2008 Liberty OLM Update.

[demarpaint]

I've written about the OLM in my wife's 08 Jeep Liberty before. Yesterday it indicated it was time to change the oil. What is puzzling this time is it might actually be correct. LOL Her driving conditions this OCI were the worst they've been since we bought the Liberty new back in December 2007. She lost her job due to CV19, so now the vehicle sees about 95% short trips, most averaging about 2 miles each way, vs. 20+ miles of traffic/highway runs. This time the OLM called for an OCI of 2,534 miles. The last two OCIs under much better conditions were 1,573 and 1,839. I've ignored the OLM since day one in both Jeeps and will continue to do so. Only this time it "might" actually be correct.

 

[IndyFan]

Wow, those seem short. I don't think even with short trips you'd need to go less than 3k or even 5k on a good synthetic. Maybe a used oil analysis would help you out. I'd get one at 3k. Has time been a factor? Maybe it comes up at the 6 month mark?

I've got an 08 Wrangler 3.8 and it always has come on right at 6k, which is its max. But I reach that max before 6 months and it does an 18 mile commute each way, so it doesn't get short tripped. And it rarely sits and idles.

How many miles on the vehicle? I think personally, I'd run M1 High Mileage 5w30 out to 5k or 1 year. What oil are you running now?

 

[Greasymechtech]

When an OLM calls for oil changes at 1573, 1839, and 2534, it MUST be right.

You need an engine timer to see how many hours she is driving.

I tracked time/miles on the wifes car monthly for a year and she averaged anywhere from 12mph to 18mph(few road trips) monthly. Even though severe service is 3750, I tend to change the oil/filter every 3k miles, averaging 200-250hrs per interval which is plenty for a full synthetic oil and full synthetic filters considering the engineering defects her vehicle engine has as features. No more weekend road trip getaways and could imagine how bad her average MPH is now. I doubt her mph is even in the teens since vacations has been sparse due to the plague flu released on the masses.

I think that if most calculated their average MPH or ran an engine timer, their extended oil change intervals would either disappear, or all those engine issues across all makes would more easily be understood.

 

[IndyFan]

OP, does it have remote start? Maybe Greasymechtech is onto something there with engine hours. Remote starts can add quite a bit and I think all the idling they cause can be hard on an engine and oil.

 

[demarpaint]

When an OLM calls for oil changes at 1573, 1839, and 2534, it MUST be right.

You need an engine timer to see how many hours she is driving.

I tracked time/miles on the wifes car monthly for a year and she averaged anywhere from 12mph to 18mph(few road trips) monthly. Even though severe service is 3750, I tend to change the oil/filter every 3k miles, averaging 200-250hrs per interval which is plenty for a full synthetic oil and full synthetic filters considering the engineering defects her vehicle engine has as features. No more weekend road trip getaways and could imagine how bad her average MPH is now. I doubt her mph is even in the teens since vacations has been sparse due to the plague flu released on the masses.

I think that if most calculated their average MPH or ran an engine timer, their extended oil change intervals would either disappear, or all those engine issues across all makes would more easily be understood.

UOA showed it is flawed with the 1839 and 1573 OCIs, both times I ran the oil to 6K miles and had life remaining according to TBN. II'll run the oil to 4K and decide if UOA is worth doing or not.

 

[demarpaint]

Delete. Double post.

 

[IndyFan]

UOA showed it is flawed with the 1839 and 1573 OCIs, both times I ran the oil to 6K miles and had plenty of life remaining according to TBN. II'll run the oil to 4K and decide if UOA is worth doing or not.

Then I'd go at least 6k. Do you have a lifetime powertrain warranty on it? In late 07 it was an incentive across Chrysler's product line. I've still got it on my 08 Jeep, so 6k is the max for me. If not, I'd probably stay with the 6k, increase it a bit to 7-9k, or just change it once or twice a year. But that's just me. Do whatever makes you feel comfortable and confident.

What oil were you running when you got the UOA? Does your engine use any oil? If not for the warranty, my 3.8 would probably go through 4.5 to 5 quarts every 6k miles, so theoretically, it would change itself as I add it! Lol!

 

[Kuato]

Sounds like your Liberty's OLM is the same as the one we had on ours - junk.

Likely calibrated SUPER conservatively for cheap conventional, for soccer moms that never open the hood and use quiklubes.

As with all OLMs, it is a computer algorithm that estimates oil condition based on driving habits, coupled with a counter of some sort, and does exactly Zero actual oil testing.

You're wise to go with UOA.

 

[RamFan]

Curious, have you discussed the ultra short OCI the OLM provides with FCA?

 

[demarpaint]

Then I'd go at least 6k. Do you have a lifetime powertrain warranty on it? In late 07 it was an incentive across Chrysler's product line. I've still got it on my 08 Jeep, so 6k is the max for me. If not, I'd probably stay with the 6k, increase it a bit to 7-9k, or just change it once or twice a year. But that's just me. Do whatever makes you feel comfortable and confident.

What oil were you running when you got the UOA? Does your engine use any oil? If not for the warranty, my 3.8 would probably go through 4.5 to 5 quarts every 6k miles, so theoretically, it would change itself as I add it! Lol!

I have the lifetime warranty, and did the Chrysler inspection to keep it valid twice. I'm also certain they'll figure a way out if I were to use it.

As I mentioned the driving pattern has changed drastically, and not for the better. That's why I found the OLM increased the OCI under worse conditions validating once again for me the OLM is useless. The data for the 6K OCI I was doing is no longer valid, so I'm going to play it safe and take a sample at 3K miles and base my new OCI on that. IMO the remaining TBN would not have given me enough to push the new driving conditions to 6K miles.

 

[demarpaint]

Curious, have you discussed the ultra short OCI the OLM provides with FCA?

I spoke with a friend who is a Jeep Chrysler A tech, and he agreed ignoring it was the way to go. Troubleshooting it would be time consuming, and costly. Certainly out of my wheelhouse for me to try and troubleshoot, and not worth $140/hour or more to pay a dealer to check. I also have my doubts they'd be able to fix it in all honesty.

I agree with @Kuato, the OLM Jeep used in this vehicle is junk.

 

[The Critic]

I spoke with a friend who is a Jeep Chrysler A tech, and he agreed ignoring it was the way to go. Troubleshooting it would be time consuming, and costly. Certainly out of my wheelhouse for me to try and troubleshoot, and not worth $140/hour or more to pay a dealer to check. I also have my doubts they'd be able to fix it in all honesty.

I agree with @Kuato, the OLM Jeep used in this vehicle is junk.

Other than flashing the applicable modules with the latest calibration (if one is available), there isn't anything to be troubleshooted.

The one in my truck is on-track for 10K OCI's. Short-trips or long, no difference.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Are the used oil analysis posted here?

 

[ofelas]

Mobil1 + a Fram UltraGard will convince that OLM to display 10k mile OCIs in short order, haven't you heard.

 

[Kuato]

Other than flashing the applicable modules with the latest calibration (if one is available), there isn't anything to be troubleshooted.

The one in my truck is on-track for 10K OCI's. Short-trips or long, no difference.

Right...so it's a counter. Not a "monitor". You'd certainly benefit from a couple of used oil analysis as well.

 

[The Critic]

Right...so it's a counter. Not a "monitor". You'd certainly benefit from a couple of used oil analysis as well.

Hard to say - there have been reports if it going to 0% in as low as 7-8k for the folks who tow.

This will be a low-mileage vehicle for me so the OCI's will probably be time-based, not mileage-based. I do believe in the value of inspecting vehicles 2x/yr for any issues, so the OCI's may be done at the same time.

 

[demarpaint]

Right...so it's a counter. Not a "monitor". You'd certainly benefit from a couple of used oil analysis as well.

Mine is not a counter, at least I don't think so. A few things to keep in mind, I bought this new. It was driven pretty much the same until CV-19. First OCI was tripped @ 3,445 miles, second at 10,356 miles, the third at 16,757 [total miles on the vehicle]. So the interval ranged from 3,445 miles to ~6,905 miles. Then again at 22,021 miles for a 5,264 mile OCI. That leads me to believe it is not a counter. Under similar driving conditions, pre CV-19 when it went out to lunch the OLM was triggering OCIs in the 1,800-2,500 mile range.

As I mentioned earlier I have UOA data, I'm contemplating new data since the usage has drastically changed.

 

[Kuato]

Hard to say - there have been reports if it going to 0% in as low as 7-8k for the folks who tow.

This will be a low-mileage vehicle for me so the OCI's will probably be time-based, not mileage-based. I do believe in the value of inspecting vehicles 2x/yr for any issues, so the OCI's may be done at the same time.

Well it certainly appears that there's an adjustment made while towing - possibly linked to tow/haul mode? We don't know unless we can talk to someone that wrote the software. Again, it's only an estimate, and a necessarily conservative one at that, of the oil's condition.

No matter though, without a used oil analysis the veracity of any OLM is suspect.

Not to be critical @demarpaint, but I'm surprised that with 15k+ posts you've started this most recent thread, it seems to be the same as the other two:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/olm-and-why-i-ignore-mine.316239/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/olm-screwed-up.329034/#post-5652319

Must be a worrying situation for you; the older the OLM the less accurate. While the precision of those algorithms are sure to improve over time, there's still no substitute for an actual analysis of the oil's condition, which you've done.

IMO everyone (or at least those here on bitog) should forget the OLM, reset when it squawks, and change oil by used oil analysis for their driving in their vehicle with their oil. One size does not necessarily fit all here.


To keep it all in one place:

Mine is not a counter, at least I don't think so. A few things to keep in mind, I bought this new. It was driven pretty much the same until CV-19. First OCI was tripped @ 3,445 miles, second at 10,356 miles, the third at 16,757 [total miles on the vehicle]. So the interval ranged from 3,445 miles to ~6,905 miles. Then again at 22,021 miles for a 5,264 mile OCI. That leads me to believe it is not a counter. Under similar driving conditions, pre CV-19 when it went out to lunch the OLM was triggering OCIs in the 1,800-2,500 mile range.

As I mentioned earlier I have used oil analysis data, I'm contemplating new data since the usage has drastically changed.

Yeah the Ford F150 has a counter, there's an algorithm involved in the Jeeps. Since driving habits have changed a lot, then it makes a lot of sense to do another used oil analysis in order to see the oil's condition. What does NOT make sense is slavishly following an OLM which you've proven inaccurate, and changing a quality oil after only 1500 miles.

 

[IndyFan]

I have the lifetime warranty, and did the Chrysler inspection to keep it valid twice. I'm also certain they'll figure a way out if I were to use it.

As I mentioned the driving pattern has changed drastically, and not for the better. That's why I found the OLM increased the OCI under worse conditions validating once again for me the OLM is useless. The data for the 6K OCI I was doing is no longer valid, so I'm going to play it safe and take a sample at 3K miles and base my new OCI on that. IMO the remaining TBN would not have given me enough to push the new driving conditions to 6K miles.

Depends on your dealer. At 116k mine put a new (factory reman) transmission in it when I asked if they could simply fix a rattle in 1st gear and an occasional (once every 3 weeks or so) popping out of 3rd gear. They even gave me a free loaner Jeep while they installed it. They also recently did a new water pump at around 142k or so and valve cover gaskets, too. No fuss at all. They've stood up to their end of the bargain on that warranty. So I wouldn't write it off like that, so I'd advise sticking to the manual on OCI's. I know darned well my 3.8 could go beyond 6k, but I'm keeping that warranty alive. It is good until the cost of the repair exceeds the wholesale value of the Jeep.

I'm assuming you have the 3.7. I've seen a good number of those get well past 200k miles, mostly in Commanders, but also in a couple Libertys. Keep with the warranty requirements and inspections and you might get a reman if it ever wears out.

 

[demarpaint]

Depends on your dealer. At 116k mine put a new (factory reman) transmission in it when I asked if they could simply fix a rattle in 1st gear and an occasional (once every 3 weeks or so) popping out of 3rd gear. They even gave me a free loaner Jeep while they installed it. They also recently did a new water pump at around 142k or so and valve cover gaskets, too. No fuss at all. They've stood up to their end of the bargain on that warranty. So I wouldn't write it off like that, so I'd advise sticking to the manual on OCI's. I know darned well my 3.8 could go beyond 6k, but I'm keeping that warranty alive. It is good until the cost of the repair exceeds the wholesale value of the Jeep.

I'm assuming you have the 3.7. I've seen a good number of those get well past 200k miles, mostly in Commanders, but also in a couple Libertys. Keep with the warranty requirements and inspections and you might get a reman if it ever wears out.

Hopefully I don't need to use it. My ace in the hole so to speak is making a change from an A-tech at Jeep to Ford so I'm a little less of an optimist when it comes to free extended warranty work. Also keep in mind NY dealers don't play as nice as other parts of the country.