2011 Mustang GT/V6= Awesome power!

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: rudolphna

Wow, the V6 is just as fast as the current GT. Haha, GM and Chrysler.... Lot of catching up to do.
Hmmmm makes you wonder why G.M. and Chrysler are and have been second rate mfgs.It is easy to sell [censored] when money is easy and the money is free "refi the house"


It's amazing how a single magazine article can change the tides. Until this year, Ford was chasing the Camaro. No 300 HP V6 in 2010, no 400 HP V8 in 2010, no 6-speed transmission in 2010, garbage fuel economy in 2010, solid-axle rear in 2010 (oops, that's still there in 2011). Basically, in 2010 it got a boob job in the form of a pretty exterior refresh, but still wouldn't put out.

Say what you will, but if I were a Ford fan, I'd be pleased as punch that GM came out with the new Camaro since it made my 2011 Mustang so much better. The Challenger wasn't competition; the Camaro is. Then again, if I bought a 2010 Mustang before Ford announced the changes for 2011, I would be UPSET!



We had IRS during the SN95/New Edge era in the Cobra. This includes the 03/04 Termi, which kicked the last Camaro in the [censored] on its way out the door.

IRS left when they went S197, which is leaps and bounds better than the platform it replaced, IRS or not.

We had a 500HP V8 as far back as 2005. It is called the Shelby.
We had the 6-spd transmission in 2003/2004 in the Cobra. It is also in the Shelby.

The F-body has come and gone, and now has come again. The Mustang remained throughout. Despite its apparent shortcomings, it has out-sold the entire F-body lineup for decades, and why it walked it to its death bed come the 2002 model year.

Why GM revived it still puzzles me. The one at our local dealership has been there at least half a year now. The Ford dealer has sold at least 20 Mustangs that I know of in that time frame. Probably more.

The Camaro fills a niche that isn't there. Unlike the Corvette, which has always had appeal and a loyal following.

During the last generation, the Firebird/Trans-Am was the FAR better looking car. It looked mean. The Camaro looked like a Catfish.

vs

 

[OVERKILL]

BTW, I LIKE the Trans-Am/Firebird. I've always thought they were really neat looking cars! Pontiac really was GM's "performance/youth" brand. And they drove it straight into the ground.

I do not fault the platform. I fault GM for being unable to sell it and putting too much focus on the ugly car.

This guy:

And this guy:

Were where it was at in late 2002.

 

[Ike_Clanton]

I think it comes down to the fact that Ford has typically understood the segment better and given buyers in this segment more of what they want.

There are precious few years of Mustang/Camaro/Firebird sales where I wouldn't have chosen a Mustang (assuming you overlook the pathetic Mustang II years.) I say this as someone with solid Oklahoma-born redneck credentials, though I haven't had a mullet hairdo since I was 10.

Mom does still have a C4 in the driveway, though.

 

[MrHorspwer]

Still talking about the 03/04 Cobra? That must have been a heck of a good car... or the one that replaced it was pale in comparison.

The Cobra and Shelby cars aren't the lifeblood of the Mustang line though, and you know this. The life of the Mustang is that of a V6 in the hands of a secretary. It's been that way from the begenning. Special models with big power are a nice side dish, but the main course is putting out what appeals to women. Maybe that's what Ford does really well?

Quote:
There are precious few years of Mustang/Camaro/Firebird sales where I wouldn't have chosen a Mustang (assuming you overlook the pathetic Mustang II years.)


1987-1993 are the only years that I really think the Mustang had an edge. I love '65-66 Mustangs, but they started down the path of fat and bloated in 1967, getting more bloated every year until it led to the dark 1971-1973 cars. Some folks love the 1967-69 styling of the Mustang, and they are iconic cars, but I just can't love them over the earlier Mustangs.

Through the 1970's, the Trans Am was still kicking [censored], offering a 455 as late as 1976 and a 400 into 1979. They were an emissions-choked V8, but come on, we're comparing to the Mustang II here!

Gen 3 Camaro/Firebird? OK, Ford takes this one hands down.

Gen 4 gets confusing. Ford got caught flat-footed. Downrating your V8 from 215 to 205 HP while GM introduces a 275 HP competitor? Seriously? Getting busted overrating the power your most high-performance car? The 03/04 Cobra was a great car (though I was partial to the 2000 Cobra R with it's delicious N/A 5.4L), but overall, I don't think Ford had the arsenal to compete when the LS1 came out.

I'm not especially fond of the 2010 Camaro, specifically in how fat it is. Hoqever, I don't know that I could make a concious choice to buy a Mustang, not being a fanboy of either car, considering it's lack of power (in comparison) and lack or a modern suspension (keep drinking the Ford Kool-Aid, but know that the bean counters killed IRS in the Mustang).

I hope 2011 is a different story. I hope Ford hits a knockout with the Mustang and I hope GM comes back with more power and less weight in 2012. I hope this goes on forever...

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I rather buy a used 545i for 18K than a new 'stang or 'Maro. I do like HO v6 though - IMO better engines than most V8. The old Yamaha SHO v8 would have been nice in a lightweight SVO type stang with a 6 speed. Still, Pony cars should be dead and buried by now. Old tech, heavy slogs. This is from a guy who owned 5 stangs and '69 428 SCJ fairlane and '67 396 SS chevelles. BTDT, children.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
... I don't know that I could make a concious choice to buy a Mustang, not being a fanboy of either car, considering it's lack of power (in comparison) and lack or a modern suspension (keep drinking the Ford Kool-Aid, but know that the bean counters killed IRS in the Mustang).
These are primarily point and shoot drag cars, not road racers. The IRS would be flying apart in hard drag launches - and I sure as heck don't want to be trying to keep that punk aligned, either. I hate IRS in most apps - though it was nicely done in my (purchased used) '98 BMW M-Roadster.

 

[ALL_OUT_LS1]

Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Originally Posted By: ALL_OUT_LS1
I'm not buying those numbers either.......



With a name like ALL OUT LS1 I'm not surprised you don't believe a Ford can be that fast.


I don't have an LS1 anymore. My current project is a 302 Ford powered Miata. I'm not biased, just saying those numbers are a bit far fetched along with current factory horsepower ratings.

 

[kkreit01]

^ because you have put one on your own dyno? Have you read the articles?

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: ALL_OUT_LS1
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Originally Posted By: ALL_OUT_LS1
I'm not buying those numbers either.......



With a name like ALL OUT LS1 I'm not surprised you don't believe a Ford can be that fast.


I don't have an LS1 anymore. My current project is a 302 Ford powered Miata. I'm not biased, just saying those numbers are a bit far fetched along with current factory horsepower ratings.



So a 3.7L V6 that makes 307HP, and a 5.0L V8 that makes about 400.... Those are hard to believe? Why, because Chrysler and GM can't manage that kind of power density? (400HP 6.2L V8 anyone?)

 

[ALL_OUT_LS1]

I bet the cars they used for testing were unusually healthy. This trick has been used before! It will only be a matter of time before an actual production model 2011 Mustang is dynoed at the shop where I frequent. We'll see the real numbers then. There was a V6 Camaro that laid down 237 hp last time I was there and it was rated at 300 hp. Factory numbers are overrated.

 

[oilboy123]

Flywheel horsepower or Rear wheel?

Looks like Ford will have replaced just about every engine in the line up in the next year or so.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: ALL_OUT_LS1
I bet the cars they used for testing were unusually healthy. This trick has been used before! It will only be a matter of time before an actual production model 2011 Mustang is dynoed at the shop where I frequent. We'll see the real numbers then. There was a V6 Camaro that laid down 237 hp last time I was there and it was rated at 300 hp. Factory numbers are overrated.


Biiiiig difference between horsepower at the wheels, and horsepower at the crank. My cavalier for example, is rated for 120HP crank, but only about 85, 90 of that gets to the wheels.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

THANKS A LOT OVERKILL!! You owe me a new keyboard, as that pic made me spray iced tea all over this one!

That is too funny, and I've never seen that one before (but I've seen others almost as funny).

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Still talking about the 03/04 Cobra? That must have been a heck of a good car... or the one that replaced it was pale in comparison.

The Cobra and Shelby cars aren't the lifeblood of the Mustang line though, and you know this. The life of the Mustang is that of a V6 in the hands of a secretary. It's been that way from the begenning. Special models with big power are a nice side dish, but the main course is putting out what appeals to women. Maybe that's what Ford does really well?

Quote:
There are precious few years of Mustang/Camaro/Firebird sales where I wouldn't have chosen a Mustang (assuming you overlook the pathetic Mustang II years.)


1987-1993 are the only years that I really think the Mustang had an edge. I love '65-66 Mustangs, but they started down the path of fat and bloated in 1967, getting more bloated every year until it led to the dark 1971-1973 cars. Some folks love the 1967-69 styling of the Mustang, and they are iconic cars, but I just can't love them over the earlier Mustangs.

Through the 1970's, the Trans Am was still kicking [censored], offering a 455 as late as 1976 and a 400 into 1979. They were an emissions-choked V8, but come on, we're comparing to the Mustang II here!

Gen 3 Camaro/Firebird? OK, Ford takes this one hands down.

Gen 4 gets confusing. Ford got caught flat-footed. Downrating your V8 from 215 to 205 HP while GM introduces a 275 HP competitor? Seriously? Getting busted overrating the power your most high-performance car? The 03/04 Cobra was a great car (though I was partial to the 2000 Cobra R with it's delicious N/A 5.4L), but overall, I don't think Ford had the arsenal to compete when the LS1 came out.

I'm not especially fond of the 2010 Camaro, specifically in how fat it is. Hoqever, I don't know that I could make a concious choice to buy a Mustang, not being a fanboy of either car, considering it's lack of power (in comparison) and lack or a modern suspension (keep drinking the Ford Kool-Aid, but know that the bean counters killed IRS in the Mustang).

I hope 2011 is a different story. I hope Ford hits a knockout with the Mustang and I hope GM comes back with more power and less weight in 2012. I hope this goes on forever...


See, now I love 69 and 70, LOL

And yes, the VAST majority of Mustang sales have been the "slow" option. And it has kept the icon alive for 46 years now.

I was a BIG fan of the Cobra-R.

 

[ALL_OUT_LS1]

Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Originally Posted By: ALL_OUT_LS1
I bet the cars they used for testing were unusually healthy. This trick has been used before! It will only be a matter of time before an actual production model 2011 Mustang is dynoed at the shop where I frequent. We'll see the real numbers then. There was a V6 Camaro that laid down 237 hp last time I was there and it was rated at 300 hp. Factory numbers are overrated.


Biiiiig difference between horsepower at the wheels, and horsepower at the crank. My cavalier for example, is rated for 120HP crank, but only about 85, 90 of that gets to the wheels.


Thanks for the lesson on horsepower there rudolphna! I had no idea there was a biiiiig difference!

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Originally Posted By: Michael_P
IRS or not.....Does it hook up? .94g lateral????


No IRS. Solid rear axle.


A nice write-up for you IRS guys...

"Also improved for 2011 is the GT's handling. 2010 was something of a breakout year for the Mustang, as Ford finally committed itself to building a Mustang that goes left and right as well as it goes straight. Not only is the 2011 Mustang GT happy to turn into a corner, once you're flirting around with the apex you won't find yourself making loads of corrections. Put another way, the suspension is able to handle whatever you throw at it, and the steering feel is good enough that you only have to measure and cut once. As far as the never ending live rear end vs. independent suspension argument goes, we're saying the following: The 2011 Ford Mustang GT sports the very best solid rear axle in the world. We're rather have the best solid axle than a mediocre multi-point rear. Hint, hint, Chevy. Nuff said.

The bottom line is this: Ford is done messing around. With the release of the 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 there are no more "Yeah, but..." reasons to buy any other pony car. Only serious Mopar-philes would choose the drastically more expensive and substantially worse Dodge Challenger SRT-8 over the Mustang GT. Aside from looks, we can't think of a single area where the similarly priced but slightly more expensive Chevy Camaro SS beats the Mustang. Speed, handling, soundtrack, brakes, interior (the GT is actually creeping into Audi levels of interior sophistication – look at those seats!), fit and finish – you name it, the Mustang's the superior sports car.

Speaking of Audi, the 5.0 makes the 354-hp S5 look like an overpriced slowpoke. We've driven both cars in anger and the 2011 Mustang GT is not only faster, but is actually rear-wheel drive, not a FWD platform fitted with Quattro all-wheel drive. Want us to go even further? We'd prefer the Mustang GT to a BMW 650i. Sure, the BMW has dash leather and... iDrive. But (again), the GT makes more power (the 650i manages 360 hp), handles better and is quieter unless you're really belting the throttle. Also, Sync's a whole lot better than iDrive, even the much improved new iDrive. Not only that, but the GT's new 5.0-liter V8 engine is in another league than (previous) competitors like the Nissan 370Z and Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8. Getting the point? In 2011, the Mustang GT is the car to beat. Welcome back, 5.0."

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/29/2011-ford-mustang-gt-first-drive/

 

[LS2JSTS]

Wow....I think that guy likes the new Mustang.

Me agree.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

Mr. Horsepower, I couldn't have said it better myself.

Oh, and for the haters, the new Camaro isn't an F-body. GM made the last F-body in 2002. If you added nitrous oxide or forced induction to the Mustang GT that year, you might keep up with a Z-28 or a Trans Am, but you would be penalized even worse by Ford's poor gas mileage. But back to the subject. I'm not sure what niche the new Camaro fills - size and weight of a 4-door family sedan with 1/2 of a back seat.

I suspect the reason more of the new Camaros aren't selling is because the dealers are doing what they did with the GTO - putting additonal dealer markup (ADM) on the cars. Only an idiot would pay over list for an American car. The only American vehicle I'd personally consider paying over invoice on would have been the Ford GT, or the Cobra-R.

And I hate to say it, but I think I'd pick the 2011 Mustang over the Camaro. And I'll probably have to add heads, cam and headers to my current Z-28 to keep talking trash to my Ford buddies.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Thank god the Ford Fanboys don't run the automotive world! Then we'd all have to drive Mustangs!

Seriously, it is nice to finally see some N/A horsepower from Ford. I have seat time at a road course in a 2010, and it was very sweet. I agree they don't need IRS to make it handle.

But I still passed the poor guy at will.

But the number one problem for me is that EVERYONE will have one.

Of course, Ford will make 7000 "special" packages so yours can be "rare".

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Thank god the Ford Fanboys don't run the automotive world! Then we'd all have to drive Mustangs!


No way, the Ford guys wouldn't have as much fun if they didn't have LS3s and 6.1 Hemis to smack around.