2014 Acura RLX Suspension Walkaround

[SteveSRT8]

Most japanese cars I see have tiny brakes. Some of the imports are so small in the back they look like a bicycle setup.

If they even use a disc in the rear it's a solid disc with NO VENTING!

In any road test with detailed specs the Japanese Imports usually have the smallest brakes versus their size/weight/performance. The RLX may not, but as a loaded model costs almost 70 grand there's a LOT of good competition.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Solid rear discs are very much standard in the industry. My family has owned countless vehicles with rear disc brakes, and none were vented in the back. Going back to 1992 and Ford with our Crown Vic (our '92 Mustang 5.0 had drums!). Most of the Jeeps had/have rear discs (none of which were vented), our minivan's rear discs were solid, both of our current cars' rear discs are solid, both of my Cadillac's rear discs were solid... When looking at the overall vehicle spectrum, few rear discs are vented...and those that are usually come on specialized applications...very high performance or very heavy duty.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Judging by the outrageously high pricing (starts at 49k?) Honda doesn't want to sell very many of these. For what appears to be a mainstream luxury car I am puzzled by the strategy..


I agree; Acura is content with leaving this a low-volume seller (though I'm sure they'd care for a few more sales than the RL generated). I don't, however, see this as a mainstream luxury car. It comes (or will come, by the end of the year) with technology unavailable elsewhere. The rear steering is one such item now. The electronic hybrid/AWD setup will be another.

The $64,000 question (quite literally) is, will people find those things interesting enough to buy the car? For that, I guess we'll have to wait to see.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: gofast182
How in the heck can you compare a normal luxury sedan to niche cars like that? As I said, the problem wasn't that the RL was a niche vehicle, it was marketed poorly (barely at all) and it had poor rear seat legroom for buyers to take grown family members or business associates around with them.


First, I disagree that the RLX is a "normal luxury sedan". Acura clearly isn't intending it to be a run-of-the-mill copy of a Lexus ES or BMW 5er. Second, I wasn't comparing the RLX to something like a Prowler at all. I was simply stating that sales numbers don't necessarily indicate the unique- or niche-appeal of a car, whatever kind of car that may be.

Toyota sells more Camrys than Chevrolet sells Corvettes. That certainly doesn't mean that the Camry is a more desirable car, at least to some people.

I look at the RLX like I look at Infinity's older Q-series cars. They were never high sellers, but they usually included something cool that very few other cars had, like Nissan's HICAS rear steer system. To me, the RLX gets back to the classic Honda flavor; there are a couple or three things under the hood that you can't necessarily see from the surface that makes the car handle better. That's what Honda used to be about. And with the new Accord and Acura MDX both losing weight and driving better than their previous models, I have high hopes that Honda is returning to that way of thinking.

 

[Mykl]

I don't understand all the questions concerning value with this car. It seems on par, or better equipped than many competitors it has at that price.

 

[rjundi]

In the end what matters with these luxury type vehicles is if they turn a profit or breaking even selling them even in low #'s.

The Big Three spent years selling vehicles in large #'s losing money hand over fist. Finally that tide is turning for them.

Honda has the volume and profit nailed. I think Acura is their experiment they can play around with. Unfortunately Acura is not getting the hits with one key exception their volume leader and likely profit maker the Acura MDX which is really good for what it is.

 

[MrHorspwer]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Solid rear discs are very much standard in the industry. My family has owned countless vehicles with rear disc brakes, and none were vented in the back. Going back to 1992 and Ford with our Crown Vic (our '92 Mustang 5.0 had drums!). Most of the Jeeps had/have rear discs (none of which were vented), our minivan's rear discs were solid, both of our current cars' rear discs are solid, both of my Cadillac's rear discs were solid... When looking at the overall vehicle spectrum, few rear discs are vented...and those that are usually come on specialized applications...very high performance or very heavy duty.


From where I sit, I see the following cars with vented rear rotors: 2013 Cadillac XTS, 2013 Cadillac ATS, 2013 Chevrolet Malibu, and 2014 Chevrolet Impala.

Seriously. A Malibu has vented rear disc brakes and the RLX doesn't. It's not 1992 anymore.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
From where I sit, I see the following cars with vented rear rotors: 2013 Cadillac XTS, 2013 Cadillac ATS, 2013 Chevrolet Malibu, and 2014 Chevrolet Impala.

Seriously. A Malibu has vented rear disc brakes and the RLX doesn't. It's not 1992 anymore.


I don't understand why this is a sticking point. What are you doing with your cars where this is an issue?

 

[gofast182]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: gofast182
How in the heck can you compare a normal luxury sedan to niche cars like that? As I said, the problem wasn't that the RL was a niche vehicle, it was marketed poorly (barely at all) and it had poor rear seat legroom for buyers to take grown family members or business associates around with them.


First, I disagree that the RLX is a "normal luxury sedan". Acura clearly isn't intending it to be a run-of-the-mill copy of a Lexus ES or BMW 5er. Second, I wasn't comparing the RLX to something like a Prowler at all. I was simply stating that sales numbers don't necessarily indicate the unique- or niche-appeal of a car, whatever kind of car that may be.

Toyota sells more Camrys than Chevrolet sells Corvettes. That certainly doesn't mean that the Camry is a more desirable car, at least to some people.

I look at the RLX like I look at Infinity's older Q-series cars. They were never high sellers, but they usually included something cool that very few other cars had, like Nissan's HICAS rear steer system. To me, the RLX gets back to the classic Honda flavor; there are a couple or three things under the hood that you can't necessarily see from the surface that makes the car handle better. That's what Honda used to be about. And with the new Accord and Acura MDX both losing weight and driving better than their previous models, I have high hopes that Honda is returning to that way of thinking.

Thanks for the clarification, when you put it that way it makes a lot more sense.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
From where I sit, I see the following cars with vented rear rotors: 2013 Cadillac XTS, 2013 Cadillac ATS, 2013 Chevrolet Malibu, and 2014 Chevrolet Impala.

Seriously. A Malibu has vented rear disc brakes and the RLX doesn't. It's not 1992 anymore.


Our 2011 Chevy 1500 truck at work has rear drums. Seriously. Every other work truck we have (including our '04 F-250 and '05 F-150) have rear discs. It's not 1992 anymore.

But the rear drums work effectively for Chevy, and that's the key. It's designed as a system and it works.

Solid discs work, too. Vented discs have more cooling capacity, but if that extra capacity is never needed, never reached, it's...well...unused capacity (and wasted weight).

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
From where I sit, I see the following cars with vented rear rotors: 2013 Cadillac XTS, 2013 Cadillac ATS, 2013 Chevrolet Malibu, and 2014 Chevrolet Impala.

Seriously. A Malibu has vented rear disc brakes and the RLX doesn't. It's not 1992 anymore.


I don't understand why this is a sticking point. What are you doing with your cars where this is an issue?


He is DRIVING them. A solid disc is a sign of cheapness, as well as lacking fade resistance. If you drive hard this could be an issue.

This car can be optioned up to a 70k price tag. I expect more than rear wheel steering for that kind of money!

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
He is DRIVING them. A solid disc is a sign of cheapness, as well as lacking fade resistance. If you drive hard this could be an issue.

This car can be optioned up to a 70k price tag. I expect more than rear wheel steering for that kind of money!


You own an SRT8 and you're going to nit pick signs of cheapness in other cars? I love SRT8s, but seriously?

This car isn't going to have brake fade issues even when driven hard on the street unless you're trying to drive it as fast as possible down the side of a mountain.

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

I think they need to fire their design team. It looks more bland than a Camry.

And if the brakes work well then what does it matter that the rear aren't ventilated?

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd

It comes (or will come, by the end of the year) with technology unavailable elsewhere. The rear steering is one such item now. The electronic hybrid/AWD setup will be another.

The $64,000 question (quite literally) is, will people find those things interesting enough to buy the car? For that, I guess we'll have to wait to see.


Well, here is 2013 Lexus GS350:
Proper big brakes for such a big, luxury car, with proper rear wheel drive.

Acura's offerings are not cutting edge at all, but they still want an arm and a leg for the badge. I drove in co-workers Acura RDX in the back seat and was pretty much appalled by the cheap, hard plastic that was there. Fit and finish wasn't that great either.
I'm not sure where your technology comment comes from

Rear wheel steering and vented disks.

Lexus GS350 suspension walk around

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
I think they need to fire their design team. It looks more bland than a Camry.

And if the brakes work well then what does it matter that the rear aren't ventilated?


Because if you make multiple stops from high speed you're likely to experience brake fade. But you have to be pushing a car really, really hard over for an extended period of time. It's basically a non-issue if you're buying a street car, even if you're using the car for a bank heist and need a high speed getaway car.

 

[DuckRyder]

I don't think the target demographic for this is BMW or Infinity. Perhaps Mercedes, Lexus, Lincoln and Caddy.

The brakes will be perfectly adequate for the intended purpose and if you try to track the thing I suspect the brakes will be the least of your concerns...

I actually find it amazing that the base price has only risen about $5000.00 - 6000.00 in 17 years.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Regarding the Lexus' rear steering referenced above...Lexus is using a hydraulic rack-based rear steering. Unless they have designed theirs differently, an inherent limitation with this type of system is that the toe change at one wheel produces the opposite toe change at the other wheel. In other words, if the system toes the left wheel in 2 degrees, the right wheel will toe out 2 degrees (or if not by the same amount, by a multiple of the same amount). This works for a steering system. But that's all it can be.

The uniqueness of Acura's design is that each wheel's toe can be adjusted dynamically and independently. It can toe the left in 2 degrees and the right out 2 degrees to steer the rear. But it can also toe both wheels in by a certain amount to gain stability under braking. To my knowledge, that's a rather unique design, and not one shared by anything else you can buy today.

Regarding the brakes, what surprises me are the comments regarding the rear brakes, and not the single-piston front calipers. Both of our SUVs (costing half as much as this RLX) use dual-piston front calipers. Our CR-V's brakes come from the Odyssey; they're designed for a much larger vehicle and have plenty of reserve capacity. So why did the RLX get single-piston front calipers? To me, that's the real question about the brakes.

 

[MrHorspwer]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd

Regarding the brakes, what surprises me are the comments regarding the rear brakes, and not the single-piston front calipers. Both of our SUVs (costing half as much as this RLX) use dual-piston front calipers. Our CR-V's brakes come from the Odyssey; they're designed for a much larger vehicle and have plenty of reserve capacity. So why did the RLX get single-piston front calipers? To me, that's the real question about the brakes.


Great point too.

Compared to the XTS I mentioned earlier (with vented rear rotors), the XTS front rotors are 1.5" larger than the RLX and are clamped by a four-piston fixed Brembo caliper.

That's a radical difference in hardware for two very dimensionally similar cars. In FWD form, both weigh about 4,000 lbs. and both have about the same horsepower. Granted, the XTS is available in AWD (which is heavier), but the RLX will also be available in AWD later this year, correct?

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
I think they need to fire their design team. It looks more bland than a Camry.

And if the brakes work well then what does it matter that the rear aren't ventilated?


That means they work well ONCE! The principle advantage to ventilated rotors is fade resistance. Think long downhill mountain road...

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Regarding the brakes, what surprises me are the comments regarding the rear brakes, and not the single-piston front calipers. Both of our SUVs (costing half as much as this RLX) use dual-piston front calipers. Our CR-V's brakes come from the Odyssey; they're designed for a much larger vehicle and have plenty of reserve capacity. So why did the RLX get single-piston front calipers? To me, that's the real question about the brakes.


Since my fleet vans had single piston front brakes with nearly 10k GVWR's I can assure you that a single piston can easily generate the clamping forces required.

But it is another sign of obvious cost cutting.