2008 Subaru Sti & 05 Outback XT UOA w/High Copper

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I just rec'd three UOAs from Blackstone, 2 for a 2008 Subaru Sti, and one for a 2005 Outback XT 2.5 turbo. I kept meaning to send them in....but by the time I got around to it, I had another sample for the Sti, so they all went in together. No oil consumption for either vehicle, no blow-by and all around nothing to suggest anything's wrong, other than the high copper. Sti - Stock daily driver, commute 70/30 freeway/city, oil - 0W30 German Castrol Synthetic for both tests. No track time on any of these OCI. Outback XT 2.5L turbo - stock, daily driver, 70/30 freeway/city, turbo replaced at 51k due to a clogged turbo oil-feed line. 5W30 Mobil 1 oil. Never been on the track. [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] So, my quesiton is...what might attribute to the high copper? I searched and haven't found much info outside of Blackstone's copper description. "Copper: Brass or bronze parts, copper bushings, bearings, oil coolers, also an additive in some gasoline engine oils." Does German Castrol and/or Mobil 1 have copper added? Any info or links would be much appreciated. I don't know if it's related...but here is another high copper test result from Blackstone, on the same test day 7/23/2009, and strangely enough it's within 6 lab numbers of my tests. '04 Subaru WRX STi w/High Copper Thanks for your help, Mike
 
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Previous to the turbo failure on the Outback, were you doing 10,000 mile oil changes? Interesting that silver did not spike, because it is supposedly a marker for turbo bearing failure.
 

Avant1

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The Outback isn't mine, but I believe the oil change intervals prior to the cooked turbo were around 7k miles (still too long for that engine). AFAIK, the 10k (and turbo failure)was the first OCI of such extended length. Unfortunately there aren't any UOA of the OB prior to the failure.
 
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The last result makes no sense whatsoever. GC 0w30 doesn't shear to 8.26! All the results are suspect and I would insist on a retest. Now, if they mixed up specimens you will never know. If the results are correct (#1+2), too much Cu and too much Pb.
 
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 Originally Posted By: Avant1
I believe the oil change intervals prior to the cooked turbo were around 7k miles (still too long for that engine). AFAIK, the 10k (and turbo failure)was the first OCI of such extended length.
What oils were used for those 7-10k OCI?
 
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 Originally Posted By: Avant1
Outback XT 2.5L turbo - stock, daily driver, 70/30 freeway/city, turbo replaced at 51k due to a clogged turbo oil-feed line. 5W30 Mobil 1 oil. Never been on the track.
So did the Outback always run M1 5W-30 prior to the clogged line? I just posted the other day that a couple of Subaru techs made those claims on nasioc on stock cars they've seen. -Dennis
 

JAG

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 Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
The last result makes no sense whatsoever. GC 0w30 doesn't shear to 8.26! All the results are suspect and I would insist on a retest. Now, if they mixed up specimens you will never know.
+1. UOA #1 also cannot be GC because the additive package is not that of German Castrol. Only UOA #2 appears to be of GC.
 
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I agree. Something is wrong here. We have 8 GC UOAs for the VW 2.0 FSI and all have over 400 ppm magnesium. Some of the OP posts have only 10ppm. Too large a discrepancy for casual error. Also, those 2.0 FSIs are as bad as it gets for shearing oils and the lowest GC viscosity is 9.61 of the 8 UOAs. The report with 3651 miles looks like GC but not the others. Here are the averages for the 8 GC UOAs in the 2.0 FSI: 1724 Calcium 566 Magnesium 919 Phosphorus 1150 Zinc Which is very, very close to the 3651 mile run. Did perhaps OP buy American made Syntec 0W30 instead of GC for some of the runs?
 

Avant1

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the extended oil changes on the Outback prior to the turbo failure were 5W30 Mobil 1. After further discussion w/the owner, I found out I was incorrect regarding the tested oil (in the Outback.) The oil tested was most-likely 5W30 Castrol GTX dino. There was question as to engine damage after the turbo failure, turbine shaft snapped sending some shrapnel into the intercooler, and dino was the inexpensive choice to fill a potentially dead engine. However, the 08 Sti had 0W30 German Castrol Synthetic for both. I am positive on the Sti's oil, b/c it is my daily driver, and I had a hellava time finding true German Castrol prior to the oil changes.
 

Avant1

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After taking into consideration mixed specimans...the OB test, and the 3429 from the Sti seem pretty close as far as additives. Now that I know the OB had dino in it... 3429 additives seem alot closer to dino additives rather than 0W30 GC of the 3651 test. I would LOVE to see the reports for the lab tests within a few of my tests. I seriously wonder if the vials got switched...say maybe somebody w/Dino ended up with a UOA that resembles OW30 GC?
 

Avant1

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 Originally Posted By: buster
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1811136 A lot of these Subaru engines show high Cu. They seem to have some issues with turbos.
LOL... those are mine as posted above, except for the first one (from an '04 Sti). It's interesting though, that the '04 Sti test was 6 lab numbers from mine...
 
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High copper is not unusual as a metal spike in these 2.5 liter turbo subies. I've seen it, as have many others. What IS unusual is the corresponding spike in lead and iron (the outback and the 3651 run on the STI). The STI didn't see a lead spike, but it's iron is out of whack compared to the first run and coming out of break-in and being on such a short run....nonetheless, Iron is funky and is within noise levels. On a Subie, personally, when I see a copper spike independent of other metals I think it's the oil cooler oxidizing a bit. No big deal.
 
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