2012 Prius C

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Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
Hyundai solved the "battery replacement" problem in their hybrid. All new sonata hybrid batteries have lifetime replacement. gotta love how Hyundai addressed that. now if only their hybrids got over 50 mpg

For the original owner.
 
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
Hyundai solved the "battery replacement" problem in their hybrid. All new sonata hybrid batteries have lifetime replacement. gotta love how Hyundai addressed that. now if only their hybrids got over 50 mpg

For the original owner.


Exactly.
Also how is that solving the problem? If anything it confirms what has been said for years that indeed there is a problem, but EV supporters and automakers try to play it down.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Basically, I don't think the warranty costs necessarily means what you think it means.


According to my insurance agent the rates on car warranties are based on predicted claims, period. They are generally moneymakers for sure, but they do not "make up" a rate. They calculate it very carefully.

The dealers do mark these warranties up, and excessively IMO, but the numbers tell you something whether you want to admit it or not.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: JOD
Basically, I don't think the warranty costs necessarily means what you think it means.


According to my insurance agent the rates on car warranties are based on predicted claims, period. They are generally moneymakers for sure, but they do not "make up" a rate. They calculate it very carefully.

The dealers do mark these warranties up, and excessively IMO, but the numbers tell you something whether you want to admit it or not.


Sorry, I simply don't believe that's the only factor, or that the dealers and mfg are maintaining identical margin on all policies. Ultimately, they're going to charge what the market will bear for the policy. That doesn't mean they "make up" the numbers; after all they have to cover costs--but it doesn't mean that it's necessarily representative of claims.

The longest term warranty offered by Toyota of which I'm aware is 8 years/120K. The hybrid components are already warrantied for 8 years/100K (at a minimum!). So I'm supposed to believe that there's a high incidence of hybrid component failures (high enough to justify the increased warranty cost) all between 100-125K? (despite the fact the there is almost no anecdotal evidence of batteries failing that early?). Sorry, I don't buy it, nor do I believe that the cost of the extended warranty accurately reflects an increase in incidence of claims (or even total dollar expenditure, which is a different issue).

When you consider that the hybrid components are already under warranty, it's really not reasonable to believe that they're not making more margin on extended Prius warranties IMO.
 
BTW, just for laughs I looked online for extended warranties on new Toyotas and compared a Corolla to a Prius. For the max coverage, 8 years, 125K, the Prius warranty was 1,600 versus 1,100 for the Corolla.

Keep in mind, I live in a Carb state so that the hybrid components are already covered for 10 years, 150K. Also keep in mind that the battery packs and some other hybrid components are EXCLUDED from the extended warranty. Am I really supposed to believe that they aren't making more margin dollars on the Prius warranty?
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic
You should become an authorized dealer for Reinvolt or Battery Boy and you can see this as a potential profit opportunity.
grin.gif



Thanks for the HOT TIP!!
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ

Prius is hardly proven.


Ya, sure, 15 years later and still not good enough for you?

As for the battery cost, $2,000 OEM, hundreds of bucks used, or under $100 fixed DIY, it's much cheaper than than auto tranny with similar life expectancy. I don't see a big deal. Even if (big if) it fails at 200,000 miles and replaced with new, that is 1 cent per mile while hybrid can save you easily 10 cents a mile in fuel cost. Do the math!

The hybrid bashing will never stop.

Wake up to a new reality. Shortage of oil and popular electric cars (out of necessity) coming soon.
 
It came up in another post that the Prius C only has a 9 Gal. gas tank. For those who drive a lot, that's way to small IMO.
 
I've been reading a few road tests of the Prius C. The results seem to be mixed. I'm curious as to how the car DRIVES...enough acceleration (99 hp COMBINED gas/electric), handling, steering feel, etc.? I never had occasion to drive the current generation Prius but did test the previous (2004-09) model and it was a mix...decent ride, "arcade video" steering (why does Toyota DO that?), mediocre heater in cold weather (test drove in the winter). I know that mpg is the car's main purpose but must they be lousy to drive as a tradeoff? With gas prices increasing and considering how much I drive for my job (35,000 miles or more annually) I'm getting to the point of considering a hybrid but don't want to be stuck in something that's slow, noisy and cold in the winter.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: KrisZ

Prius is hardly proven.


Ya, sure, 15 years later and still not good enough for you?

As for the battery cost, $2,000 OEM, hundreds of bucks used, or under $100 fixed DIY, it's much cheaper than than auto tranny with similar life expectancy. I don't see a big deal. Even if (big if) it fails at 200,000 miles and replaced with new, that is 1 cent per mile while hybrid can save you easily 10 cents a mile in fuel cost. Do the math!

The hybrid bashing will never stop.

Wake up to a new reality. Shortage of oil and popular electric cars (out of necessity) coming soon.


I think you have to wake up because electric car is not a necessity and will not reduce fossil fuel usage. But it will allow better control of the masses.
Oil shortage, where are you getting this [censored] from? And apparently I'm the one that has to wake up
lol.gif
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: KrisZ

Prius is hardly proven.


Ya, sure, 15 years later and still not good enough for you?

As for the battery cost, $2,000 OEM, hundreds of bucks used, or under $100 fixed DIY, it's much cheaper than than auto tranny with similar life expectancy. I don't see a big deal. Even if (big if) it fails at 200,000 miles and replaced with new, that is 1 cent per mile while hybrid can save you easily 10 cents a mile in fuel cost. Do the math!

The hybrid bashing will never stop.

Wake up to a new reality. Shortage of oil and popular electric cars (out of necessity) coming soon.


I hesitate to bring this up, but I do have a point to make.

These DIY individual cell replacements are not a good thing. This is the very expensive version of "mixing and matching" old batteries with new batteries. The graph of capacity of the Prius battery cells over time do not have a slope of 0. That is, the capacity of a 5 year old Prius cell may be 50-60% of original. Adding in new cells individually is a recipe for overcharging and venting of other cells since the charging circuit has no way of looking at individual cells.

I'm not saying people aren't getting away with it, but the risk of issue is extremely high.

As far as a hybrid saving you 10 cents per mile on gas, that's simply not possible unless you're going from something that has extremely poor fuel economy. Our cars average 11 cents per mile and they are not geared towards fuel efficiency. Even my 400 hp, V8 car only costs 16 cents/mile.
 
Gas is something like $3.80 up here (I don't follow, I buy D2--which is like $4.12, but again I don't follow that either). At 50mpg it's 7.6cents/mile. 17.6cents/mile would be 22mpg.

If you save 5 cents/mile (that is the diff between 30 and 50mpg) you'd save $5k over 100kmiles, or $7.5k over 150k, or (drum roll please) $10k over 200k. Ignoring the fact that gas prices are likely to rise, it seems that, if one is going to keep the car long enough, the battery replacement plus extra cost of the vehicle has to come out of the $5-10k savings.

The Prius c is basically a high end Yaris, no? Which means a good $5k over that, in order to go from 40mpg to 50mpg? Give or take? Sounds like a dubious winner. Then again, if one wants to a) save the planet, b) has a heavy city drive which favors hybrid, c) has a small area to park in, or d) just wants it, then Prius c is hardly that bad.

Beats me. If I had to buy today, that is, if I totaled out my VW, I might be tempted. If only it had a larger fuel tank... Otherwise, my VW is paid off. I'm guessing it'd be cheaper to buy a second VW for when the first was broken, on a per-mile basis, or per-year basis.

It does seem like fuel cost is a more minor issue for most people, compared to vehicle depreciation. I guess most people write it off as a different catagory: they are bound and determined to spend $x for a vehicle, but no more than $y for fuel. Then again, this battery griping is a prime reason why: no one wants to keep a vehicle past 150k, which is when all this repair stuff crops up. At which one could have two vehicles; but then I think it becomes a dubious savings (two older vehicles versus one car payment).
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ


I think you have to wake up because electric car is not a necessity and will not reduce fossil fuel usage. But it will allow better control of the masses.
Oil shortage, where are you getting this [censored] from? And apparently I'm the one that has to wake up
lol.gif



Thanks for this response. I now understand why you have some a clear and unreasonable bias against hybrids, and why you consider this "unproven technology". Your agenda is now a lot more clear.
 
Not only is that a ridiculously biased assertion, but the facts clearly refute it.

There is not a shortage of oil. Sorry.

You would seem to me to be the one with the agenda of selling a car that has extremely limited appeal.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: KrisZ


I think you have to wake up because electric car is not a necessity and will not reduce fossil fuel usage. But it will allow better control of the masses.
Oil shortage, where are you getting this [censored] from? And apparently I'm the one that has to wake up
lol.gif



Thanks for this response. I now understand why you have some a clear and unreasonable bias against hybrids, and why you consider this "unproven technology". Your agenda is now a lot more clear.


Of course I am biased. When my tax money goes to support electric cars and hybrids I will be biased. When an HOV lane is given to single occupant hybrid and electric vehicles not to solve congestion problem but to project a message, or an agenda, I will be biased. When wind and solar farms die the moment tax subsidies dry out, I will be biased. When everything is done to hide problems that EV's pose but everything burning oil is automatically projected as evil, I will be biased. So yes, I'm biased.

Agenda? Don't you have to be in a position of power or influence to have one? I'm just posting my biased opinions, that's it.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Not only is that a ridiculously biased assertion, but the facts clearly refute it.

There is not a shortage of oil. Sorry.

You would seem to me to be the one with the agenda of selling a car that has extremely limited appeal.


Um...huh?

His claim is that hybrid cars (and fuel efficient cars) are some sort of government conspiracy. That's ridiculous. So is the notion that oil is a finite resource. Good luck with that over the next 30 years as demand from China and India continues to increase exponentially.

I don't drive a Prius. My agenda is logic, and saying that Prius technology isn't proven is illogical, simple as that. It's certainly many other technologies which are currently in use (DI engines, 6 speed autos, etc).
 
Originally Posted By: cchase

I hesitate to bring this up, but I do have a point to make.

These DIY individual cell replacements are not a good thing. This is the very expensive version of "mixing and matching" old batteries with new batteries. The graph of capacity of the Prius battery cells over time do not have a slope of 0.


Studies has been done on that and published too: http://researchcommons.waikato.ac.nz/bit....pdf?sequence=1

I prefer that over some speculation.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Of course I am biased. When my tax money goes to support electric cars and hybrids I will be biased.



How are your tax dollars going to support the Prius C?
 
Originally Posted By: cchase

As far as a hybrid saving you 10 cents per mile on gas, that's simply not possible unless you're going from something that has extremely poor fuel economy. Our cars average 11 cents per mile and they are not geared towards fuel efficiency. Even my 400 hp, V8 car only costs 16 cents/mile.


I went from corolla 28MPG to prius 56MPG, city only, heavy AC use. Hence the ~10c/mile difference at current gas prices.

You may want to recalculate your 11c/mile as it doesn't add up at current gas prices.
 
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
It came up in another post that the Prius C only has a 9 Gal. gas tank. For those who drive a lot, that's way to small IMO.


Prius C is a small CITY car. Regular Prius or different car alltogether is better suited for long distance hwy driving.
 
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