2011 Hyundai Sonata -- 3 cylinders dropped!!!

[69Torino]

The picture doesn't really illustrate how thin the rod bearing was, the edges were sharp and both bearing shells were on the same side. One had rolled under the other and the bearing had squished out the sides of the rod. Both bearing shells are there, one on top of the other. Was not able to separate them. Sent them back to Kia like that. If I had to guess, it didn't start knocking that day. The customer likely drove it with a rod bearing clearance issue for a while. It's under warranty so whatever, ya know?

 

[OilUzer]

Based on what I've read with Turbo, LSPI is a common failing factor and with Non Turbo, the rod bearing ... or the combo can be a possibility as well. meaning if the lspi doesn't get you then the rod bearing will.

Know someone with small turbo engine veloster (sp?) ... Hyundai replaced the engine under warranty.

 

[69Torino]

LSPI is very hard on rod bearings. The ignition event happens too soon, as the piston and rod are traveling upwards, and forces the entire mass to change direction instantly. Very abrupt change in direction and inertia. Imagine someone smashing the piston with a sledgehammer as it's still coming upwards on the compression stroke. Not good.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by 69Torino
Sent them back to Kia like that. If I had to guess, it didn't start knocking that day. The customer likely drove it with a rod bearing clearance issue for a while. It's under warranty so whatever, ya know?

A change in engine noise can be your cars way of telling you something's not right. How many people, like in the example you provided, just ignore such sounds and then one day experience catastrophic failure and stand there wondering why it happened? If I had to guess I'd say the "sudden and catastrophic" failure types has to be a rare occurrence with modern engines and oils. In the +30yrs of owning cars I've been fortunate enough not to have one suddenly go kaputz on me but I have had engine issues (misfiring, HG, vacuum leaks, WP, poor quality fuel etc) and in almost every instance there are always signs something's amiss.

 

[OilUzer]

@69Torino,
Is it possible that lspi weakens an already weak rod bearing (or a poorly designed rod/bearings) and it causes rod bearing failure.

Can an engine survive lots of lspi or mild lspi events? Can average driver notice an lspi event?

 

[69Torino]

Originally Posted by OilUzer
@69Torino,
Is it possible that lspi weakens an already weak rod bearing (or a poorly designed rod/bearings) and it causes rod bearing failure.

Car an engine survive lots of lspi or mild lspi? Can average driver notice an lspi event?

I would surmise it to change the physical shape and thickness of the upper bearing shell as it makes physical contact with the crank journal, assuming the oil barrier fails due to the intense force of preignition. Much the same way as you would slowly change the shape and thickness of a penny as you hammer it against an anvil. Preignition is not a new thing, but smaller and lighter internal engine components are. Rods are lighter, bearing shells are thinner, piston skirts are shorter, all in the name of friction reduction and reciprocating mass weight savings, chasing fuel economy and power output.

An engine can absolutely survive preignition, but you could also survive a 10 story fall or carbon monoxide poisoning, though the outcome may not be desirable. I've heard and felt LSPI in many cars and SUV's, just mash the throttle pedal at low speed under high load (up a hill) especially in a manual transmission car. An automatic transmission can downshift to lighten the load on the engine, though Kia and Hyundai 6 speed automatics will actually hold the gear you select in manual mode. GDI Cars with some miles on them and 87 in the tank will rattle like rocks in a coffee can. You can feel the power reduction as the ECU pulls ignition timing out, reacting to the Knock sensors' input.

 

[Doublehaul]

I blew the motor in a Hyundai rental car with less than 15k on the odometer. Was trying to pass someone up a grade from low speed. Put the hammer down heard a couple raps and boom...car was lawn furniture.

Talk about change of plans on a trip! Rental agency didn't have any more cars! Had to wait two and half days for a replacement! Terrible customer service

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by Doublehaul
I blew the motor in a Hyundai rental car with less than 15k on the odometer. Was trying to pass someone up a grade from low speed. Put the hammer down heard a couple raps and boom...car was lawn furniture.

Talk about change of plans on a trip! Rental agency didn't have any more cars! Had to wait two and half days for a replacement! Terrible customer service

What year - what model and what engine was that Hyundai?

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by 69Torino
Sent them back to Kia like that. If I had to guess, it didn't start knocking that day. The customer likely drove it with a rod bearing clearance issue for a while. It's under warranty so whatever, ya know?

A change in engine noise can be your cars way of telling you something's not right. How many people, like in the example you provided, just ignore such sounds and then one day experience catastrophic failure and stand there wondering why it happened? If I had to guess I'd say the "sudden and catastrophic" failure types has to be a rare occurrence with modern engines and oils. In the +30yrs of owning cars I've been fortunate enough not to have one suddenly go kaputz on me but I have had engine issues (misfiring, HG, vacuum leaks, WP, poor quality fuel etc) and in almost every instance there are always signs something's amiss.



I would normally agree with this, however a mechanic I used to work with at Goodyear had his Santa Fe seize up with zero warning on the highway, just like many other reports I've read online. He thought it was an electrical problem because it just shut off doing 60mph. They put a large breaker bar on the engine and it wouldn't budge.

It had 100k miles, Hyundai covered it.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by 69Torino
Sent them back to Kia like that. If I had to guess, it didn't start knocking that day. The customer likely drove it with a rod bearing clearance issue for a while. It's under warranty so whatever, ya know?

A change in engine noise can be your cars way of telling you something's not right. How many people, like in the example you provided, just ignore such sounds and then one day experience catastrophic failure and stand there wondering why it happened? If I had to guess I'd say the "sudden and catastrophic" failure types has to be a rare occurrence with modern engines and oils. In the +30yrs of owning cars I've been fortunate enough not to have one suddenly go kaputz on me but I have had engine issues (misfiring, HG, vacuum leaks, WP, poor quality fuel etc) and in almost every instance there are always signs something's amiss.



I would normally agree with this, however a mechanic I used to work with at Goodyear had his Santa Fe seize up with zero warning on the highway, just like many other reports I've read online. He thought it was an electrical problem because it just shut off doing 60mph. They put a large breaker bar on the engine and it wouldn't budge.

It had 100k miles, Hyundai covered it.

I said it was rare not that it didn't happen at all.

 

[Doublehaul]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by Doublehaul
I blew the motor in a Hyundai rental car with less than 15k on the odometer. Was trying to pass someone up a grade from low speed. Put the hammer down heard a couple raps and boom...car was lawn furniture.

Talk about change of plans on a trip! Rental agency didn't have any more cars! Had to wait two and half days for a replacement! Terrible customer service

What year - what model and what engine was that Hyundai?


16 Elantra...engine size unknown. Was a rental

 

[nicholas]

Originally Posted by skyactiv
Time for me to be rude. The engine probably died younger than necessary due to our addiction to 87 octane. The crap tune Hyundai and others program to make turbo vehicles survive on 87 octane is absurd.

Most vehicles come with a stated warranty. Sometimes a vehicle manufacture will extend the warranty on certain issue(s) beyond the original warranty when bad press arises.
The new trend is more and more people are thinking the vehicle manufacture should warranty certain issues seemingly well beyond the written warranty.

Realistically? The car is 9 model years, a Hyundai and should be sent to the junk yard unless Hyundai will actually throw in a new engine.


I don't think you really know what you are talking about........................
This issue has zero to do with 87 octane.
With direct injection and precise engine timing - 87 octane is not a problem for ANY manufacturer, let alone Hyundai.

 

[ChrisD46]

**Current owner of 2017 Sonata LTD. 2.4L GDI non - turbo (signature with 32K miles) - my maintenance plan is below :

- Only use Top Tier 87 octane gas (2.4L non - turbo runs fine with no pinging or knocking that I can hear or detect ) .

- Use a bottle of Techron every 4K miles (just before the oil change) .

- With the exception of the current 5W20 experiment - I use 5W30 D1 / Gen 2 rated synthetic oil with Fram Ultra oil filter - OCI is 4K miles (suburban , large city driving = severe duty more or less) .

- Use CRC Intake Valve Cleaner every 10K to 12K miles right before an oil change.


*My only concern I am monitoring with the 2.4L GDI engine is I am getting some oil consumption (roughly 2/3rds of a quart of oil per OCI of 4K miles) - not sure if this is normal with GDI engines or not ?

There you go - the above is my regiment to do what I can to help this engine have a long life (outside of manufacturing defects) ... Hyundai / Kia experts and mechanics feel free to shoot holes in my above regiment . Also , as far as 87 octane goes in a Hyundai 2.4L non turbo GDI engine goes : If I can not detect any pinging or knocking going on - do I still have anything to be concerned with my choice of 87 octane rating ?

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Originally Posted by nicholas
.
With direct injection and precise engine timing - 87 octane is not a problem for ANY manufacturer, let alone Hyundai.


Meh, not really. The Germans still mostly use 91 except for entry level cars, and even that only started three or four years ago. Guess which manufacturers have pretty much no concerns with LSPI?

If manufacturers had their way, 91 would absolutely be the minimum octane available.

 

[Whammo]

2012 Kia 2.4 GDI, 105,000 miles so far and running perfectly. Change the oil every 3-4k and top it off every 1,500 miles. I have used everything from OEM filters to Fram Ultras to the cheapest Supertech filter at Walmart and noticed NO difference in the way it sounds or runs. Have used everything from the cheapest Supertech conventional to Valvoline Modern engine. Again noticed no difference in performance at those short OCIs. Who knows, it could crater tomorrow. But even if it did, considering how cheap you can buy these cars it's still not a bad risk.

 

[nicholas]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by nicholas
.
With direct injection and precise engine timing - 87 octane is not a problem for ANY manufacturer, let alone Hyundai.


Meh, not really. The Germans still mostly use 91 except for entry level cars, and even that only started three or four years ago. Guess which manufacturers have pretty much no concerns with LSPI?

If manufacturers had their way, 91 would absolutely be the minimum octane available
------How do you "know" this?

Many German engines are run to much higher stresses than the 2.0's at Hyundai.

Look at Honda's turbo's - - 87 in everything except the type R civic.
Germans and engine longevity are not really a good standing ground. Audi piston rings and BMW head gaskets.............

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Originally Posted by nicholas
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by nicholas
.
With direct injection and precise engine timing - 87 octane is not a problem for ANY manufacturer, let alone Hyundai.


Meh, not really. The Germans still mostly use 91 except for entry level cars, and even that only started three or four years ago. Guess which manufacturers have pretty much no concerns with LSPI?

If manufacturers had their way, 91 would absolutely be the minimum octane available
------How do you "know" this?



Because I read, and stuff.

https://www.autonews.com/article/20...o-industry-lobbies-for-95-as-new-regular

From that article:

Quote
GM, Ford Motor Co. and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, working with the United States Council for Automotive Research, are seeking just one grade of fuel: 95. That would eliminate today's grades, generally 87 octane for regular, 88-90 for midgrade and 91-94 for premium. Even though premium gasoline costs about 50 cents more per gallon than regular, Nicholson says moving to 95 octane would cost consumers far less.


They are talking 95 RON, which is 91 octane.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by 69Torino
Sent them back to Kia like that. If I had to guess, it didn't start knocking that day. The customer likely drove it with a rod bearing clearance issue for a while. It's under warranty so whatever, ya know?

A change in engine noise can be your cars way of telling you something's not right. How many people, like in the example you provided, just ignore such sounds and then one day experience catastrophic failure and stand there wondering why it happened? If I had to guess I'd say the "sudden and catastrophic" failure types has to be a rare occurrence with modern engines and oils. In the +30yrs of owning cars I've been fortunate enough not to have one suddenly go kaputz on me but I have had engine issues (misfiring, HG, vacuum leaks, WP, poor quality fuel etc) and in almost every instance there are always signs something's amiss.



I would normally agree with this, however a mechanic I used to work with at Goodyear had his Santa Fe seize up with zero warning on the highway, just like many other reports I've read online. He thought it was an electrical problem because it just shut off doing 60mph. They put a large breaker bar on the engine and it wouldn't budge.

It had 100k miles, Hyundai covered it.

I said it was rare not that it didn't happen at all.


I'm saying it's rare on most vehicles but not at all on this particular engine. More people have a complete seizure without warning than rod bearing noise before it happens.

 

[caprice_2nv]

The engine problem was on our local CBC radio station again this morning. One guy replaced his engine twice then got the recall notice right after. They denied his warranty because he didn't keep most of his oil change record's. Long story to it but they are still getting media attention locally from time to time.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by 69Torino
Sent them back to Kia like that. If I had to guess, it didn't start knocking that day. The customer likely drove it with a rod bearing clearance issue for a while. It's under warranty so whatever, ya know?

A change in engine noise can be your cars way of telling you something's not right. How many people, like in the example you provided, just ignore such sounds and then one day experience catastrophic failure and stand there wondering why it happened? If I had to guess I'd say the "sudden and catastrophic" failure types has to be a rare occurrence with modern engines and oils. In the +30yrs of owning cars I've been fortunate enough not to have one suddenly go kaputz on me but I have had engine issues (misfiring, HG, vacuum leaks, WP, poor quality fuel etc) and in almost every instance there are always signs something's amiss.


Totally agree that the general public is NOT attuned to the sounds, and the changes in sounds. I guess I am a Luddite... I drive with my radio off, typically hehe.