelf oil. I was reading the other day about a green dealer oil. Something about blacklight leak detection but I dont know if it has anything to do with this.
Maybe one of the elders will chime in
Castrol is one of the manufacturers IIRC of lubricants that contain an UV dye not only for leak detection but for verification that the proper oil was used while under warranty for vehicles that require a specific oil.
So whats up with this green mc? Is it a break in specific oil used by ford?
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: jamesyarbrough
Factory fills are not always shelf oil. I was reading the other day about a green dealer oil. Something about blacklight leak detection but I dont know if it has anything to do with this.
Maybe one of the elders will chime in
Castrol is one of the manufacturers IIRC of lubricants that contain an UV dye not only for leak detection but for verification that the proper oil was used while under warranty for vehicles that require a specific oil.
Interesting, the ff on my wife's Mazda was green as well, I assumed this was the Mazda high moly oil, now im thimking it was probably Castrol which would also make sense with the Mazda /Castrol relationship.
Originally Posted By: jamesyarbrough
Factory fills are not always shelf oil. I was reading the other day about a green dealer oil. Something about blacklight leak detection but I dont know if it has anything to do with this.
Maybe one of the elders will chime in
Castrol is one of the manufacturers IIRC of lubricants that contain an UV dye not only for leak detection but for verification that the proper oil was used while under warranty for vehicles that require a specific oil.
Interesting, the ff on my wife's Mazda was green as well, I assumed this was the Mazda high moly oil, now im thimking it was probably Castrol which would also make sense with the Mazda /Castrol relationship.
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Originally Posted By: jamesyarbrough
Im in no way saying this application needs a break in oil.
OK, neither am I.
Quote:
All im saying is PU is not a break in oil, its a PCMO.
Correct. As are probably most factory fills on modern engines.
Quote:
And if the OP wants added ZDDP on a short break in run it wont hurt.
True, but the manufacturer explicitly states not to use additives in the oil. So while under warranty, on an application that we both agree doesn't need break-in additives, it doesn't seem like a wise move to me.
Quote:
Theres no harm in it so why argue about it?
The only potential harm would be if there was an issue and Ford decided to analyze the oil. But that's unlikely to happen I agree. But at the same time I think we can agree that there's no benefit to it either. It's a feel-good thing.
Quote:
I dont understand why everyone is bashing on a break in additive. Even if it is not needed for a long life on this engine, it may help. So when you have no possible disadvantage and only a possible advantage, why not?
That's not what we are doing
I'm not bashing a break-in additive for an engine that may actually need one. With one of my buddy's, we've broken in a number of SBC flat tappet cams using GM EOS as per the recommendation of the machinist we know and one of those sticks was a Lunatti Voodoo, a camshaft with very aggressive ramp rates for a flat tappet stick.
On the other hand, we've never used anything in our SBF's with roller cams because they don't need anything.
The point that is being highlighted here is that this isn't an aftermarket built motor with the need for any sort of additive. It is an under-warranty stock engine with the manufacturer advising the use of a particular lubricant that carries or meets the necessary Ford spec. Using anything other than that leaves the flap on the back of your long undies open in case there is some sort of issue with the engine and Ford, who isn't known for being overly generous on the warranty front, decides to make a stink about what they find in the pan.
Quote:
I was kind of agreeing with the other guy on the subject but he never caught on and wanted to be impolite so I just dropped it.
So to sum up my view on the subject
PU is not a break in oil, and although many new cars dont require a break in oil and use regular PCMO as factory fill that doesn't mean there is no possible benifit of using a break in oil or break in additive.
sorry for any confusion.
He wasn't being impolite, I think he was just frustrated that you didn't appear to be getting what he was saying. And no need to apologize, hopefully my explanation above may make what's being said a bit clearer.
Im in no way saying this application needs a break in oil.
OK, neither am I.
Quote:
All im saying is PU is not a break in oil, its a PCMO.
Correct. As are probably most factory fills on modern engines.
Quote:
And if the OP wants added ZDDP on a short break in run it wont hurt.
True, but the manufacturer explicitly states not to use additives in the oil. So while under warranty, on an application that we both agree doesn't need break-in additives, it doesn't seem like a wise move to me.
Quote:
Theres no harm in it so why argue about it?
The only potential harm would be if there was an issue and Ford decided to analyze the oil. But that's unlikely to happen I agree. But at the same time I think we can agree that there's no benefit to it either. It's a feel-good thing.
Quote:
I dont understand why everyone is bashing on a break in additive. Even if it is not needed for a long life on this engine, it may help. So when you have no possible disadvantage and only a possible advantage, why not?
That's not what we are doing
On the other hand, we've never used anything in our SBF's with roller cams because they don't need anything.
The point that is being highlighted here is that this isn't an aftermarket built motor with the need for any sort of additive. It is an under-warranty stock engine with the manufacturer advising the use of a particular lubricant that carries or meets the necessary Ford spec. Using anything other than that leaves the flap on the back of your long undies open in case there is some sort of issue with the engine and Ford, who isn't known for being overly generous on the warranty front, decides to make a stink about what they find in the pan.
Quote:
I was kind of agreeing with the other guy on the subject but he never caught on and wanted to be impolite so I just dropped it.
So to sum up my view on the subject
PU is not a break in oil, and although many new cars dont require a break in oil and use regular PCMO as factory fill that doesn't mean there is no possible benifit of using a break in oil or break in additive.
sorry for any confusion.
He wasn't being impolite, I think he was just frustrated that you didn't appear to be getting what he was saying. And no need to apologize, hopefully my explanation above may make what's being said a bit clearer.
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Originally Posted By: jamesyarbrough
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: jamesyarbrough
Factory fills are not always shelf oil. I was reading the other day about a green dealer oil. Something about blacklight leak detection but I dont know if it has anything to do with this.
Maybe one of the elders will chime in
Castrol is one of the manufacturers IIRC of lubricants that contain an UV dye not only for leak detection but for verification that the proper oil was used while under warranty for vehicles that require a specific oil.
So whats up with this green mc? Is it a break in specific oil used by ford?
Could be, could just be a UV dye added to the factory fill for the reasons mentioned. Could be the assembly lube dying the oil, could be a whole host of things really, LOL
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: jamesyarbrough
Factory fills are not always shelf oil. I was reading the other day about a green dealer oil. Something about blacklight leak detection but I dont know if it has anything to do with this.
Maybe one of the elders will chime in
Castrol is one of the manufacturers IIRC of lubricants that contain an UV dye not only for leak detection but for verification that the proper oil was used while under warranty for vehicles that require a specific oil.
So whats up with this green mc? Is it a break in specific oil used by ford?
Could be, could just be a UV dye added to the factory fill for the reasons mentioned. Could be the assembly lube dying the oil, could be a whole host of things really, LOL
Originally Posted By: Hyde244
Ditch the break-in additive. You do not need it, and Ford does not recommend it.
And I will bet somewhere Ford says not to use oil additives.
Ditch the break-in additive. You do not need it, and Ford does not recommend it.
And I will bet somewhere Ford says not to use oil additives.
After loosing a couple cams myself I just figure better safe than sorry and maybe a little too much is just enough.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Hyde244
Ditch the break-in additive. You do not need it, and Ford does not recommend it.
And I will bet somewhere Ford says not to use oil additives.
Dont they all?
That doesn't stop anyone from using MMO, mos2 or some of the otherstuff in the additive section...
Originally Posted By: Hyde244
Ditch the break-in additive. You do not need it, and Ford does not recommend it.
And I will bet somewhere Ford says not to use oil additives.
Dont they all?
That doesn't stop anyone from using MMO, mos2 or some of the otherstuff in the additive section...
Mods, thanks for the title change.
Ford does say in the manual not to use any kind of oil additive, this is also true of the fuel system, and is in most new vehicle handbooks.
However this isn't STP or Lucas break in additive, this is from a company known for making extremely reputable products and the VOA's on this break-in additive don't show anything that would be bad to add into any oil, even if you wanted to use a tiny bit to supplement your regular OCI you can do that with this.
Past that, comparing the base oils of the Motor-craft Synthetic Blend 5w30 to the Pennzoil Ultra 5w30, the Pennzoil Ultra is a significantly better motor oil (IMHO) especially for a Direct Injection turbocharge motor which typically shred motor oils.
I figure I wont be running this Pennzoil Ultra for more than 3000 miles before I change it and start going on 5k mile OCI's with used oil analysis along the way and the break-in additive only supplemented the Pennzoil Ultra where it might not have been as "robust".
The only detractors (again IMHO) to using the redline break in additive are the following...
1. Warranty nonsense that any manufacture applies to vehicles today to stop people from adding snake oils to there motors and causing ford un-necessary hardship in replacement components.
2. Using too-much of a good thing making it a bad thing. (IE: adding a entire bottle to a 5-6 qrt sump.)
The OP's .2 cents.
Ford does say in the manual not to use any kind of oil additive, this is also true of the fuel system, and is in most new vehicle handbooks.
However this isn't STP or Lucas break in additive, this is from a company known for making extremely reputable products and the VOA's on this break-in additive don't show anything that would be bad to add into any oil, even if you wanted to use a tiny bit to supplement your regular OCI you can do that with this.
Past that, comparing the base oils of the Motor-craft Synthetic Blend 5w30 to the Pennzoil Ultra 5w30, the Pennzoil Ultra is a significantly better motor oil (IMHO) especially for a Direct Injection turbocharge motor which typically shred motor oils.
I figure I wont be running this Pennzoil Ultra for more than 3000 miles before I change it and start going on 5k mile OCI's with used oil analysis along the way and the break-in additive only supplemented the Pennzoil Ultra where it might not have been as "robust".
The only detractors (again IMHO) to using the redline break in additive are the following...
1. Warranty nonsense that any manufacture applies to vehicles today to stop people from adding snake oils to there motors and causing ford un-necessary hardship in replacement components.
2. Using too-much of a good thing making it a bad thing. (IE: adding a entire bottle to a 5-6 qrt sump.)
The OP's .2 cents.
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
No complaints here.
None here either.
No complaints here.
None here either.
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