2012 Mustang GT w- Oil Jets; Heavier Viscosity OK?

[OilQuestions]

After much searching on the net regarding this including this site, I've yet to find a hard engineering response that guarantees compatibility with no adverse affects for increasing the weight of my engine oil which is 5W-20 for my 2012 Mustang GT with oil squirters.

1.) My Mustang is supercharged & Dyno'd at 705 hp for the previous owner. I've owned it for less than 2,000 miles and want to get my first oil change.

2.) I understand some people are speculating that the only reason Ford went with 5W-20 was due to the CAFE rubbish.....smart marketing decision if so, however they are also aware of warranty issues if something breaks, that being said I see for the 5.4 500GT Engine they are using squirters, and heavier oil....it is supercharged, but its a totally different engine. Squirters could accommodate that 5W-50....I am looking for facts, not opinions, nor "experiential theology" as it were, you know the "I experienced no issues (yet) so it must be so!" speculation...a truth does not equal THE truth, and I wish to not risk my money on such.

3.) Is there a Ford determined safe range for which oils will be fine long term in this engine with oil squirters?

So, does anyone who is an authority at Ford, or a seriously connected factory race mechanic/builder understand these differences to which I am an ignoramus, and can give ayes or no as to if a 5W-30 or even 5W-40 will be OK with the tolerances, internal valves, sensors and all that jazz, as well as not create greater pressure/heat due to the squirters not being made for the heavier grade.

I appreciate your time and diligence folks, and to unleashedbeast for his many informative contributions on this forum and others.

Cheers!

 

[d00df00d]

to BITOG!

Excellent questions, and props for having good standards of evidence.

Interested to see if anyone will claim the level of expertise you're asking for. :]

 

[onemig]

The oil jets are factory installed am I correct?

I am not an expert by any means but would just like to give my 2 cents. From what I know, the Boss 302 Mustang basically has the same exact engine as your GT but takes 5W50 instead of 5W20.

Hopefully Bdcardinal will see this and enlighten both of us.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Operating difference between aa KV of 8.5 and 14 cSt is minimal.
You notice oil vis when pouring it "cold" where the cSt is 70-140.

What does the SC manufacturer recommend? You are increasing load on the engine components exponentially and would need an increased margin of safety.

 

[CharlieBauer]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
props for having good standards of evidence.


Spoke too soon. See his second thread. 540rat alert.

 

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: OilQuestions
3.) Is there a Ford determined safe range for which oils will be fine long term in this engine with oil squirters?
The problem with your question is that you'll never get any major manufacturer to admit to any such thing as they are, in a sense, forced to recommend 5W-20 or suffer financial repercussions.

 

[OilQuestions]

Thanks for the welcome!

Regarding the oil jets, yes they are factory installed.

Good observation on the Boss Mustang. It has different cylinder heads, that uses a stronger allow and altered ports, increased lift on the camshafts, larger intake valves, race spec bearings, and a baffled oil pan that holds. 0.5 liters more juice....that being said, Wikipedia says that the oil squirters were deleted on the Boss in 2012....complicate matters much Ford? (laugh) But yes, it does run the heavier oil from what I have read.

 

[OilQuestions]

Kenne Bell Supercharger employee said per a phone call a couple days ago..... "Our products are designed to be used with a stock car; use what oil the factory recommends."

Mine is the Ford Racing brand.

 

[Rand]

So does the engine explode when you cold start it?

5w20 at 40c is much thicker than 5w50 at 100c.
and then you have a 5w20 at 0C vs 5w50 at 100c.

What oil temps are you seeing. I would want a thicker oil if you are seeing high oil temps.

if you just putt-putt around town and occasional short on-ramp blast.. dont see any need at all for thicker oil.(well maybe 5w30 700hp and 5w20....)

If you are going to track it or do anything that requires prolonged periods of high HP operation.. you will want to either go thicker or keep the oil temp under control.

Sure going to thick can be detrimental.. but usually major engine damage is either from too thin at very high oil temps.. or too thick at very cold temps.. both of which are easy to avoid.


Ford CAN NOT tell you to use thicker oil.. they can only recommend the oil that was used for EPA testing.

 

[OilQuestions]

Expound on that comment please. I smell a rat....pun fully intended.

My entire reason for creating an account and posting a question is to elicit a response and consult with RKI's and experts on this subject matter to get answers to my questions. Your simple post leaves much to be desired due to lack of meaningful content, and does not help answer my question at all.

The whole reason people have intelligent dialog is to learn. If you have something meaningful to add that will help, by all means post.

If not.....move along, get me?

 

[Camprunner]

I have a stock 2013 GT and I run 5w30 and for no other reason then personal preference there are many GT owners that do. Do you know if the oil pump gears were updated to forged units when the supercharger was installed? If not I would look into it they are borderline ok stock but many modded GT owners have fallen victim to them falling when modded.

 

[Torrid]

Yeah if your temps and pressure are good I don't think it's worth changing. I thought I knew better running 10w-30 non energy conserving conventional in my Jag which shouldn't matter at 30-40 degrees. The first thing I noticed going to a 5w-30 synth? My warm up times greatly reduced, at least 5 minutes sooner in my morning drive. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself. I was starting to think I had another thermostat on its way out.

 

[OilQuestions]

Originally Posted By: Rand
So does the engine explode when you cold start it?

5w20 at 40c is much thicker than 5w50 at 100c.
and then you have a 5w20 at 0C vs 5w50 at 100c.

What oil temps are you seeing. I would want a thicker oil if you are seeing high oil temps.

if you just putt-putt around town and occasional short on-ramp blast.. dont see any need at all for thicker oil.(well maybe 5w30 700hp and 5w20....)

If you are going to track it or do anything that requires prolonged periods of high HP operation.. you will want to either go thicker or keep the oil temp under control.

Sure going to thick can be detrimental.. but usually major engine damage is either from too thin at very high oil temps.. or too thick at very cold temps.. both of which are easy to avoid.


Ford CAN NOT tell you to use thicker oil.. they can only recommend the oil that was used for EPA testing.


Again, I understand the legal ramifications about that, however this car has oil jets. The purpose of these on this particular model is to help heat the oil quicker and to provide better cooling at operational temperature. Thermodynamics, hydrodynamics and all that good stuff. However on the cold start with the slightly thicker oil, on the 2011-2012 Mustangs with these particular size whatever they are of oil jets, is not indicative of compatibility with whatever size are used in OTHER Ford engines.

At the end of the day, its my $$ on the line. I find it quite interesting that Kenne Bell directly said to me, that the products they design are for FACTORY STOCK applications and they do not recommend using a heavier oil even for high horsepower hard use driving....I asked word for word and got the same reply. NOT FORD! (Sounds a little like a Donald Trump reply) hahaha

Seriously though, one must seek out truth in every category; so Ford may not disseminate full info and engineering findings due to [censored] politics and fear of financial capital reduction, no big deal. Someone who understands these things with this particular car, HAS to know about compatibility. Again, myself and others who are guessing and having some good assumptions only is spinning tires.

A Surgeon could literally show you how to do an appendectomy in 15 minutes.....no big deal, lets share that knowledge! Everyone can do appendectomies now! Problem is.....here it comes... is what to do when something goes WRONG.....thats where the years of other study, training and knowledge come into play. Make sense?

Just looking for a concrete answer for this specific car with the oil squirters. I'm fully aware of the ability ob being able to go up/down with viscosity with impunity (largely) based on use and temperature, just as you folks here are. My case is just enough different to warrent proper oversight and understanding that I don't have yet, and most here likely don't as well. It's not common knowledge, and it was only made like this 2 years....If I had a 2013 I would be out driving in my heavier oil fed car right now rather than typing.

Thanks all!

 

[OilQuestions]

I'm not sure, as I don't have full build/tune info other than what I see on the car and was told by the dealer who traded it from the prior gent.

That is a very good point, and I will research that as a preventative measure. Thanks for bringing it to my attention; I really appreciate it.

 

[4WD]

Ok, I started to feel disqualified despite running viscous fluid models in another life - but trying to help:
Causes for residual pressures are inside diameter, length of same, flow rate, density, and finally viscosity - which is why folks tend to see minor pressure increases with these viscosity changes...(all else tends to be fixed)
So I'd just monitor pressures when you step up grades -
Specific to piston squirting- since a "nozzle" does not involve length (just ID) ...minor resultant change if a tad bit of flow goes elsewhere ... bearings are pretty restrictive- so a hair more flow could go up top - but you have good film in that next grade up.
Anyway, lots of engines have this feature and people step up a grade and never look back.

I am confused about the range of oils in the thread - 30's and now 0w40's handle some serious engines.
PS: Shannow had recently posted (charts) where density would have a greater impact than viscosity ...

 

[Camprunner]

The odds of an oil related failure is extremely low so to be safe run the 20 weight oil for say 4,000 miles then send it off to have it tested and see how it looks.

 

[OilQuestions]

Yes, I ordered a kit from Blackstone Laboratory actually. Good advice! Thanks!

 

[OilQuestions]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Ok, I started to feel disqualified despite running viscous fluid models in another life - but trying to help:
Causes for residual pressures are inside diameter, length of same, flow rate, density, and finally viscosity - which is why folks tend to see minor pressure increases with these viscosity changes...(all else tends to be fixed)
So I'd just monitor pressures when you step up grades -
Specific to piston squirting- since a "nozzle" does not involve length (just ID) ...minor resultant change if a tad bit of flow goes elsewhere ... bearings are pretty restrictive- so a hair more flow could go up top - but you have good film in that next grade up.
Anyway, lots of engines have this feature and people step up a grade and never look back.

I am confused about the range of oils in the thread - 30's and now 0w40's handle some serious engines.
PS: Shannow had recently posted (charts) where density would have a greater impact than viscosity ...



Good info, thanks for sharing. I'm planning to get a pressure gauge put in, as well as a wide band air/fuel also. This car came as a total sleeper. I've no info on the tune but it feels solid. The background of the man who owned it prior was very assuring too. Eventually I will have it put on a dyno and have another reputable tuner look at it. Hopefully I get the oil thing sorted soon. Right now I will get the oil in presently drained and tested, and in the interim enjoy a 5W-20 until I get solid on if a 5w-30 will gel.

Yes, 5w-30's and 5w-40's can and do handle serious HP. Awesome how tech evolves. Everything from extraction of raw materials, synthesizing of the chemicals, to the machines that process it all up until end use. Wow!

 

[4WD]

That would work - just decide when to record pressure and temp for relative comparison ... apples/apples
I'd even stay with the same oil filter to keep everything honest ...

 

[kschachn]

I smell something too.

No offense of course, but you've been around here before, right?

Originally Posted By: OilQuestions
Expound on that comment please. I smell a rat....pun fully intended.

My entire reason for creating an account and posting a question is to elicit a response and consult with RKI's and experts on this subject matter to get answers to my questions. Your simple post leaves much to be desired due to lack of meaningful content, and does not help answer my question at all.

The whole reason people have intelligent dialog is to learn. If you have something meaningful to add that will help, by all means post.

If not.....move along, get me?